Tourney Chop Karma and Takedown Brag (1 Viewer)

Trihonda

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I was playing in my weekly 20k tourney last night. It's filled with skilled players (some semi-pro), and a smattering of newer players. Last night was the largest field ever, 75 entries. Not bad for a weekly bar tourney.

We get to the final table (9-handed), and it pays top 8. I'm by no means a huge stack, but there are several shorter stacks on the bubble. I start my karma generating efforts by advocating the remaining players all pitch in the cover the bubble's buyin. We all agree to pay the bubble. It happens to be a good friend that busts first, so I feel good about getting him something for his 5-hour grind.

As the field withers down, I get heads up with the guy who's been steamrolling the field, and spent most of the tournament with a massive chip lead. This player and I know each other very well. He's a great guy, and he's loud and spirited at the table. He was one of the guys who worked tirelessly in the efforts to legalize poker in WI. Ultimately his efforts fell short, but he's certainly an ambassador for poker in WI. He certainly feels like he's a better poker player than I am, and he might be right (slight edge). He's definitely got me beat in the degen category.

Now, Mr. Poker ambassador has 700k, and I'm sitting on 1.2m. Nearly a 2-to-1 advantage. Blinds are at 20/40k. It's now past midnight, and I need to wake up at 5am for work... He knows this. I suggest an equity chop 50/50 to account for the fact I wouldn't mind sleeping, and that he's a solid heads up player. He says he wants the win, and won't chop, unless I give him the win and an extra $5... He cites my need to sleep time as why he's leveraging the extra $5. In principle, I was having a hard time offering up a 50/50 chop, and there's no way I'm giving him the win, and more money... Screw sleep!

I tell him (jokingly) "I have 1.2 million in chips, EFF you! Let's play". The rail and TD all chime in and wish ME luck, as a jab at the other guy for refusing a super fair chop and countering with what appeared to most as a quasi-insulting counter offer. Again, this is all done in fun, as we are all on good terms with each other.

Three hands later, I have QJ (in the BB) and raise to 3x after he limps. He calls. Flop comes QQJ (gin). I bet 125k, he calls quickly... Turn is a brick, I "give up" and check (I know my maniac agro opponent), This guys perception is that I rarely double barrel without solid holdings, so i took a stab at the flop, but once he called, I gave up.. He senses weakness and bets out for 125k, and I call. River is is another brick K, I check, and maniac bets 175, thus pot committing hismself, I shove, he calls with Qx. I win. $300 extra for the win vs chopping.

Not sure I can drink enough RedBull today...

Here's my stack at 750k. :)

IMG_0747.JPG
 
Boy you guys are rough. Let trihonda have his brag.
I like to hear a story where the guy who refused the generous chop gets screwed.
 
What a fish

Confirmed true story!


Can't believe he called his whole stack off with trip queens heads up.

Ya, not meant as a strat thread, but his kicker was weak. If I double/triple barreled this, I could see him maybe getting away from his hand. Ya, but probably not... I didn't actually put him as strong as a Q. I had blockers to his having one... And two on the board made that less likely.

I was hoping he had a hand like Jx which once I checked, he'd assume was good. As soon as he called my flop bet, I knew he had some piece of this, and would pounce if I checked the turn. It's his style. Very aggressive. Punish any sense of weakness. He does not "check back". Love it! If he had a Jx hand, and I triple/double barreled, I could certainly see him letting it go and leaving some chips on the table.
 
Boy you guys are rough. Let trihonda have his brag.
I like to hear a story where the guy who refused the generous chop gets screwed.

Lol, it's all good. I don't mind a little healthy ribbing.
 
"Super fair chop offer", my ass. He has 700K vs 1.2M and the blinds are 20/40K. He can still play a lot of poker with that stack and your stack is not insurmountable at all. If you lose 25% of your stack in a hand (not unreasonable) he has a slight chip lead.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh but I hate people that propose chops and then get indignant about it. I didn't play in the tourney to get heads-up and chicken out. I came to win and that means beating all of the other players. I wouldn't have asked for the extra money ($5 is nothing though) but asking for the win is completely reasonable since you were offering to quit and he was most decidedly not.

Cliffs: Keep chopping your way to freedom, bud.
 
I was playing in my weekly 20k tourney last night.
I assume you mean it's your weekly T20k tourney as the prize pool appears to be nowhere near the ballpark of 20k ;)
 
Sorry if this comes across as harsh but I hate people that propose chops and then get indignant about it.

I approach chops the same as running it twice. Whether we do it or don't, the decision shouldn't affect the mental part of my game.

As villain I could see either snap taking the chop or refusing it, even from the same opponent, depending on my mood or a host of other factors. If I knew hero was tired and wanted to get the tournament over with, I'm guessing I would lean toward playing it through.
 
Was there points or a trophy at stake here? What difference would the "win" make here?
 
