Cash Game Cash Games Offering Offering 50 BB (1 Viewer)

[MusicJunkie]

Hello all,

I apologize if this has already been covered... I'm new and taking a close look at my cash poker set.

Are cash games with 50 BB buy-ins still a viable game? I see 100 BB games are normally targeted but, for a micro-stakes game of a $5 dollar buy-in and big blind of 10 cents my set only produces a 50 BB game. Maybe this is okay for such a small buy-in. I could always add a 5th chip (in this case a $1 chip) to bring up the BB closer to the 100 mark... Is that commonly done?

Thanks, Neal

 

[JustinInMN]

If you have the players that want to play 50bb deep the. The game is viable.

The reason 50bb may be considered a "shallow" game is that it leads to too many all ins before the river.

My marks are like this.
Under 80 bb is shallow
80-150 bb is average
Over 150 bb is deep.

But those descriptions are all about how much "play" there is before stacks get short and all in is the only move left.

Now it is unclear what chips you have in your set now. For example if you have nickel chips, you could simply change the blinds to nickel-nickel and you are instantly 100bb deep. The small blind is commonly half the big blind, but it doesn't have to be so long as it is no more than the big blind.

 

[detroitdad]

I prefer 200 BB's. 50 is way too small for our group

 

[RichMahogany]

50 BB max=might as well play a tournament or just flip for stacks

 

[MusicJunkie]

If you have the players that want to play 50bb deep the. The game is viable.

The reason 50bb may be considered a "shallow" game is that it leads to too many all ins before the river.

My marks are like this.
Under 80 bb is shallow
80-150 bb is average
Over 150 bb is deep.

But those descriptions are all about how much "play" there is before stacks get short and all in is the only move left.

Now it is unclear what chips you have in your set now. For example if you have nickel chips, you could simply change the blinds to nickel-nickel and you are instantly 100bb deep. The small blind is commonly half the big blind, but it doesn't have to be so long as it is no more than the big blind.

If you have the players that want to play 50bb deep the. The game is viable.

The reason 50bb may be considered a "shallow" game is that it leads to too many all ins before the river.

My marks are like this.
Under 80 bb is shallow
80-150 bb is average
Over 150 bb is deep.

But those descriptions are all about how much "play" there is before stacks get short and all in is the only move left.

Now it is unclear what chips you have in your set now. For example if you have nickel chips, you could simply change the blinds to nickel-nickel and you are instantly 100bb deep. The small blind is commonly half the big blind, but it doesn't have to be so long as it is no more than the big blind.

 

[MusicJunkie]

If you have the players that want to play 50bb deep the. The game is viable.

The reason 50bb may be considered a "shallow" game is that it leads to too many all ins before the river.

My marks are like this.
Under 80 bb is shallow
80-150 bb is average
Over 150 bb is deep.

But those descriptions are all about how much "play" there is before stacks get short and all in is the only move left.

Now it is unclear what chips you have in your set now. For example if you have nickel chips, you could simply change the blinds to nickel-nickel and you are instantly 100bb deep. The small blind is commonly half the big blind, but it doesn't have to be so long as it is no more than the big blind.

Thanks Justin! That’s a great suggestion to make blinds equal to improve the BB level. Sorry for the previous reply… I‘m still figuring out the nuts and bolts of the site.

50 BB max=might as well play a tournament or just flip for stacks

Sorry… I’m a newbie… what does “flip for stacks” mean?

 

[JustinInMN]

50 BB max=might as well play a tournament or just flip for stacks

A very good point. A tournament by design goes from deep play to shallow play.

Sorry… I’m a newbie… what does “flip for stacks” mean?

If I can presume to answer, I think @RichMahogany means is that with shallow stacks there will just be a lot of situations where hands close in equity will just get all in it's almost like flipping coins

 

[RichMahogany]

Sorry… I’m a newbie… what does “flip for stacks” mean?

Going all in blind, pre flop.

