Cash Game Building a Micro Cash Set (2 Viewers)

[v1pe]

I'm gearing up to take part in the upcoming SunFly Hybrid GB so it's time to start thinking about the breakdown...

Most of my players are primarily into tournaments, but I really would like to get a cash game going now and then. Looking at probably $10 - $25 buyins at this point (similar to what most spend on a $10 buyin tournament w/ rebuys), so I'm leaning towards .05/.10 blinds, preferably with the ability to expand up to .10/.25 when my players get more comfortable with cash. As much as I would love more, only need to support a single table (9max) at this point.

I'm trying to cap my budget at 500 chips, but I could probably stretch it to 600 if 500 really isn't going to do the trick.

So...suggestions for a 500 chip micro cash set (10NL up to 25NL)? I think we need to break down into 25 chip increments for the group buy...but I'm not 100% sure.

(I made a thread with a similar question when I first joined here, but I thought it got muddied a bit and I thought it would be better to start a new one at this point, hope that's okay )

 

[Waarwaar]

I'm not an expert, but for me a great starting stack for 0.05/0.10 blinds and a $10 buyin would be:

15 x 0.05 = $ 0.75
17 x 0.25 = $ 4.25
5 x 1.00 = $ 5.00
-------------------------
Total $ 10.00

For a $ 25.00 buyin i would add 5 x $ 1.00 and 2 x $ 5.00

Curious what other people say. Gl

 

[Nex]

I had a micro cash set manufactured earlier this year. It has a much bigger chip count but covers more stakes than you are going for.
That being said, I've made 600-chip breakdowns (10 players) for each stake the set covers which all only use a part of the whole set.

For 5c/10c as well as 10c/25c, I have this one:

- 5c x 200 (beginning stack NL25: 20 per player = $1)
- 25c x 120 (beginning stack NL25: 12 per player = $3)
- $1 x 180 (beginning stack NL25: 16 per player = $16 + rest)
- $5 x 100 (beginning stack NL25: 1 per player = $5 + rest for rebuys)

Total bank: $720 (28 x $25 buy-ins or 72 x $10 buy-ins)

As you can already see, there are a few more $1s than actually needed, so if you are playing 25NL and want to get a bit more than the just a little under 3 buy-ins per player, you can replace the superfluous 20 $1s with more $5s or even $25s. If you then need even more bank, you can probably drop the 5c chips to 15 per player and add one 25c for each instead, freeing up 40 chips in total. I just prefer to have a good number of small denoms at hand if my players turn out to hate rounding up/down the bets they want to make for the sake of simplicity and avoiding making change all the time.

For 10c/25c you could also safely drop the number of 5c chips to 10 (-100) per player, add more 25c (+100) instead and give out 8 more 25c and 2 $1 less with each initial buy-in. This also frees up 20 slots of $1 chips to be used for some more $5s or $25s.

If you have to order in increments of 25, just round the number for each denom up to the next multiple of 25. Keep in mind you will want to have a few replacement chips ready. I didn't have to order multiples of 25 when I ordered mine, which are Sun-Fly as well (but via a different vendor).

 

[inca911]

I recommend buying a more typical denomination set, and just dividing by 5 or 10 for micro-stakes games. If your stakes increase, then you don't need to buy another set.

500 chips, single table:
100 x $0.25
200 x $1
180 x $5
20 x $20

 

[upNdown]

I had a micro cash set manufactured earlier this year. It has a much bigger chip count but covers more stakes than you are going for.
That being said, I've made 600-chip breakdowns (10 players) for each stake the set covers which all only use a part of the whole set.

For 5c/10c as well as 10c/25c, I have this one:

- 5c x 200 (beginning stack NL25: 20 per player = $1)
- 25c x 120 (beginning stack NL25: 12 per player = $3)
- $1 x 180 (beginning stack NL25: 16 per player = $16 + rest)
- $5 x 100 (beginning stack NL25: 1 per player = $5 + rest for rebuys)

Total bank: $720 (28 x $25 buy-ins or 72 x $10 buy-ins)

As you can already see, there are a few more $1s than actually needed, so if you are playing 25NL and want to get a bit more than the just a little under 3 buy-ins per player, you can replace the superfluous 20 $1s with more $5s or even $25s. If you then need even more bank, you can probably drop the 5c chips to 15 per player and add one 25c for each instead, freeing up 40 chips in total. I just prefer to have a good number of small denoms at hand if my players turn out to hate rounding up/down the bets they want to make for the sake of simplicity and avoiding making change all the time.

