Cash Game Cash Game Rules (rules that every cash game should follow?)

davethesave

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I realize that it can be a bit tricky policing cash games at times. I have a few pet peeves, and I tend to like rules being followed... I am new here, so I apologize if I missed this thread somewhere, perhaps someone will redirect me....

What are some rules that MUST be followed or in place at your cash game?
Some "tendencies" and topics that come to mind...
- when a player shows the guy next to him his hand, but then mucks....
- when player A calls, and insists that you showdown your cards, player B mucks and player A gets upset...
- sloppy betting... I think we all agree string bets are a no no...
- straddles... does anyone use straddles and if so, can you explain the idea behind it to a new player?
- does anyone do HAND OF THE NIGHT? if so, do you insist that players use both hole cards in NLHE?

there are a ton more tendencies and rules, but as a newbie here I was hoping to hear from all of you!
 

tabletalker7

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I realize that it can be a bit tricky policing cash games at times. I have a few pet peeves, and I tend to like rules being followed... I am new here, so I apologize if I missed this thread somewhere, perhaps someone will redirect me....

Robert's Rules of Poker have been around for a VERY LONG TIME and will cover any situation you may think of, including things you are referring to here.

- when a player shows the guy next to him his hand, but then mucks....
show one show all

- when player A calls, and insists that you showdown your cards, player B mucks and player A gets upset...
If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand.

- sloppy betting... I think we all agree string bets are a no no...
String raises are not allowed.

http://www.gottatalkpoker.com/rrp/index.shtml this will let you download both PDF and printer friendly Robert's Rules of Poker Version 11. Anything outside of that is what you determine to be best for your game.
 

Squidge

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"If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand"

I always thought it was based on position not betting. I am obviously very new to live poker, glad to have that straightened out.

We would always play very casual low stakes at home games and would show hands at showdown regardless of their strength.
 

tabletalker7

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"If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand"

I always thought it was based on position not betting. I am obviously very new to live poker, glad to have that straightened out.

We would always play very casual low stakes at home games and would show hands at showdown regardless of their strength.
If you read through Robert's Rules of Poker it also says that in the interest of speeding up the game, if you feel you have a winner to go ahead and show it right away - I only wait for it when I honestly wondered what they had.
 

Squidge

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Strategically it's always best give as little information and get as much as possible. It's just so casual that showing has never been a problem for me.

I'm sure I would benefit from reading Roberts Rules of Poker! I've done lots of reading/watching for poker strategy but don't know the rules half as good as should for a proper host.
 

abby99

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"If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand"

I always thought it was based on position not betting. I am obviously very new to live poker, glad to have that straightened out.

We would always play very casual low stakes at home games and would show hands at showdown regardless of their strength.
House rules determine which is to be used in that particular card room. Either can be designated. For your home game, I suggest that you pick the rule that is closest to what your group prefers.
 

Squidge

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Good to know! I like the idea that the aggressor should show first, just makes sense to me.
 

davethesave

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@Squidge
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Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Any situations arise from experience that saw disagreements come up or rulings needed? Doesn't have to be from my examples.... I know that its can be tricky having players get up and leave not long after racking in a big pot.

Also have had players standing all the time during a hand in a seemingly "intimidating" spot looking down at the possible caller....

Or have you had the dealer (when players are dealing) get into some sort of discussion that delays the game and allows players to think and stall and perhaps change their minds etc. but you don't wanna speak up because it makes it seem like youre too eager - which you are because you checked your trips on the flop only to call the raiser going to the turn... the turn that is taking forever because the dealer is the raiser and stalling now...

Does anyone have any issues with players keeping their chips in racks during play in NLHE... or what about players who hide their larger valued chips?
 

Mr Winberg

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"If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand"

I always thought it was based on position not betting. I am obviously very new to live poker, glad to have that straightened out.
In holdem it's the aggressor on the river that shows first. If it goes check-check the showdown order is determined by position. However, at a London casino I was stunned when checking back a river and then forced to show first because I was the aggressor on the turn! And the whole table was like "don't you know the rules?", except this one guy who defended me, saying that the house rules at the casino weren't standard.

So house rules may differ!

