Awkward spot with J8s button raise (2 Viewers)

[fish72s]

This hand last week had thinking what, if anything I did wrong. Generally I'm pretty good at avoiding awkward spots like this but not this time....

$1/$2 at the Melbourne Poker Room.
Hero is on the button with $170
BB has $150. (not much info except I think on the conservative side / not loose or aggressive.)
Not much info on other players or stack sizes.

Hero has Jh8h
Hero doesn't usually position raise with marginal hands because it just creates big, multi-way pots (with marginal hands). In this case there is only 1 pre-flop limper (from UTG+1). Even in this situation hero would prefer a stronger hand to raise but decides to bump it up to $9 expecting the blinds to fold.

Both blinds and UTG+1 all call.

Pot = $36 Flop is 9hTcJc
3 Checks to Hero.
So far I think this is fairly standard. Any option except a pot-sized bet? Bigger or smaller?

 

[detroitdad]

Bet 30.00

 

[derekdd23]

The real big issue here is that people like to call with 9T, TJ, 78, QK, QJ, QT, 99 You have 2 blockers vs them having some of those hands but are pretty dead when they have one.

I bet big here to see whats what, probably $35-40. If you get raised you can jump ship, if you get called there will be a lot of re-evaluating on the turn.

 

[DrStrange]

What went wrong? Hero raised with a dubious hand with a short stack. Risked $9 to win $5 - plus RIO risks post flop . As can happen, the dubious hand hits the flop and Hero isn't sure if he is bluffing, value betting or semi-bluffing.

Hero should bet. The board is wet but that doesn't mean villain likes it. I bet $25 and, if called, plan on checking behind most turns and bluff catching the river.

DrStrange

 

[fish72s]

with 3 checks to him, a made hand and a redraw, hero considers this a good flop but doesn't want to see a turn card.
If raised big he is prepared to fold and if called plans to check most turn cards.
Hero bets $35.
BB calls and others fold.

Pot is $106 and effective stacks are $106 behind.
turn card is another J.
BB checks.

Now what? The stack sizes seem very awkward to me. Less is an easy all-in and more perhaps could be a check(?), or smaller bet(?)

Hero really doesn't have a good idea where he stands. I think the majority of the time he is ahead but villain has outs to beat him.
But often enough he is (way) behind.

A smaller flop bet as DrStrange suggests would have pot=$96 and $116 behind. I don't think this would change the options much, or would it?

All-in ?
If checking, can we fold on the river if clubs or a Q comes?

 

[derekdd23]

What is the read on the BB? Did he call fast? Does he look comfortable? What face did he make when he saw the 2nd Jack? How fast did he check?

If he looks really comfortable or took time I usually check otherwise I jam.

 

[detroitdad]

The BB doesn't have a ton behind him at this point 120 ish? fuck the math. I'm shoving. I have trips, straight draw, and a boat draw.

 

[DrStrange]

I agree with the jam crew. This is a good card for Hero (most of the time)

DrStrange

 

[Ben]

Flop I check behind and then can easily get away unscathed on bad turns, easily proceed with much more confidence on good ones. To be more specific, this is I spot where I think we're right around 50% equity against a given opponent's range, and I think the play with position in that spot is generally a check-behind.

As played, turn is a super-easy jam with exactly a PSB behind.

 

[fish72s]

I felt the need to protect my hand was greater than the possibility of being behind (and I wasn't going to be able to fold on the river ((on most cards)) anyway)
and so I went all-in and got snapped called by AJ. I missed my 11-outer on the river. Villain boated with another ace.

For me the awkward part is the pot sized bet left behind on the turn and not really having a good idea where I was at. But from comments it sounds like I am still committed at this point. Where would ya'll draw the line for the option of a different play on the turn? $150 behind, $200?

I don't mind my preflop raise. I don't do it often and since I play pretty tight in general I fell like I need to mix it up some. I do wish my hand would have been a little better though. But even so J8s is 'bad' enough that I'm not going to get married to very many flops.

I think I created the situation with my bet sizes. $7 or $8 preflop might have been better and $20 on the flop.
In this case I would have 2 PSBs behind on the turn.
Then maybe I can check and on the river either pick off a bluff, fold to a scare card or minimize my loss when I am behind.

 

[DrStrange]

"Mixing it up" is greatly over rated in a casino setting. The villains come and go so fast that you can safely play ABC and not get exploited.

If your style was LAG - that is different. Though I still would have doubts about splashing around with 85bb, LAG thrives with deeper stacks. We have a solid clue that LAG isn't your style of choice by the thread title. From a LAG point of view, Hero flopped good and turned better.

Hero is going to have a hard time trips vs trips. The wet board might help keep the pot small, but the root of the problem is the preflop play. That decision sets the table for the rest of the hand.

DrStrange

 

[fish72s]

"Mixing it up" is greatly over rated in a casino setting. The villains come and go so fast that you can safely play ABC and not get exploited.

If your style was LAG - that is different. Though I still would have doubts about splashing around with 85bb, LAG thrives with deeper stacks. We have a solid clue that LAG isn't your style of choice by the thread title. From a LAG point of view, Hero flopped good and turned better.

Hero is going to have a hard time trips vs trips. The wet board might help keep the pot small, but the root of the problem is the preflop play. That decision sets the table for the rest of the hand.

DrStrange

I agree with all of this and at a new card room I rarely get out of line (at least when I'm thinking and playing well

Melbourne does have a large percentage of regulars. I should actually know them better but I have a general idea of who is tight. loose, aggressive, and passive.
And many of them know me. I want them to think that I don't necessarily have a big hand when I raise.
3 or 4 weeks ago in a similar situation I raised with J9 and got 3 callers. I turned a straight and got all the $$$ in against a competent player. I didn't see his hand but I did see the look on his face when I said 'nuts' and I guarantee he remembered that I raised J9 preflop