Essentially like flipping a coin with your entire stack on the line

 

[MusicJunkie]

Going all in blind, pre flop.

Essentially like flipping a coin with your entire stack on the line

Okay... Thanks... Got it now!

 

[upNdown]

I used to play in a game that had limped along for years with people buying in for 40bb. Sure, after a few rebuys, they'd start rebuying for 60bb or 80bb. And yeah, I'd rather play at least 100bb deep like most people responding here. But the truth is that there are plenty of home games that play shallow. And deeper stacks only benefit better players. Better cash game players, that is. As somebody alluded to earlier, the majority of tournament play happens with stacks in the shallower neighborhoods. Hell, most cash game pros will tell you Phil Hellmuth doesn't know what to do with a stack over 100bb - they're kinda right, and he's kinda arguably one of the greatest tournament players ever.
I'm babbling on a bit here, but the point I'm trying to make is that there are plenty of different ways to play poker. So hell yes, you can do $5 buyins with 10 cent big blinds (though personally I'd knock it down to 5 cent big blinds as somebody else recomended.)

 

[Mojo1312]

Any game where the house isn't taking a rake and the players can be counted on to re-buy back in when felted is a viable game. I don't care if it's 20BB's, 40BB's or 100BB's. In the end it is about how much money gets on the table and the strength of the players that determines the profitability of the game.

 

[MusicJunkie]

I used to play in a game that had limped along for years with people buying in for 40bb. Sure, after a few rebuys, they'd start rebuying for 60bb or 80bb. And yeah, I'd rather play at least 100bb deep like most people responding here. But the truth is that there are plenty of home games that play shallow. And deeper stacks only benefit better players. Better cash game players, that is. As somebody alluded to earlier, the majority of tournament play happens with stacks in the shallower neighborhoods. Hell, most cash game pros will tell you Phil Hellmuth doesn't know what to do with a stack over 100bb - they're kinda right, and he's kinda arguably one of the greatest tournament players ever.
I'm babbling on a bit here, but the point I'm trying to make is that there are plenty of different ways to play poker. So hell yes, you can do $5 buyins with 10 cent big blinds (though personally I'd knock it down to 5 cent big blinds as somebody else recomended.)

Thanks! I’m evaluating wether to sell both my cash or tourney set or whether to keep one. I have too many chips. The cash set is smaller so that seems logical to keep. I’ve used the tourney set with friends in home games buying in for 50bb and these games actually lasted too long for say a dinner party. Seems to me, offering higher bb games would only lengthen these games further. Knocking the big blind down to 5 cents is a great solution and, may be, if I graduate into games with better players, a necessity. But then with better player, we’d probably go to higher priced buy-ins and have more flexibility designing the right buy-in bb. These complexities do intrigue me and propel me to learn more about Texas Hold-em.

 

[allforcharity]

I'd keep all your chips for now, until you know the details of what set you need and something comes up for sale/acquisition.

 

[4SUMERZ]

We have a $20.00 buy in cash game of 8 players with SB-BB at $.25 and the starting stack at $20.00 or 80 BB. It works great for our 4 hour games, which sees typically 2-4 buy ins per sitting, usually the same players. A rebuy can only happen if you go broke, or have less than $2.00 remaining, but no rebuys while you are playing in a hand.
Must rebuy prior to the start of a new hand.
A rebuy is for $20.00, nothing more. We allow $10.00 buy in on the last deals around the table prior to cashing out.
No one is there to get rich or lose their shirts. It is a fun night.

The starting stack is (8) $.25 (16) $.50 (10) $1.00 (34 chips) The first 3 Rebuys have (2) $5.00 chips, (6) $1.00 and (6) $.50 (4) $.25
At the 4th Buy in and beyond on the night, the buy in has (4) $5.00 chips. Required change is made with the table chips in play.