For 10c/25c you could also safely drop the number of 5c chips to 10 (-100) per player, add more 25c (+100) instead and give out 8 more 25c and 2 $1 less with each initial buy-in. This also frees up 20 slots of $1 chips to be used for some more $5s or $25s.

If you have to order in increments of 25, just round the number for each denom up to the next multiple of 25. Keep in mind you will want to have a few replacement chips ready. I didn't have to order multiples of 25 when I ordered mine, which are Sun-Fly as well (but via a different vendor).

I've never played a real micro stakes game,but I'm surprised to see you have more nickels than quarters. I would think the quarter would be the workhorse chip in a game like this, and that you'd want more of them.

 

[RichMahogany]

I would typically do this:

100 of your smallest denom chip(blinds chip)

200-400 of the next denom(workhorse chip)

80-100 of your "biggest" chip(rebuys and for nights the game plays big)

20 maybe of the next chip up.

 

[Nex]

I've never played a real micro stakes game,but I'm surprised to see you have more nickels than quarters. I would think the quarter would be the workhorse chip in a game like this, and that you'd want more of them.

I actually have slightly more quarters than nickels, just in this 600ct configuration (out of the 1600 total chips) I've picked less.
For 10c/25c I'd definitely take more 25c chips and reduce the amount of 5c chips. However for 5c/10c games, I prefer being able to size bets more exactly than just rounding to the next 25 cents without having to make change all the time. Hence more 5c chips.

 

[BSteck]

When I first started on my chip journey I would spend a bunch of time in spreadsheets trying to optimize my set breakdowns. But then I realized that I really like chippies. So now I just get two racks of everything and I never have to think too hard about starting stacks. We play 5c/10c and 25c/25c and my set is:

5c x 200
25c x 200
$1 x 200
$5 x 100
$20 x 25

Allows me to do 20/20/x big stacks for one table 5c or 25c games. Could even cover two tables at 10/10/x for the 5c game or 8/8/x for the 25c game if I needed to.

 

[v1pe]

When I first started on my chip journey I would spend a bunch of time in spreadsheets trying to optimize my set breakdowns. But then I realized that I really like chippies. So now I just get two racks of everything and I never have to think too hard about starting stacks. We play 5c/10c and 25c/25c and my set is:

5c x 200
25c x 200
$1 x 200
$5 x 100
$20 x 25

Allows me to do 20/20/x big stacks for one table 5c or 25c games. Could even cover two tables at 10/10/x for the 5c game or 8/8/x for the 25c game if I needed to.

Haha, I really like chippies too and would have no problem going overboard on the count except that I'm trying to stick to a bit of a budget. This place had already cost me a good but of money!

I was initially thinking something similar to this, but I thought we could do with fewer nickles.:

.05 x 100
.25 x 200
1 x 100
5 x 80
25 (or 20) x 20

I thought it would be best to increase the 1s and maybe 5s if needed to cap out at 600 chips.

 

[v1pe]

I recommend buying a more typical denomination set, and just dividing by 5 or 10 for micro-stakes games. If your stakes increase, then you don't need to buy another set.

500 chips, single table:
100 x $0.25
200 x $1
180 x $5
20 x $20

I have considered using my T25 - T25k set. I think it would work for a .25/.25 game, but I'd prefer to have a dedicated cash set and have actual denoms on them. 1) I just need MOAR CHIPS, and 2) I want to make it as easy as possible on my players.

 

[BSteck]

Haha, I really like chippies too and would have no problem going overboard on the count except that I'm trying to stick to a bit of a budget. This place had already cost me a good but of money!

I was initially thinking something similar to this, but I thought we could do with fewer nickles.:

.05 x 100
.25 x 200
1 x 100
5 x 80
25 (or 20) x 20

I thought it would be best to increase the 1s and maybe 5s if needed to cap out at 600 chips.

