BadCardHaver
Pair
I play in a semi-regular game with some friends and do not think I was really being angled, but this last game left me with a bad taste in my mouth. The guy who hosts it always talks about how he loves 'action' and that is why he is always pushing for circus games and split pot games that I think slow the game down and are very bad for newer players. We resolved that issue by doing a dealers choice button that basically goes the opposite direction for the dealer button and we have limited the circus games to once an orbit.
The problem I had with the last game is he was constantly wanting to run it twice every time it would get heads up, specifically with 2 regs in the game that were directly to his right. These 3 are the regulars in this game and the other 4 players were people I have brought to the game who play occasionally (like myself). They were all 150-300bb's deep and it is my understanding that you need somebody all in to run it twice. Nobody was close to all in on any of these. We are also playing small stakes (.50/$1 blinds) so I don't really see the need to reduce variance or whatever the justification would be. Especially if you're always talking about how you love 'action'.
The usual pattern would be a pre flop raise by the host, it would fold around to one of the other 2 players, he would call and the host would immediately say, 'how about we put $5 (or $10) in and run it twice?" Which they would then do.
One hand we were playing some variant of hold 'em where you get three hole cards. I raised to $3 (standard raise in this game), host raised to $10, which is a very large pre-flop raise in this game. Of course, this folded me and everyone else out except one of the regulars. They then put in $10 and ran it twice. The host turns over 7-8-10 rainbow. This hand allows for no flushes or full house possibilities, which I thought was strange to be aggressive with in a game that usually will take a bare minimum of a high straight to win. I folded 8-9-10 and would have hit a straight on the first board and won the hand. I folded because with a $10 pre-flop raise, I realized I was probably looking at somewhere between $60-$100 in bets if I continued to the river and didn't want to get in a big pot with this hand. Of course, If I knew I could call and end the action with a max risk of $20 (presuming the other regs folded) I would be a lot more likely to play the hand.
Let me be clear, I do not think I was intentionally being angled. One of the regs is a very good friend of mine, and the host and other reg are good dudes. A more likely scenario is that he saw it being run twice in a TV show and thinks this is something 'good' players do.
I feel this can appear to be collusion, by forcing players who have put money into the pot to fold with the expectation that the pot will be large, and keeps pots artificially low greatly reducing their risk. Also, it is impossible to run a bluff against a guy when running it twice and if I sometimes agree to run it twice and sometimes don't, that can be a pretty easy tell.
My question is, is it a normal rule to only allow running it twice when someone is all in, or am I being a baby about this? I am hesitant to say anything, because I feel they kind of look at me as a whiner since I objected to a game when we were playing circus games every hand and played 6 hands in an hour. They accommodated me on that with the dealers choice button and I don't want to be the guy that is a perceived whiner.
Let me know what you think.
The problem I had with the last game is he was constantly wanting to run it twice every time it would get heads up, specifically with 2 regs in the game that were directly to his right. These 3 are the regulars in this game and the other 4 players were people I have brought to the game who play occasionally (like myself). They were all 150-300bb's deep and it is my understanding that you need somebody all in to run it twice. Nobody was close to all in on any of these. We are also playing small stakes (.50/$1 blinds) so I don't really see the need to reduce variance or whatever the justification would be. Especially if you're always talking about how you love 'action'.
The usual pattern would be a pre flop raise by the host, it would fold around to one of the other 2 players, he would call and the host would immediately say, 'how about we put $5 (or $10) in and run it twice?" Which they would then do.
One hand we were playing some variant of hold 'em where you get three hole cards. I raised to $3 (standard raise in this game), host raised to $10, which is a very large pre-flop raise in this game. Of course, this folded me and everyone else out except one of the regulars. They then put in $10 and ran it twice. The host turns over 7-8-10 rainbow. This hand allows for no flushes or full house possibilities, which I thought was strange to be aggressive with in a game that usually will take a bare minimum of a high straight to win. I folded 8-9-10 and would have hit a straight on the first board and won the hand. I folded because with a $10 pre-flop raise, I realized I was probably looking at somewhere between $60-$100 in bets if I continued to the river and didn't want to get in a big pot with this hand. Of course, If I knew I could call and end the action with a max risk of $20 (presuming the other regs folded) I would be a lot more likely to play the hand.
Let me be clear, I do not think I was intentionally being angled. One of the regs is a very good friend of mine, and the host and other reg are good dudes. A more likely scenario is that he saw it being run twice in a TV show and thinks this is something 'good' players do.
I feel this can appear to be collusion, by forcing players who have put money into the pot to fold with the expectation that the pot will be large, and keeps pots artificially low greatly reducing their risk. Also, it is impossible to run a bluff against a guy when running it twice and if I sometimes agree to run it twice and sometimes don't, that can be a pretty easy tell.
My question is, is it a normal rule to only allow running it twice when someone is all in, or am I being a baby about this? I am hesitant to say anything, because I feel they kind of look at me as a whiner since I objected to a game when we were playing circus games every hand and played 6 hands in an hour. They accommodated me on that with the dealers choice button and I don't want to be the guy that is a perceived whiner.
Let me know what you think.