Also, regarding:
when player A calls, and insists that you showdown your cards, player B mucks and player A gets upset...
I may be wrong but I believe player A has every right to discard his/her cards. If the dealer mucks them, it's player B's pot and B doesn't have to show either, since nobody is left to claim the pot.
 

tabletalker7

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@Squidge
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Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Any situations arise from experience that saw disagreements come up or rulings needed? Doesn't have to be from my examples.... I know that its can be tricky having players get up and leave not long after racking in a big pot.

Also have had players standing all the time during a hand in a seemingly "intimidating" spot looking down at the possible caller....

Or have you had the dealer (when players are dealing) get into some sort of discussion that delays the game and allows players to think and stall and perhaps change their minds etc. but you don't wanna speak up because it makes it seem like youre too eager - which you are because you checked your trips on the flop only to call the raiser going to the turn... the turn that is taking forever because the dealer is the raiser and stalling now...

Does anyone have any issues with players keeping their chips in racks during play in NLHE... or what about players who hide their larger valued chips?
Of course, but you would be surprised what all is covered in RROP. Usually it is needed only for things like dealer error in my game, as my players know that rules exist for a reason and I will enforce them. And those rules cover A LOT, like the house having the right to remove the chips for security purposes for a player not sitting in their seat (deals with MR. Intimidation, doesn't it), a posted time limit to act on a hand (preventing said dealer from causing problems), and how chips cannot be played from racks (it specifically states that), you should really read them just to see how much is covered. And as far as your hit and run specialist, I just don't invite them. People who lost are free to leave at will, winners always give me a warning of one trip around of the button.
 

tabletalker7

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In holdem it's the aggressor on the river that shows first. If it goes check-check the showdown order is determined by position. However, at a London casino I was stunned when checking back a river and then forced to show first because I was the aggressor on the turn! And the whole table was like "don't you know the rules?", except this one guy who defended me, saying that the house rules at the casino weren't standard.

So house rules may differ!

Also, regarding:

I may be wrong but I believe player A has every right to discard his/her cards. If the dealer mucks them, it's player B's pot and B doesn't have to show either, since nobody is left to claim the pot.
I played in a card room here where someone tried that and someone else asked the dealer since said player was the aggressor if they could see the hand - the dealer flip over their cards for the table. Depends on house rules.
 

JustinInMN

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http://www.gottatalkpoker.com/rrp/index.shtml this will let you download both PDF and printer friendly Robert's Rules of Poker Version 11. Anything outside of that is what you determine to be best for your game.

Thank you for sharing this link. I used to reference Ciffaone's pokercoach.us site. But apparently that's down now.

But yes, most hosts should at a minimum have a standard ruleseset like Robert's that covers just about any situation and add their own rules on top. Check the links in my signature for my examples.
 

tabletalker7

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Thank you for sharing this link. I used to reference Ciffaone's pokercoach.us site. But apparently that's down now.

But yes, most hosts should at a minimum have a standard ruleseset like Robert's that covers just about any situation and add their own rules on top. Check the links in my signature for my examples.
I converted the PDF format to .TXT so it could be uploaded to the forums - it is in this posting https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/several-problems-at-home-game.57956/page-2#post-1130118
 

detroitdad

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Basically a friendly game stays friendly if you consistently follow rules. Whatever you decide to do, please do it every time you host. Also, make the rules clear to everyone.
 

Jambine

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"If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand"

I always thought it was based on position not betting. I am obviously very new to live poker, glad to have that straightened out.

We would always play very casual low stakes at home games and would show hands at showdown regardless of their strength.
Whoever the action was on shows first. If you bet and I call, the action is back to you. Show em
Doesn't matter what game or position
 

TheWhat

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Find it interesting that Robert's Rules talks about no checking down a hand when a 3rd Player is All In.

That's sound Tourney theory to do that.
 
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Find it interesting that Robert's Rules talks about no checking down a hand when a 3rd Player is All In.

That's sound Tourney theory to do that.

It's not really sound tournament strategy to, as a rule, check down a hand simply because a third player is all in. Obviously it's extremely situation-dependent, but the larger the field, the more likely you should be trying to extract value from your opponent regardless of whether there is a third player all in. But perhaps this is better discussed in a separate thread.
 

