Cash Game A player at my home game likes to show one of his cards during the hand (river), thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[TudiscoKid]

Hi guys,

Long story short, a player and friend of mine at my cash games likes to play psychological poker and talk a lot of BS, make comments etc. this is fine since it's part of the game altough it can be too much after 5 hours of playing.
One thing he's been doing multiple times at each session though, is showing one of his cards to the other player right before last action is made (typically he would bet big or go all in, then tell the other player "I will show you one card").
I've always thought that this is a bit cheeky/dumb, but he does take that approach with poker.

Last session though, he did tell the other player "I'm going to show you one" and the other player said no, turning his head away and hiding his sight from the yet-to-be revealed card. That player despite it all, revealed the card, so I instantly told him no to do that if the other player doesn't want to see it, and turned the card face down. He then went on to announce the card out loud.

I have told him that this is ill behavior and that he should not repeat it, he then told me he could do what he wanted since it's heads up on the river.
Another player looked that up and found that in that situation you cannot only show one card, but you should show both if you wanted to play it like this.

I'm banning this from now on, what do you guys think?

 

[Machine]

As long as its a cash game, its his hand, if he want to expose it and give the other player information, I would let play. It is actually to his detriment and over time it will hurt him more than help him.

It is odd to not want the information.

 

[TudiscoKid]

As long as its a cash game, its his hand, if he want to expose it and give the other player information, I would let play. It is actually to his detriment and over time it will hurt him more than help him.

Yeah but what about if the other player refuses to see the card?

Obviously it's a move made to confuse the other player, and the wrong choice from said player can be made following that move, which he would have maybe not done without seeing the card.

If he asks "do you want to see a card?" and then the other players says yes, no problem. But I'm having an issue when it's forced upon the other player.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Yeah but what about if the other player refuses to see the card?

Obviously it's a move made to confuse the other player, and the wrong choice from said player can be made following that move, which he would have maybe not done without seeing the card.

If he asks "do you want to see a card?" and then the other players says yes, no problem. But I'm having an issue when it's forced upon the other player.

So hes showing one of his cards to people while playing poker, and your players are upset? What am I missing? This isnt Louis CK, I dont need another player to consent to seeing my card lol.

 

[Machine]

Yeah but what about if the other player refuses to see the card?

To me this is more ignorant than showing your cards.

If he asks "do you want to see a card?" and then the other players says yes, no problem. But I'm having an issue when it's forced upon the other player.

forced upon? forced?

 

[TudiscoKid]

So hes showing one of his cards to people while playing poker, and your players are upset? What am I missing? This isnt Louis CK, I dont need another player to consent to seeing my card lol.

while the hand is still going, yes.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

while the hand is still going, yes.

Why is it confusing to show another player your card? Why is that a bad thing?

 

[Halozz]

I'll be glad he show me a card everytime free information why not

 

[TudiscoKid]

Why is it confusing to show another player your card? Why is that a bad thing?

Because he could very much show a card to make the other player call or fold depending on what he's aiming for. For instance showing the A of spades with a flush draw, while he may have a brick as a second card.

Like I said, that's not so much that move that bothers me, but the fact that he disregarded the other player's choice not to be shown that card before he makes a decision on a call or fold.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Because he could very much show a card to make the other player call or fold depending on what he's aiming for. For instance showing the A of spades with a flush draw, while he may have a brick as a second card.

Like I said, that's not so much that move that bothers me, but the fact that he disregarded the other player's choice not to be shown that card before he makes a decision on a call or fold.

One time a player told me not to bet and I bet anyways. I felt like I was angling him by betting anyways to improve my chances of winning.

Sorry dude. Most of my games are with beginners/learners anyways, but none are this soft. Gotta get over it.

 

[chippitydoodah]

As long as its a cash game, its his hand, if he want to expose it and give the other player information, I would let play. It is actually to his detriment and over time it will hurt him more than help him.

It is odd to not want the information.