I hate people that propose chops and then get indignant about it.

Feel free hate all ya want. Up to you.

As to being indignant, that's an interesting read on your part. All the players know each other very well, have no problem razzing each other.

I proposed a chop heads up. My propsal wasn't long winded or overly "pleady". I simply said "interested in a chop? Getting late, and even though Ive got a 2-1 Chip Advantage, I'd do 50/50". I was offering a chop, not saying I wanted to forfeit the game. The getting late thing also affects the dealer, the TD, and the venue, which stays open until we wrap up...

First,
Lol at your assertion that this isn't fair. We could argue all day, about what could have happened, or him possibly doubling up. There's always a risk. But it's just as likely I'd take his chips as well... An equity chop Facktor's in the chips currently in possession, not the chips that one might win or might not win. A straight equity chop, would have given me two thirds of the money up for grabs. However I was offering 50-50. If 50-50 isn't fair, what IS fair to offer my opponent, who is currently behind? Curious what your idea of a fair chop would be...?

Second,
Indignant? I've been known to offer up chops in tournaments, but I really could care less if people decide they want to play on or make a counter offers. It's never personal, it's just the freindly negotiation. I've never in my life been butthurt when someone has declined a chop. It's certainly within a players right to want to continue playing. No Big deal.

If you took my response to him as indignation, it was an LOL to his chop counter.

Hell, I could've walked into the pact poker room at the start of the night, and yelled "F you (Name)", and received rourous laughter from half the people playing.

There were a half dozen ppl on the rail, a dealer, and a TD, and none razzed him too much for his refusing to chop, but all said they were rooting for me after he countered.

After the game, my opponent shook my hand a half dozen different times, and repeatedly told me great play, without an ounce of malice in his voice. Had he won, there wouldn't have been an ounce of malace expressed towards him by me. It's all good.
 
Was there points or a trophy at stake here? What difference would the "win" make here?

No trophy or points. Just bragging rights, especially being the largest field on record.


What is a poker semi-pro anyway? Do they play PLO on the semi-pro circuit?

I don't know. A majority of these players are folks who play 3-5x/week, in bar tourneys and at one of two local casinos. Many also play most of the WPT, MSPT, APT, and other big tournaments in the WI, IL, IN, MN area (Midwest). A decent number of these guys spend an inordinate amount of time in Vegas, degening it up, and often enter the WSOP Main. These cats have way more time and money to expend gambling than me. When I say semi-pro, they might have part time jobs, but often get a lot of their income through poker.
 
Six handshakes, that seems like an awful lot of handshakes. Even though this isn't normal flu season, there've been some bugs going around, so make sure you use some Purell. Also, I've always wondered what the standard malice to ounce ratio is. I think its normally 3 malices per ounce, but maybe that is bumped up to 4 in an election year.
 
Chops are for cowards. Fuck chops.
Feel free hate all ya want. Up to you.

As to being indignant, that's an interesting read on your part. All the players know each other very well, have no problem razzing each other.

I proposed a chop heads up. My propsal wasn't long winded or overly "pleady". I simply said "interested in a chop? Getting late, and even though Ive got a 2-1 Chip Advantage, I'd do 50/50". I was offering a chop, not saying I wanted to forfeit the game. The getting late thing also affects the dealer, the TD, and the venue, which stays open until we wrap up...

First,
Lol at your assertion that this isn't fair. We could argue all day, about what could have happened, or him possibly doubling up. There's always a risk. But it's just as likely I'd take his chips as well... An equity chop Facktor's in the chips currently in possession, not the chips that one might win or might not win. A straight equity chop, would have given me two thirds of the money up for grabs. However I was offering 50-50. If 50-50 isn't fair, what IS fair to offer my opponent, who is currently behind? Curious what your idea of a fair chop would be...?

Second,
Indignant? I've been known to offer up chops in tournaments, but I really could care less if people decide they want to play on or make a counter offers. It's never personal, it's just the freindly negotiation. I've never in my life been butthurt when someone has declined a chop. It's certainly within a players right to want to continue playing. No Big deal.

If you took my response to him as indignation, it was an LOL to his chop counter.

Hell, I could've walked into the pact poker room at the start of the night, and yelled "F you (Name)", and received rourous laughter from half the people playing.

There were a half dozen ppl on the rail, a dealer, and a TD, and none razzed him too much for his refusing to chop, but all said they were rooting for me after he countered.

After the game, my opponent shook my hand a half dozen different times, and repeatedly told me great play, without an ounce of malice in his voice. Had he won, there wouldn't have been an ounce of malace expressed towards him by me. It's all good.

Why offer a chop at all? You knew how long the tourney would take. You knew you had to work in the morning.

It's not aimed just at you - I have never understood why people chop. I know mathematically if I was in his situation, it would've been "correct" for me to take the chop, but why even consider accepting or offering a chop when your goal at the outset of the tournament was to win? And if your goal was to make money and not necessarily win, then why not just play cash?

