Cash Game Advice for chips needed for 50c/$1 $20 Buy-In NL Game

Thomacetti

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No typo, it's a shove fest game

FYP :)

I think your game would improve with a better blind approach.
And this would benefit the good players (hoping it's you)....but that was all posted before.

Play 25c/25c in blinds and up buy-in with $5
One table for 8 or 9 max...10 you split in 5 & 5 imho

200 25c
200 $1
100 $5

Buy-in is 20 quarters & 20 $1 chips...rebuys with fivers (20 rebuys total)

Future proof (can always add $5 and $20 chips if game or buy-in grows)
 

BGinGA

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A -- "Hey, we're going fishing today. Wanna go with us?"

B -- "Sure, I love fishing! What kind of fishing? I'm well-equiped for just about any type."

A -- "It's great! We go down to the local YMCA, put dirty socks on a clothes-hanger hook, and then hold them with our outstretched arms while we dip 'em into the kiddie pool. We never catch anything, but we've been doing it for years. It's a lot of fun."

B -- "Uh, yeah, I'm sure it is. That sorta *looks* like fishing.... you have hooks, bait, and water, but..... I think I'll pass."
 

JustinInMN

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For some reason I thought he was using .50 fracs, but I guess with quarters I’d still want more than 60.

He did say above the players won't use anything less than 0.50 chip. I also use 0.50 fracs in my set, and I only put out 50-60 per table and it's plenty. If I used 0.25 fracs, I would put out 100 per table.

But last time I hosted 0.50-1 I did 60 fracs (0.50) and 100 singles, per table and I found that we were actually very light on singles. Hoping to host again soon and I will probably do 140-160 singles.
 

mike32

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A -- "Hey, we're going fishing today. Wanna go with us?"

B -- "Sure, I love fishing! What kind of fishing? I'm well-equiped for just about any type."

A -- "It's great! We go down to the local YMCA, put dirty socks on a clothes-hanger hook, and then hold them with our outstretched arms while we dip 'em into the kiddie pool. We never catch anything, but we've been doing it for years. It's a lot of fun."

B -- "Uh, yeah, I'm sure it is. That sorta *looks* like fishing.... you have hooks, bait, and water, but..... I think I'll pass."
My son has been playing .25/.25 NLHE with a $20 buy in with his buddies for a little over a year now. These are kids he played baseball, football etc. with growing up. His dad (me) did the same thing. These guys play for hours and have fun, I have sat in on several games. I hope he is still friends with these guys 35 years later and still playing low stakes poker like his dad is. Is that so wrong?

I understand deep games are different and yes there is more actual poker being played, I just don't understand the elitist attitude. In the shallow games a $3 bet is a big bet that players respect. There is a certain tact to knowing your crowd and not playing "correct" because in this instance you are not actually sitting down to try and take all the money. I understand why some people would not want to play in these types of games and that is fine, but no need to bash people who do.
 

BGinGA

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My son has been playing .25/.25 NLHE with a $20 buy in with his buddies for a little over a year now. These are kids he played baseball, football etc. with growing up. His dad (me) did the same thing. These guys play for hours and have fun, I have sat in on several games. I hope he is still friends with these guys 35 years later and still playing low stakes poker like his dad is. Is that so wrong?

I understand deep games are different and yes there is more actual poker being played, I just don't understand the elitist attitude. In the shallow games a $3 bet is a big bet that players respect. There is a certain tact to knowing your crowd and not playing "correct" because in this instance you are not actually sitting down to try and take all the money. I understand why some people would not want to play in these types of games and that is fine, but no need to bash people who do.
No elitist attitude here. There is a huge difference between 25c/25c and 50c/$1 with $20 stacks. Four times as many big blinds. That's HUGE..... and with 80bb, actually playable as legitimate poker.

But 20bb cash stacks may resemble poker, but is not actually poker as it was designed to be played. It contains none of the many facets that make poker a mentally challenging and fascinating game. That's not elitist, just fact.
 

JustinInMN

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My son has been playing .25/.25 NLHE with a $20 buy in with his buddies for a little over a year now. These are kids he played baseball, football etc. with growing up. His dad (me) did the same thing. These guys play for hours and have fun, I have sat in on several games. I hope he is still friends with these guys 35 years later and still playing low stakes poker like his dad is. Is that so wrong?