If you charge $5.00 for buy in and you use my starting stack of $20,00 in chips, with SB BB at $.25, the actual money would be 6.25 cents for the blinds. This gives you 80 BB's
Each 5 dollar amount in chip value is worth $1.25 of real money. $1.00 in chip value is then worth $.25 in real money.

Simple to calculate wins and loses at the end of the night. Chip value times .25
ie: $25.00 in chip value X .25 =$6.25 in real money
$32x.25 = $8.00 in real money.

 

[Statesvegas]

We play .25/.50, and initial buy ins used to be $50, with rebuys being at either $50 or 1/2 the biggest stack max. However, we changed the policy recently to allow for initial buy ins at $50 min and up to $100 with rebuys at a maximum of $100 or the biggest stack which seems to have increased the action.

The overwhelming majority buy in for $100 initially with all subsequent rebuys at $100 as well.

 

[upNdown]

We have a $20.00 buy in cash game of 8 players with SB-BB at $.25 and the starting stack at $20.00 or 80 BB. It works great for our 4 hour games, which sees typically 2-4 buy ins per sitting, usually the same players. A rebuy can only happen if you go broke, or have less than $2.00 remaining, but no rebuys while you are playing in a hand.
Must rebuy prior to the start of a new hand.
A rebuy is for $20.00, nothing more. We allow $10.00 buy in on the last deals around the table prior to cashing out.
No one is there to get rich or lose their shirts. It is a fun night.

The starting stack is (8) $.25 (16) $.50 (10) $1.00 (34 chips) The first 3 Rebuys have (2) $5.00 chips, (6) $1.00 and (6) $.50 (4) $.25
At the 4th Buy in and beyond on the night, the buy in has (4) $5.00 chips. Required change is made with the table chips in play.

I think this is the third time in the past couple of days that I’ve read about your 4 hour game. And while it’s totally worthwhile to hear what works at people’s home games, I think it’s also worth pointing out that some of your rules run counter to how most cash games work.
Typically people can buy in up to the max, and can rebuy or add-on up to the max any time they wish. Your max 80bb buy in feels low compared to what most of us are used to. In a typical cash game, 80bb is usually considered the minimum amount that somebody should buy in for. And that’s also where people start thinking about topping off. But okay if that’s how you guys want to play.
But requiring people to get down to 8bb before they’re allowed to rebuy or top off - that just isn’t normal.

 

[Marius L]

But requiring people to get down to 8bb before they’re allowed to rebuy or top off - that just isn’t normal.

Lol, indeed. I don't understand if this is a cashgame or tournament. In a cash game that is a horrible rule.

 

[detroitdad]

Lol, indeed. I don't understand if this is a cashgame or tournament. In a cash game that is a horrible rule.

Yep..... In my cash games you can add I'm up to the max buy in at any point

 

[4SUMERZ]

I think this is the third time in the past couple of days that I’ve read about your 4 hour game. And while it’s totally worthwhile to hear what works at people’s home games, I think it’s also worth pointing out that some of your rules run counter to how most cash games work.
Typically people can buy in up to the max, and can rebuy or add-on up to the max any time they wish. Your max 80bb buy in feels low compared to what most of us are used to. In a typical cash game, 80bb is usually considered the minimum amount that somebody should buy in for. And that’s also where people start thinking about topping off. But okay if that’s how you guys want to play.
But requiring people to get down to 8bb before they’re allowed to rebuy or top off - that just isn’t normal.

Thanks for the feedback. It works for our game...none of us are professional poker players, we enjoy small stakes games to have a sociable fun evening. I'm totally fine with whatever way people run their home games. I didn't think there was any set rule that one had to abide by, but if there is, then I guess I'm guilty of being ignorant of that set of rules.
If I read on this site of a cash game format that intrigues me, I may well adopt some of those ideas. I respect those that have home games, and don't have any problem on how they operate it.