Yah... If I had to cut from my set it would be on the nickles. But the difference between 600 and 725 chip sets is only $75 at 60c/chip. For me that's just a little bit more money for nice full racks (insert sexist photo here) of each denomination.

 

[v1pe]

Yah... If I had to cut from my set it would be on the nickles. But the difference between 600 and 725 chip sets is only $75 at 60c/chip. For me that's just a little bit more money for nice full racks (insert sexist photo here) of each denomination.

:groan: stop convincing me to spend more money!

I'm ordering a set of 43mm so it's a bit more spendy at .82/chip. I'm pretty sure I will probably end up ordering 600, but I'll have to cap it there.

Right now I'm thinking

.05 x 100
.25 x 200
1 x 160
5 x 100
20 x 40

That's a bank of $1515 which I would never expect would be on the table at the stakes we currently play. In would expect at this point maximum of $250-$300 in play at any time. Even at .25/.25 I wouldn't expect more than $500 on the table with my players. I might go with $25s instead of $20s because I prefer the color scheme which would bump us up to $1715.

 

[Poker Zombie]

In our micro-stakes game with ($20 tournament players), the nickle is both the blinds chip and the workhorse chip. This may be a result of nittiness or habit of a 2x bet being big enough to push many out. therefore, for 1 table, I'd use...
0.05 x 150
0.25 x 200
$1 x 200
$5 x 50

Yes, this is 600, not 500 chips, but 600 fills a 600 chip birdcage better.

This may leave you thinking "do I need $20s, just in case?". I've never taken the $5s out for a single table game. It's a nickle-dime game.

You may ask "What if the game starts playing bigger?". Your players are playing $10, maybe $20 right now. How far on tilt does one have to go to drop 5-10x their normal buy-in on the table?

If I had a regret in chip purchases, It's that I kept "looking to the future". It's not a bad idea, but if the chips are a non-custom set, look 1-2 years down the road, not 10-20 years. There will be more sets to come along, and more great deals / group buys on new sets. If the game grows in 5 years, get a 25¢-50¢ set then. Then you will have chip-set options, and there's always the option of selling the micro-stakes set if you think you group has outgrown them.

 

[v1pe]

@Poker Zombie , I hate it, but solid advice. I do definitely have a very "look to the future" Outlook and very often don't realize my future vision. I also have a very "must be prepared just in case" mentality haha.

You are very right though, and I'm reconsidering my need for the higher bank given where my players are at today (very few have even played cash) and how the game will likely grow in the next couple of years (NOT into a 1/2 game like I wish it would, haha).

Thanks! (y) :thumbsup:

 

[Mental Nomad]

For a 9-max nickel & dime game playing NLHE, but which may grow some day, I'd recommend the following:

100 x 5c
(90 nickels, or 10 per player, rounded up to 100 based on probably needing to buy in packs of 25)
150 x 25c
(144 quarters, or 16 per player, rounded up)
200 x $1
(180 singles, 20 per player, rounded up)
50 x $5

That's a $492.50 bank in 500 chips. Assuming a typical 100 bb buy-in of $10 in a 10c game, that's over five buy-ins per person times nine players. Ample. But it's tight for a quarter game.

To make it really playable at, say, 25c/50c, you need more $5 chips. I like at least 3 buy-ins times the number of players, and a 100 bb buy-in at 25c/50c is $50... so $50 * 3 * 9 = $1350. I'd feel good about that, but you can get a way with a slightly smaller bank than that.

If you bump the $5 from 50 to 150, you're at 600 chips, and the bank is still only $987.50 (nickels don't play.) You can squeak buy, but nine players at 25c/50c will tag the figure from time to time.

Add 25 x $20 chips as "bank chips" for another $500 in bank, and you're in great shape with $1487.50. (Alternately, 25 x $25 chips, extra $125 in the mix.)

That's a 625 piece set which, IMHO, plays well from 5 & dime through 25c/50c, with ample bank for the 50c game. Many 50c/$1 games can play just fine with this set, most nights... Worst case, cash on the table plays, which is fine for a couple of $100 bills at a $1 game (just keep them in full view.)