No elitist attitude here. There is a huge difference between 25c/25c and 50c/$1 with $20 stacks. Four times as many big blinds. That's HUGE..... and with 80bb, actually playable as legitimate poker.

Right the equivalent in a 0.25-0.25 game compared to the game the OP describes is a $5 buy-in.

When we talk about whether a game is "deep" or "shallow" in this sense we are talking about the size of the max buy in terms of how many big blinds it represents, not in terms of actual money.

I know tournament and cash are vastly different, but I think using the comparison here helps illustrate.

The game in the OP has a max buy in of only 20BB, so think like it's the end of a tournament and players are really forced to do all their maneuvering early in hands. Buy ins that offer 100BB stacks usually allow play on all streets.

So a 0.05-0.10 game with a 20 buy in is actually much "deeper" than a 0.50-1 game with the same buy in.

In other words, we aren't trying to shame anyone for wanting to play 20 max, we are saying the blinds are way too high to allow meaningful play beyond the first betting round or two.
 
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Highli99

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My son has been playing .25/.25 NLHE with a $20 buy in with his buddies for a little over a year now. These are kids he played baseball, football etc. with growing up. His dad (me) did the same thing. These guys play for hours and have fun, I have sat in on several games. I hope he is still friends with these guys 35 years later and still playing low stakes poker like his dad is. Is that so wrong?

I understand deep games are different and yes there is more actual poker being played, I just don't understand the elitist attitude. In the shallow games a $3 bet is a big bet that players respect. There is a certain tact to knowing your crowd and not playing "correct" because in this instance you are not actually sitting down to try and take all the money. I understand why some people would not want to play in these types of games and that is fine, but no need to bash people who do.
I think it’s okay to criticize the game someone plays, but I agree we should not criticize individuals. I don’t think anyone is bashing the OP. The game OP plays is pretty highly tilted to variance and luck as compared to deeper games that shift poker to a game of skill. I don’t think it’s elitist to point that out. OP seems aware of this and if it works for his group....fantastic.

since many of us are thinking players who study the game, we are taken aback by OP’s game. It isn’t the stakes either since many of us play similar stakes just organized in a different manner. We’d equally criticize a $1,000 buy in game with blinds of $50/$100.

And, despite the odd game set up I think folks have given useful advice for OP to consider as they buy higher end chips.
 

JustinInMN

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since many of us are thinking players who study the game, we are taken aback by OP’s game. It isn’t the stakes either since many of us play similar stakes just organized in a different manner. We’d equally criticize a $1,000 buy in game with blinds of $50/$100.

I never... I never told anybody this.

About eight, nine months ago, I'm at the Taj, it's late,

and I see Johnny Chan walk in.

And he goes, he sits three-hundred six-hundred.

And the whole place stops when Johnny Chan walks in.

Everybody puts an eye on him.

After a little while, there wasn't a crap game going...

'cause all the high rollers are over there watching him.

Some are playing with him, giving away their money to this guy to say...

"Oh, I played with the World Champion."

And you know what I did? I sat down.

Nah, you need fifty, sixty grand to play right in that game.

Well, I had six, but I had to know.


What happened?

Played tight for an hour. I folded mostly, and then I made a score.

- Wired aces or kings? - Rags.

I had nothing. But he raised.

And I just decided, you know, I don't care about the money.

I'm just gonna outplay the guy.

I'm just gonna outplay this guy this hand.

- I re-raised. - Re-raise.

- You played right back at him, huh? - Oh, yeah.

And he just comes right back over the top of me,

trying to bully me like I'm some fucking tourist.

I hesitate for two seconds. I re-raised.

And he makes a move toward his checks, and he looks at me.

And he looks at his cards, and he looks at me again.

And he mucked it. I took it down.

"Did you have it?" "I'm sorry, John. I don't remember."

I got up, and I walked to the cashier.
 

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I appreciate all the feedback. I think I have a good idea of what I will need now.

I know the game is a little wacky. It's definitely a luck-based game as only half who play have some poker knowledge.

Before I started playing, the most painful dealers choice game (7 Burner) was uncapped and the pots got up to $300. Meaning if the player lost, they would have to match the $300 pot size. When a player put his fist through the table after a loss, they capped the game.

Now it's a game designed to welcome all of our closest friends and one where not too much money is won or lost to prevent loss of friendships.

PS. The games name is Steel on Steel. Like?
 
