Recently acquired some racks of what I researched to be BCC Protege chips. When sorting through them, I found that there were some with multiple patterns (double stamped?) of the cigar and snifter mold. Seems like it happened during production. Is it common with this line of chips? Also, does this affect its value or appeal? Or is it like an error chip? Been mainly into Paulson but found these and trying to learn more about them.
BCC Protege double Cigar and Snifter (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CHIPnD
- Start date
What you’re seeing here is known as a “ghost mold.” It’s thought that BCC would press chips more than once in the process of manufacturing, and chips with a ghost mold are pretty strong evidence that they did so. I’ve seen it in both the Protégé line as well as the Grand Cardroom MGK group buy chips. The GCR chips I’ve seen with ghost mold have MGK on top of MGK. The Protégé line, on the other hand, I’ve seen with both Cigar and Sniffer and Courts and Numerals as the ghost mold. There were reports on Chiptalk that baking (or otherwise heating up) BCC chips would sometimes expose a ghost mold that wasn’t otherwise apparent. The phenomenon was most frequently observed with the Protégé line, although I wouldn’t call it common. It’s generally considered more of a manufacturing defect than an error, and would be expected to have a negative impact on the value of the chip. The impact on value is for the most part a personal decision though. In the grand scheme of issues that can be observed in BCC chips, I personally find the ghost mold to be one of the more tolerable. 10 years ago I had a different opinion of ghost mold chips, so take that with a grain of salt. The sun damage on the inlay of that $25 would generally be considered a bigger issue.
Most importantly, congratulations on finding some Protégé chips! They’re one of my personal favorites amongst the lines that BCC produced, and in my opinion they’re better bang for your buck than Paulson chips, especially with today’s pricing. Leaded Paulson chips may be the bee’s knees, but I’ll take a playable set of Protégé chips over a rack of leaded Paulsons any day of the week.
Most importantly, congratulations on finding some Protégé chips! They’re one of my personal favorites amongst the lines that BCC produced, and in my opinion they’re better bang for your buck than Paulson chips, especially with today’s pricing. Leaded Paulson chips may be the bee’s knees, but I’ll take a playable set of Protégé chips over a rack of leaded Paulsons any day of the week.
Paulson can suffer from this as well. It's been noted that clay chips can be pressed twice...but how they're off center like that, I'm unsure.
Here's a short thread with TH&C ghosting chip:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/mistake-chips-thc-double-thc-mold.76952/
Here's a short thread with TH&C ghosting chip:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/mistake-chips-thc-double-thc-mold.76952/
Thank you. That was very helpful. I was thinking of eventually releasing these into the wild since I only have 3 denominations and a total of 400 or so. But I may reconsider. It’s hard because I was trying to build my Paulson set and to add another type in the mix (that seem to scarcely be for sale) could get costly. But before/if I do I will definitely sort out the ones with damage. Appreciate the input.
Thanks for the link.
Dingdingding
Two Pair
I love the design and feel of the proteges a lot. It's just a shame that BCCs quality control was so bad. Next to ghost molds once you start building a set from these you will find that there is a lot of colour variations, both on clay and even more so on the inlays.
But still, these are an awesome find and definitively one of the most beautiful chips ever made for consumers.
But still, these are an awesome find and definitively one of the most beautiful chips ever made for consumers.
Some clay chip manufacturers press chips twice during the manufacturing process. The first time is to solidify the slug (consisting of raw cut clay plus the clay inserts/spots), and the second pressing is to add the inlay and final mold markings.
This is typically done to quickly create a large number of (spotted) blanks, which are later used to create a variety of chips (sometimes with different inlays and/or mold markings, sometimes not). It's sort of the clay chip version of a production line, performing dissimilar steps separately to increase speed and minimize opportunity for errors.
Done correctly, any mold markings from the first pressing will disappear and be replaced by the markings of the mold used in the second pressing. If temp/time/pressure is not correct, the markings from the first pressing may remain (referred to as ghost marks or ghosting).
This is typically done to quickly create a large number of (spotted) blanks, which are later used to create a variety of chips (sometimes with different inlays and/or mold markings, sometimes not). It's sort of the clay chip version of a production line, performing dissimilar steps separately to increase speed and minimize opportunity for errors.
Done correctly, any mold markings from the first pressing will disappear and be replaced by the markings of the mold used in the second pressing. If temp/time/pressure is not correct, the markings from the first pressing may remain (referred to as ghost marks or ghosting).
ThinkingFold
Flush
@Joe Harris New $25 version? 
God damn it@Joe Harris New $25 version?
PhilLaFond
Straight
There a few members on here (myself included) that would happily snatch these up from you, should you decide to "release them into the wild" lol. I freakin' love Protege chips. Great find.
Found another variation of the ghost mold on a few of my chips. I tried looking on Robert Eisenstadt’s mold gallery but couldn’t find anything that matches. Can anybody shed some light on this? Looks like it’s numbers and letters from cards but not in order (ex. K 10 4 8 Q etc. )
Attachments
That’s the Courts and Numerals mold that I referenced above. It's the MD-29 on Eisenstadt's site.
https://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/molddesign_letters.htm
It was used on Sidepot's Modern Clay line, which was also made by BCC. A pic of some samples of those chips was recently posted here as part of a sale:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/sidepot-sample-set.107403/
I must admit that I have never seen such a pronounced ghost mold in person. Most of the Courts and Numerals ghost molds that I have are barely visible. The ghost mold on your example appears more pronounced than the Cigar and Sniffer mold.
https://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/molddesign_letters.htm
It was used on Sidepot's Modern Clay line, which was also made by BCC. A pic of some samples of those chips was recently posted here as part of a sale:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/sidepot-sample-set.107403/
I must admit that I have never seen such a pronounced ghost mold in person. Most of the Courts and Numerals ghost molds that I have are barely visible. The ghost mold on your example appears more pronounced than the Cigar and Sniffer mold.
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Oops. I guess I overlooked that one. Was scanning the list for something that said numbers but so was doing it on my phone and the eyesight isn’t what it used to be. Lol. Thanks for the info! And I reread what you wrote above and I misinterpreted it earlier. I thought you meant that for each of those were ghost molds on the same marking, not 2 different molds. My mistake. Yeah that courts mold is very clear.
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