I'd get a 600-chip case for the main set, and I'd keep the bank chips in the cash box (I prefer old cigar boxes for cash boxes, which you can often get for free at cigar shops).

It depends on your crowd and how much they like to rebuy, but I'd actually consider this set fairly minimalist. Some 25c games go well over $1000, routinely.

Future expansions, depending on what happens more often:
More $5 chips, to play better in a $1 game or a big quarters night
or
More $20 chips, to better accommodate in bigger $1 or even $1/$2 game
or
A stack of $100 chips, to cover bank in a "crazy $1 night."

 

[Mental Nomad]

In our micro-stakes game with ($20 tournament players), the nickle is both the blinds chip and the workhorse chip. This may be a result of nittiness or habit of a 2x bet being big enough to push many out.

With all due respect, if they don't play cash often, it won't hurt to have fewer nickels, because it's rarely played. But if they do start playing cash more often, they'll need to learn to start playing cash instead of playing tourney at a cash table! ... they'll stop playing that way!

You are very right though, and I'm reconsidering my need for the higher bank given where my players are at today (very few have even played cash) and how the game will likely grow in the next couple of years (NOT into a 1/2 game like I wish it would, haha).

I'd also think about resale value. Whether or not your crew grows that much, you may, one day, want to sell the set (to get a bigger and better set, of course.) Sets that play quarters or dollars are in much more demand today than sets that play nickels... and that trend will continue with inflation.

If you were buying a set for $1 and occasional $1/$2, I'd caution you back from investing in supporting a $5/$10 or $10/$20 game right now... but a $1 game is no unicorn.

 

[upNdown]

More quarters!

 

[v1pe]

I should note - this set *should* be expandable in the near-ish future, at least that's the feedback I've gotten from Sal in the questions I've posed in the GB thread. Albeit, at a slightly higher cost per chip of course.

 

[Poker Zombie]

With all due respect, if they don't play cash often, it won't hurt to have fewer nickels, because it's rarely played. But if they do start playing cash more often, they'll need to learn to start playing cash instead of playing tourney at a cash table! ... they'll stop playing that way!

We don't play a lot of cash, that's true, but we have spread over to 2 tables before. With fewer nickles per person, they didn't move onto quarters - they just made change more often.

Low stakes players are a different breed. A few may want to move the stakes up, but most of them would have the same amount of enjoyment from a 1¢-2¢ game as they have in nickle-dime. An upswing of +$26 is A great night at these levels, and many don't carry more than $20 in their wallet. We've even had to float loans to some that busted too early, because they "just don't have that much".

Obviously, each group plays different, and YMMV. Most players on PCF play much bigger stakes. I do too when I'm at the right table. But my base group never got above it. I've tried and got a lot of uncomfortable looks (even though I am, by far, the lowest wage earner in my group). They are looking forward to "an evening out" for $20-$40. The stakes don't matter, but bigger stakes just mean some players will run out of fun sooner.

 

[v1pe]

Low stakes players are a different breed. A few may want to move the stakes up, but most of them would have the same amount of enjoyment from a 1¢-2¢ game as they have in nickle-dime. An upswing of +$26 is A great night at these levels, and many don't carry more than $20 in their wallet. We've even had to float loans to some that busted too early, because they "just don't have that much".

This is the reason I was considering getting the cash trend started with .10/.25 or even .25/.25 from the get go. I'm quite worried that if I set the standard at .05/.10 nobody is ever going to want to move up. Honestly, that's probably fine. I enjoy the social aspect of the game, but I would definitely prefer there be a little more at stake.

 

[Mental Nomad]

I should note - this set *should* be expandable in the near-ish future, at least that's the feedback I've gotten from Sal in the questions I've posed in the GB thread. Albeit, at a slightly higher cost per chip of course.

Yes, Sal can manage stock of 39mm and 43mm blanks, and then print designs on demand, so these should continue to be available.

Low stakes players are a different breed.

My longest-running game is Two-Bit Poker, where the blinds are 12.5c/25c. There are players who come who will milk a $20 buy-in all night (80 bb), so I know what you mean.