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Absolutely not criticizing anybody's strategy, game, or playing preference, but I humbly disagree that 20BB has to be a shovefest. I buy in most of the time for $20 in our .50 / $1 game, which plays more like a $1 / $2 or even $3 / $5 (depending on who shows up), and I have a long track record of doing well. Most players buy in for $60 to $100 ($200 is the max buy in).

We run a cash game series from labor day through Super Bowl Sunday where you get plus or minus points for your wins or losses.

Below are 2 screen shots. The top one is the 2019 cash game series (didn't do 2020) and the bottom is our all time winner list (the Alpha Club). Not too shabby (+$4k) for $20 at a time. And, I have won 5 out of 11 seasons. Good news (for my peeps) is that I give most of it back during drunken cash games. AND....I need to win the damn Alpha Shootout, which sends the winner to play in the Main Event. :)

20201229_101430.jpg
20201229_101502.jpg
 

Eriks

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Absolutely not criticizing anybody's strategy, game, or playing preference, but I humbly disagree that 20BB has to be a shovefest. I buy in most of the time for $20 in our .50 / $1 game, which plays more like a $1 / $2 or even $3 / $5 (depending on who shows up), and I have a long track record of doing well. Most players buy in for $60 to $100 ($200 is the max buy in).

We run a cash game series from labor day through Super Bowl Sunday where you get plus or minus points for your wins or losses.

Below are 2 screen shots. The top one is the 2019 cash game series (didn't do 2020) and the bottom is our all time winner list (the Alpha Club). Not too shabby (+$4k) for $20 at a time. And, I have won 5 out of 11 seasons. Good news (for my peeps) is that I give most of it back during drunken cash games. AND....I need to win the damn Alpha Shootout, which sends the winner to play in the Main Event. :)

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I love to play deep so I can splash around with speculative hands. I would be so tilted if I had a 20bb stack that kept shoving over my light opens :)
 

Highli99

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Absolutely not criticizing anybody's strategy, game, or playing preference, but I humbly disagree that 20BB has to be a shovefest. I buy in most of the time for $20 in our .50 / $1 game, which plays more like a $1 / $2 or even $3 / $5 (depending on who shows up), and I have a long track record of doing well. Most players buy in for $60 to $100 ($200 is the max buy in).

We run a cash game series from labor day through Super Bowl Sunday where you get plus or minus points for your wins or losses.

Below are 2 screen shots. The top one is the 2019 cash game series (didn't do 2020) and the bottom is our all time winner list (the Alpha Club). Not too shabby (+$4k) for $20 at a time. And, I have won 5 out of 11 seasons. Good news (for my peeps) is that I give most of it back during drunken cash games. AND....I need to win the damn Alpha Shootout, which sends the winner to play in the Main Event. :)

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Buying in short to a deeper stacked game is a totally different beast and completely acceptable strategy. If properly executed it’s a great way to have very profitable sessions. The difference is $200 max vs $20 max.
 

CrazyEddie

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I think it’s okay to criticize the game someone plays, but I agree we should not criticize individuals.
"Hey, you're a decent guy and everything, but you're playing in a retarded game. No offense, buddy."

Don't criticize the game someone plays when they come to you asking for help about chips to support their game. Criticize their game when they come to you asking for advice about changing their game.
 

shorticus

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"Hey, you're a decent guy and everything, but you're playing in a retarded game. No offense, buddy."

Don't criticize the game someone plays when they come to you asking for help about chips to support their game. Criticize their game when they come to you asking for advice about changing their game.
I think it’s fair to offer both if your intent is truly to help out.

If your intention is only to be a dick, then Id agree, but the idea of “hey, I know you asked about this, but your game may also be better if you took “x” route” is perfectly fine in my opinion. Our community is here to help and sometimes you find answers that you aren’t even looking for.
 

upNdown

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I think it’s fair to offer both if your intent is truly to help out.

If your intention is only to be a dick, then Id agree, but the idea of “hey, I know you asked about this, but your game may also be better if you took “x” route” is perfectly fine in my opinion. Our community is here to help and sometimes you find answers that you aren’t even looking for.
That's what I think. I feel like if somebody gets a bunch of chip recommendations and just a coupe of people saying his game is flawed, he might just ignore those couple of people. But if a whole lot of people reply, saying his game is flawed, maybe he'll listen and think about it.
 