 

[Marius L]

Thanks for the feedback. It works for our game...none of us are professional poker players, we enjoy small stakes games to have a sociable fun evening. I'm totally fine with whatever way people run their home games. I didn't think there was any set rule that one had to abide by, but if there is, then I guess I'm guilty of being ignorant of that set of rules.
If I read on this site of a cash game format that intrigues me, I may well adopt some of those ideas. I respect those that have home games, and don't have any problem on how they operate it.

The main problem in my opinion is that it must be very frustrating for a player that has just lost a big pot and is stuck with something like $5 to not be allowed to rebuy. Why is that a rule?

 

[upNdown]

Thanks for the feedback. It works for our game...none of us are professional poker players, we enjoy small stakes games to have a sociable fun evening. I'm totally fine with whatever way people run their home games. I didn't think there was any set rule that one had to abide by, but if there is, then I guess I'm guilty of being ignorant of that set of rules.
If I read on this site of a cash game format that intrigues me, I may well adopt some of those ideas. I respect those that have home games, and don't have any problem on how they operate it.

Great. And I don't mean to disparage your game. If you have a regular game that works, that's almost all that matters. I just spoke up because 1) newbies who read about it should get some perspective that this isn't common, and 2) if some new guy comes into YOUR game and thinks your rules are whacked, you should know that he's not crazy. And obviosuly 3) there are other ways to do it.

 

[upNdown]

The main problem in my opinion is that it must be very frustrating for a player that has just lost a big pot and is stuck with something like $5 to not be allowed to rebuy. Why is that a rule?

My stock reaction is that a good card player will react and adapt to any situation. If I'm down to $5 in that game, I'm probably just jamming the full $5 on every hand regardless of my holdings.

 

[Marius L]

My stock reaction is that a good card player will react and adapt to any situation. If I'm down to $5 in that game, I'm probably just jamming the full $5 on every hand regardless of my holdings.

Sure, same here (and I've done that plenty in rebuy tournaments). And maybe its a bigger issue if you have like half your buyin left or a bit more and would like to add on, but might not wanna shove any two. Then you're stuck paying short-ish against your will. Lol

Either way that rule is still just ridiculous in a cash game.

 

[4SUMERZ]

Sure, same here (and I've done that plenty in rebuy tournaments). And maybe its a bigger issue if you have like half your buyin left or a bit more and would like to add on, but might not wanna shove any two. Then you're stuck paying short-ish against your will. Lol

Either way that rule is still just ridiculous in a cash game.

I see both your points about losing a big pot and stuck with a small amount and not be able to rebuy. I'll bring that up with the boys and see what they think about being able to top up at anytime prior to the start of a new hand.
Thanks for your inputs.

 

[Bacon Dad]

I think this is the third time in the past couple of days that I’ve read about your 4 hour game. And while it’s totally worthwhile to hear what works at people’s home games, I think it’s also worth pointing out that some of your rules run counter to how most cash games work.
Typically people can buy in up to the max, and can rebuy or add-on up to the max any time they wish. Your max 80bb buy in feels low compared to what most of us are used to. In a typical cash game, 80bb is usually considered the minimum amount that somebody should buy in for. And that’s also where people start thinking about topping off. But okay if that’s how you guys want to play.
But requiring people to get down to 8bb before they’re allowed to rebuy or top off - that just isn’t normal.

I am glad you you phrased it as “it just isn’t normal.” I think a lot of new players (me included) struggle to figure out what is “normal”. I comb through these posts to wrap my head around such concepts. A lot of you guys offer great advice and we are all thankful for your responses. A lot of responses are similar, yet they are different.

For home cash games, I would love to see a simple list of “normal”…
- stakes for micro/small/low/mid/high NL cash games
- stakes for fixed limit cash games
- min/max ranges for blinds for each betting structure
- 200bb vs 100bb as the factor in the number of chips you should own
- number of players you should be prepared to have at any one table 10? 8? 6?
- number of buy-ins allowed
- number of chips in a starting stack

Does the number of people playing affect any of these “norms”?