I also hate the idea of people rooting for someone when they don't take a chop. I've had about 40 people at Foxwoods give me shit for not accepting a 6 way chop when I had 75% of the chips in play. They changed their offer to an ICM chop and I still didn't understand it. I drove down there, sat there for 6 hours, grinded my fucking ass off, and now when I'm so close to winning I'm just going to go "Meh, OK, give me some money and let's call it a day".

(I thought you were being indignant when you wrote this:

"....jab at the other guy for refusing a super fair chop and countering with what appeared to most as a quasi-insulting counter offer"

If he had 60K at 20/40K blinds and you had 1.7M, then yeah, your offer was more than fair. That might be the only situation where I'd consider thinking about the possibility of accepting a chop, but even then it's a long shot.

Threadsaver - concatenates chops, tourney, wanting to win, best song ever, and hilarious comments inside the video.

 
Thought you had to go home and get to bed... how long did you stay afterwards for the guy to shake your hand six different times? Pretty sure I'd start getting uncomfortable at the fourth post game handshake whether he had malice in his voice or not :D
 
Six handshakes, that seems like an awful lot of handshakes. .

Lol, I thought so too... But when the "ambassador of poker" extends his hand, you shake it. Purell later.

Thought you had to go home and get to bed... how long did you stay afterwards for the guy to shake your hand six different times? Pretty sure I'd start getting uncomfortable at the fourth post game handshake whether he had malice in his voice or not :D

Ya, a couple times right at the table after the hand. Maybe again while waiting for payouts... Once/twice at the bar, as I passed him on the way out... Plus, nothing like a big win to repress that "I'm tired" feeling...
 
Lol, I thought so too... But when the "ambassador of poker" extends his hand, you shake it. Purell later.



Ya, a couple times right at the table after the hand. Maybe again while waiting for payouts... Once/twice at the bar, as I passed him on the way out... Plus, nothing like a big win to repress that "I'm tired" feeling...

SOHE World Champion > "AmbASSador of Poker"
 
I take chops at home to get to the cash game quicker.......but if there is no cash game :whistle: :whistling:

I sorta thought I'd be the same way, but once I've been grinding in a tourney for a couple hours, I wouldn't leave if the building caught on fire. I guess it's wanting to win at all costs versus settling and I'm not a settling kind of guy.
 
@bergs you play tourneys how you want. I'll play them how I want. I promise not to judge you on your views... If I'm playing a tourney, and decide I'd be willing to chop, that's up to me. I have my reasons. One, largest field ever, the event was running long. Two, I play to win, but also am part of a community. The TD, dealer, bar staff weren't pressuring us to finish, but if we could get everyone home sooner, I was cool with that. Might be silly reasoning to you, but it doesn't have to make sense to you. I was willing to play it out, and respect the opponents decision not to chop. The $5 more (being such a dumb amount) was just a dumb counter. It was an attempt to troll... Which made it funnier that I beat him 3 hands later.

You said that if the guy had 60k vs my 1.7m, then a 50/50 chop makes sense? I dint think that's in line with common chop logic, but if that's your "number", I respect that.
 
@bergs you play tourneys how you want. I'll play them how I want. I promise not to judge you on your views... If I'm playing a tourney, and decide I'd be willing to chop, that's up to me. I have my reasons. One, largest field ever, the event was running long. Two, I play to win, but also am part of a community. The TD, dealer, bar staff weren't pressuring us to finish, but if we could get everyone home sooner, I was cool with that. Might be silly reasoning to you, but it doesn't have to make sense to you. I was willing to play it out, and respect the opponents decision not to chop. The $5 more (being such a dumb amount) was just a dumb counter. It was an attempt to troll... Which made it funnier that I beat him 3 hands later.

You said that if the guy had 60k vs my 1.7m, then a 50/50 chop makes sense? I dint think that's in line with common chop logic, but if that's your "number", I respect that.

Sorry you can't take criticism on a brag thread, bro. I'll sit here and quietly clap for you and nod my head in appreciation of your boundless skill.

OK, I was lying. I'm definitely not fucking doing that.

I was actually asking why anyone would accept a chop if their goal was to win the tourney but nobody is answering.

Example - you went to the bar event. Did you want to win the tournament when you sat down or were you hoping to get HU and chop?

If the former, did you really think that the event wouldn't last long? You saw the number of entrants. You know going in that you're a member of the community - it's not like you sat down to play with semi-pro strangers and suddenly all your friends showed up and were like "hey, can I late reg?"

I just don't get it. I've never gone to a tourney in my life and NOT wanted to win and if I did I wouldn't sit down. I just don't understand the chop mentality.
 
Best thing about this thread so far is that it's reminded me of one of my all time favorite posts on any forum:

View: New Way to Insult People

I still howl laughing irl every single time I read that thread.
 

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