But others have progressed and really enjoy that game, so it goes on. At this point, six or more people have been into the table for over $100 (400 bb). Those same players are also those most likely to leave the night with over $100. No surprise, there.

 

[Kensco]

This is a snapshot of a 500 count set we use for 5¢ / 10¢ NLHE with a $10 - $20 buy-in range. You can see it would handle ten players at $25, as well, with sufficient re-buys available. We've gotten by quite well with this bank/breakdown

 

[Mental Nomad]

I like the convenient 10/10 nickel/quarter buy-in base for $3, but the 25c is really a workhorse chip in 5c/10c. Do you find yourselves wanting more quarters?

Also, I've learned not to obsess over the starting stack at cash games... I find it works better to push the small chips onto the table early, and then go bigger as later players and/or rebuys arrive.

I'd probably give 20 x 5c = $1.00 to each of the first five people, or else give four people 20 nickels and then two people 10 nickles each... From then on, it's all quarters and, soon enough, all dollars, and the small change works around the table quick enough.

I think more people need to learn to handle pot change properly, which makes the game far quicker and easier and less confusing than people making stacks of change from time to time.

 

[Kensco]

Do you find yourselves wanting more quarters?

Me and a couple others, "yes". Others are just too content to bet in 10 - 20¢ increments! I had starting stacks with 20 nickels one night (different chip set) and between the chip herding and the micro betting it was unbearable.

I'd probably give 20 x 5c = $1.00 to each of the first five people, or else give four people 20 nickels and then two people 10 nickles each... From then on, it's all quarters and, soon enough, all dollars, and the small change works around the table quick enough.

I've been too caught up in the idea of every one starting with identical stacks. Love this idea. Stealing it!

 

[Mental Nomad]

between the chip herding and the micro betting it was unbearable

Then they go to cash in their twelve 10-chip stacks of nickels.. and discover that's only $6.

I've been too caught up in the idea of every one starting with identical stacks. Love this idea. Stealing it!

Feel free to spread the love! It was actually my pink bits that liberated me. I mean my 12.5c chips.

I have 50 of them, and used to play about 40 of them in my Two-Bit game, which usually gets 9 or 10 players - so, average, 4 bits each. I used to swap out two quarters from each buy-in for four bits, and reserve pink chips for that 10th player's buy-in, even after rebuys... but it got annoying, and the pinks are only really used for the small blind, and they get changed really easily.

One day, we looked to be short-handed, and we only had four players to start, so I said, screw it... gave each of us 8 bits ($1) at the start. Fifth player got another 8, but then the table filled up, rebuys happened, all blissfully free of pink-chip buy-ins. When I realized it was actually better and easier that way, it freed me up on the other denoms, too.

Now, my rule is that on a rebuy, anyone can request a bank chip. I've got plenty of $5 chips, but rebuys are allowed to request an oversize $20. Some people love them and think they're good luck. Others think they're terrible luck unless they're won, not bought. Either way, it makes for much funner chip-hoarding than the little chips.

It's also fun to bet 25c more than someone can call without breaking their $20 chip, and then watching them squirm... although, once, that did induce a, "FU, I'm all-in."

 

[GenghisKhan]

Personally, we've been playing $10 buy-ins and 5c/10c for like 18 years.
The only difference now is we sometimes do dealer's choice and the dealer bumps the blinds to 10c/25c for that hand.

I do starting hands of:
10 x 5c
10 x 25c
7 x $1

When you bust out, to give you a chance to catch up and play with the big stacks, we very recently allowed rebuying for $20 or $30 instead of just $10.
I start with same breakdown as above and just add $5s to reach $20 or $30. That did not change how much money was spent per night btw.

My current sets totals we've been using forever is as follows:
100 x 5c
150 x 25c
200 x $1
50 x $5

Trust me when I say this should be all you need. My sets actually have more chips than the above. Though the rest is safely stored away in chip boxes and in all these years I've never needed to take any extra out. If you don't want to waste money on chips that'll never see the light of day, you're safe with this breakdown.
@Mental Nomad suggested the exact same breakdown higher up. So that's 2 votes.

He also hit it right on the money when he suggested if you want to buy more chips now, keep the above and add more $5s (up to a rack more) and about 20 or 25 x $25.