I don’t think I am struggling with the mechanics of how to play the poker games or knowing how many chips I should buy of each denomination. It’s all the rest involving setting up and running a home cash poker game that I’m in search of.

There seems to be a lot of moving variables. So maybe a normalized list can’t exist.

Thoughts?

Thanks guys.

 

[4SUMERZ]

I am glad you you phrased it as “it just isn’t normal.” I think a lot of new players (me included) struggle to figure out what is “normal”. I comb through these posts to wrap my head around such concepts. A lot of you guys offer great advice and we are all thankful for your responses. A lot of responses are similar, yet they are different.

For home cash games, I would love to see a simple list of “normal”…
- stakes for micro/small/low/mid/high NL cash games
- stakes for fixed limit cash games
- min/max ranges for blinds for each betting structure
- 200bb vs 100bb as the factor in the number of chips you should own
- number of players you should be prepared to have at any one table 10? 8? 6?
- number of buy-ins allowed
- number of chips in a starting stack

Does the number of people playing affect any of these “norms”?

I don’t think I am struggling with the mechanics of how to play the poker games or knowing how many chips I should buy of each denomination. It’s all the rest involving setting up and running a home cash poker game that I’m in search of.

There seems to be a lot of moving variables. So maybe a normalized list can’t exist.

Thoughts?

Thanks guys.

I got suggestions for my response of how my home game was structured. I have 8 max at the table, and all the guys like how it is working. I am having a game on Saturday evening, and will ask them about bring able to top up anytime. We will still only be able to top up to the original buy in stack, but that is our decision.
I believe each home game does not have to follow any "regular" structure as long as it's played with the poker rules for betting etc,. As long as everyone enjoys themselves, that is the main thing. If a home game is to win major money, then different rules of blinds etc. would be different and stricter rules may be in place.

 

[upNdown]

I got suggestions for my response of how my home game was structured. I have 8 max at the table, and all the guys like how it is working. I am having a game on Saturday evening, and will ask them about bring able to top up anytime. We will still only be able to top up to the original buy in stack, but that is our decision.
I believe each home game does not have to follow any "regular" structure as long as it's played with the poker rules for betting etc,. As long as everyone enjoys themselves, that is the main thing. If a home game is to win major money, then different rules of blinds etc. would be different and stricter rules may be in place.

Yeah, if “normal” means the same or as close as possible to what’s done in the casino, then that’s a good thing because everybody will know what to expect.
But if you’ve got a bunch of guys who are happy with the way things are, then normal doesn’t matter much.

 

[4SUMERZ]

Yeah, if “normal” means the same or as close as possible to what’s done in the casino, then that’s a good thing because everybody will know what to expect.
But if you’ve got a bunch of guys who are happy with the way things are, then normal doesn’t matter much.

We play by the normal rules of poker, same as a casino. It's just that we play low stakes cash game $.25/$.25 and starting stack worth $20.00 using $.25-$.50 and $1.00 chips. Although we play NL, we dont have many that go all in unless their stacks are low. That is why the suggestion on this forum to allow players to top up anytime is being suggested. Our game is more social than serious.
Only a few of us have played in a casino, as the closest is 100 miles away.

 

[merkong]

Hello all,

I apologize if this has already been covered... I'm new and taking a close look at my cash poker set.

Are cash games with 50 BB buy-ins still a viable game? I see 100 BB games are normally targeted but, for a micro-stakes game of a $5 dollar buy-in and big blind of 10 cents my set only produces a 50 BB game. Maybe this is okay for such a small buy-in. I could always add a 5th chip (in this case a $1 chip) to bring up the BB closer to the 100 mark... Is that commonly done?

Thanks, Neal

Micro games are fun but bets are bets. Our .10/.10 game went .10/.20 with a $20 buyin and top offs and the standard raise is a moose knuckle ($1.60)

We have one player pushing for higher initial buyins because they don’t understand effective stack.

You could do .05/.05 but again, beta are bets