Colquhoun

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It happens mostly when there is a short stack all-in (especially on the bubble) and there are multiple other players still in the hand. Unless any of the remaining player’s hand improve, checking it down to increase the odds of knocking out the short stack is common.
 

danopoker

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There is also very little point in betting unless you are reasonably sure you can beat the all-in player in a showdown. You have no value in bluffing if there is no side pot, but a rookie will sometimes bet in that situation by mistake and force out all the other players. Most people make this mistake just once.

It's usually a good idea to take your time pre-flop and not just call someone's all-in -- sometimes you want to raise, say with a big pocket pair, to isolate. But I digress.
 
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It happens mostly when there is a short stack all-in (especially on the bubble) and there are multiple other players still in the hand. Unless any of the remaining player’s hand improve, checking it down to increase the odds of knocking out the short stack is common.

Very common, but often incorrect. Consider the value of a single elimination where there are a few hundred players left in the field. I'd say the value of that elimination is among the least relevant considerations when deciding whether to bet in this scenario.

There is also very little point in betting unless you are reasonably sure you can beat the all-in player in a showdown. You have no value in bluffing if there is no side pot, but a rookie will sometimes bet in that situation by mistake and force out all the other players. Most people make this mistake just once.

There are reasons to bet other than bluffing, which is why I said above that the goal should be extracting value from the remaining player. If (a) there are enough players left in the field that a single elimination is borderline irrelevant, (b) you have a better hand, and (c) you believe they will call with worse, you should bet. Pretty straightforward.

The only realistic point of debate is the inflection point at which the single elimination gains enough relevance that it should overtake a simple value extraction analysis. It's inarguable in both extremes: three-handed for a bracelet and you're going to check it down almost always; first hand of the main, the elimination of one player is truly meaningless and so you should simply consider whether a worse hand will call.
 

Colquhoun

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Very common, but often incorrect. Consider the value of a single elimination where there are a few hundred players left in the field. I'd say the value of that elimination is among the least relevant considerations when deciding whether to bet in this scenario.
This is why I made the point of noting that it is a bubble situation. It is in everyone’s best interest that this player be gone, and betting (or bluffing) into a dry side pot is not the best play imo. I do agree with you that the play is not for early on in a tournament when trying to knock someone out.
 

LaBestiole

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To answer you about straddles :
There are mainly 2 different straddles : the « common » straddle (CS) and the mississipi straddle (MS).
In CS, the « first to act preflop » (UTG position) has the option (choice must be made before seeing hole cards ofc) to double the big blind in order to act last preflop instead. It has no influence in the postflop order of play. The logic extends to the following players, each having to double the previous amount if they want to. Having to act last preflop is a nice advantage, but having to put that much money with any two cards is a bigger disadvantage. That is why CS is a EV- decision on a game theory point of view. It can be profitable though if opponents are bad but usually if u have an edge, it is also best to play deep and CS goes in the wrong direction in that regard. CS for a round or two can make the fishes happy and you always want the fishes to happily give you their money.
MS is when the BTN player doubles the blind (usually) so that he acts last preflop. When MSing, the SB acts first preflop. As for CS, MS is a losing move for the BTN player but the funny thing is that is increases even more the disadvantage of being in the blinds. All that EV is transfered to the other players. If you’re in the BB spot vs a happy-MSer, just leave and play another table, or change position if allowed. I hope this helps.
 

GimmieUChips

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I realize that it can be a bit tricky policing cash games at times. I have a few pet peeves, and I tend to like rules being followed... I am new here, so I apologize if I missed this thread somewhere, perhaps someone will redirect me....

What are some rules that MUST be followed or in place at your cash game?
Some "tendencies" and topics that come to mind...
- when a player shows the guy next to him his hand, but then mucks....
- when player A calls, and insists that you showdown your cards, player B mucks and player A gets upset...
- sloppy betting... I think we all agree string bets are a no no...
- straddles... does anyone use straddles and if so, can you explain the idea behind it to a new player?
- does anyone do HAND OF THE NIGHT? if so, do you insist that players use both hole cards in NLHE?

there are a ton more tendencies and rules, but as a newbie here I was hoping to hear from all of you!
I have a (maybe dumb question. Do you have to show when you raise fold in a multi-player hand? Someone asked to see my hand and I was told I had to show. Is that correct?
 

davethesave

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@LaBestiole

I think I grasp this, but can you just clarify this: “ As for CS, MS is a losing move for the BTN player but the funny thing is that is increases even more the disadvantage of being in the blinds.“

Thanks!
 
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