BGinGA

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Absolutely not criticizing anybody's strategy, game, or playing preference, but I humbly disagree that 20BB has to be a shovefest. I buy in most of the time for $20 in our .50 / $1 game, which plays more like a $1 / $2 or even $3 / $5 (depending on who shows up), and I have a long track record of doing well. Most players buy in for $60 to $100 ($200 is the max buy in).

We run a cash game series from labor day through Super Bowl Sunday where you get plus or minus points for your wins or losses.

Below are 2 screen shots. The top one is the 2019 cash game series (didn't do 2020) and the bottom is our all time winner list (the Alpha Club). Not too shabby (+$4k) for $20 at a time. And, I have won 5 out of 11 seasons. Good news (for my peeps) is that I give most of it back during drunken cash games. AND....I need to win the damn Alpha Shootout, which sends the winner to play in the Main Event. :)

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Nice brag post, but has zero in common with a 50c/$1 game with capped $20 buy-ins. Short-stack strategy in a deep-stack game is an entirely different animal than a game limited to 20bb stacks.
 

JustinInMN

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I know the game is a little wacky. It's definitely a luck-based game as only half who play have some poker knowledge.

Before I started playing, the most painful dealers choice game (7 Burner) was uncapped and the pots got up to $300. Meaning if the player lost, they would have to match the $300 pot size. When a player put his fist through the table after a loss, they capped the game.

Well good luck, and be sure to post pr0n of the finished product. :).

I hope you aren't too bothered by our recoil about what think is an unusual structure, but it is important to know the nature of the game to best optimize the breakdown needed, and also give you something to think about when planning this set if you were ever to transition to a more common, deeper format.
 

Highli99

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"Hey, you're a decent guy and everything, but you're playing in a retarded game. No offense, buddy."

Don't criticize the game someone plays when they come to you asking for help about chips to support their game. Criticize their game when they come to you asking for advice about changing their game.
If the suggestion is offered without sarcasm and condescending tone it’s okay and appropriate. Pretending to ignore a very non-standard context is like telling the naked emperor “yes, that tie looks amazing with your suit”. A little lite joking is okay and I don’t think anyone was mean.

I also don’t think the OP took offense. He knows his game is different but it works for his crew. he was also given decent suggestions by some others.
 

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Thomacetti

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Absolutely not criticizing anybody's strategy, game, or playing preference, but I humbly disagree that 20BB has to be a shovefest. I buy in most of the time for $20 in our .50 / $1 game, which plays more like a $1 / $2 or even $3 / $5 (depending on who shows up), and I have a long track record of doing well. Most players buy in for $60 to $100 ($200 is the max buy in).

We run a cash game series from labor day through Super Bowl Sunday where you get plus or minus points for your wins or losses.

Below are 2 screen shots. The top one is the 2019 cash game series (didn't do 2020) and the bottom is our all time winner list (the Alpha Club). Not too shabby (+$4k) for $20 at a time. And, I have won 5 out of 11 seasons. Good news (for my peeps) is that I give most of it back during drunken cash games. AND....I need to win the damn Alpha Shootout, which sends the winner to play in the Main Event. :)

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Great results Kevin...i presume you play an awsome pre-flop game if you prefer to buy in (that) short.
 
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Great results Kevin...i presume you play an awsome pre-flop game if you prefer to buy in (that) short.
Thanks. Patience, and willingness to fold are huge parts of my "disciplened" game. I say disciplined because I play a ton of drunk poker too, which is never disciplined, and can get expensive.

I've just always played that way, even when I go to Vegas. I used to buy in for $40 on $1 / $2 games, but now the min at most places is $80 or $100. My poker peeps laugh at me, but I budget $100 per day when in Vegas playing $1 / $2. I don't generally win a ton in Vegas, but with the exception of a couple of times, I have come back positive.

I start fairly tight, but my range gets pretty wide when I'm playing with other peep's money. Love suited connectors and small pairs, but gotta be willing to fold if you miss the flop, or if there's a ton of raising pre flop. I generally play small ball with weaker hands. A typical night for me will be in for $120 ($20 at a a time), and out for $200 to $400. I think my biggest win ever was +$1,400 and my biggest loss was -$700. The down $700 would have only been down $300 if I stuck to my $20 buy in, but got stupid because we were running out of time and started buying in $100 at a time....LOL.
 
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