He's obviously offering his strength card to distract a call (let's say a high club with 3 clubs on the board)

 

[Machine]

Because he could very much show a card to make the other player call or fold depending on what he's aiming for. For instance showing the A of spades with a flush draw, while he may have a brick as a second card.

Like I said, that's not so much that move that bothers me, but the fact that he disregarded the other player's choice not to be shown that card before he makes a decision on a call or fold.

Well if its that he disregarded other players request, you could always not invite him.

 

[KHarp1]

I could be wrong, but, I don't know of anywhere its written that a player can't show his card in a cash game, when it's heads up. Not sure where the "if you show one you have to show both," unless you're reading into collecting the pot. I'm aware of the no show in tourneys, but, never heard of this in a heads up cash game. Can you point me to where that's written?

 

[nlhenerd]

This is a game of information asymmetry and he's giving away a lot of info.

If the other player doesn't want to know the card (which I think is a weird stance to take) and he's super offended by having new information, you could say that one or both of these things is true:
- The person trying to not have more information is being unreasonable and oversensitive- making an issue out of something that's not an issue.
- The person showing the card is being an ass hole.

I think being an ass hole is a bannable offense, but in this particular situation with the information I have (which is really just words representing your perspective, not the "whole story") it seems like the first guy is also being a little ridiculous. Moreso than guy showing his card, who will be punished for this over time as he reveals too much information.

It's really okay to not invite someone back because you don't like them.

 

[Kentucky]

I know you said he’s your friend, but I’m banning dicks from my game not coming up with page after page of disallowed behaviors. Dude, if you can’t be civil and have a friendly game with my friends then don’t come back.

 

[LeLe]

Showing 1 card had always been a thing in poker during head-up, kinda like speech play in poker (These are traits of an action player)
In fact, it added more fun and added another interesting information to the hand.

I will welcome play like that from the player who are showing.

If anything, the player who asking not to show and you considering to ban this is like being a party pooper

Another player looked that up and found that in that situation you cannot only show one card, but you should show both if you wanted to play it like this.

Pretty sure that is not a thing, your players are confused by similar rule like the follow

You need to show TWO cards to win in showdown unless the other mucks or

You can show ZERO card in tourney as to prevent collation

 

[nlhenerd]

I know you said he’s your friend, but I’m banning dicks from my game not coming up with page after page of disallowed behaviors. Dude, if you can’t be civil and have a friendly game with my friends then don’t come back.

This. I've banned players from my game for:
- shouting their political beliefs at another player
- berating new players for playing badly
- reserving a seat, not showing up and not responding to mid-game texts about attendance more than once

Aaaand I don't write down rules. I've verbally told people the only rule is "don't be an ass hole." Even better- "be kind." It's my social event and I invite people I want to spend time with. When people ask what I'm looking for in a player, it's really social engagement. I'm trying to create an atmosphere of fellowship where friends can be made.

 

[LotsOfChips]

1) If a player wants to give away information for free, you should allow and encourage him to do so (IMO)
2 If a player doesn't want to see the other player give away information for free, but the other player gives it away anyway, see #1.
3) If a player refuses a host request (and then argues about it), perhaps the player could be reprimanded/talked to/disinvited.
4) It's your house, your game, your rules. Although if the rule wasn't written down or discussed pre-game, I could see how that could cause some questioning mid-game.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

My head is about to explode. (My guess is Villain is disliked for other reasons) Let me get this straight, you don't want him to show a card? (This dude sounds like he's in your head) This is very important information & totally legal. If you follow the pattern you can probably extract or save a lot of $$$. I welcome anyone to show me one or both of their cards when we're heads up. (I would NEVER consider it rude) Dumb maybe!! Do you guys allow check-raising & or bluffing at this "game?"

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

Hi guys,

Long story short, a player and friend of mine at my cash games likes to play psychological poker and talk a lot of BS, make comments etc. this is fine since it's part of the game altough it can be too much after 5 hours of playing.
One thing he's been doing multiple times at each session though, is showing one of his cards to the other player right before last action is made (typically he would bet big or go all in, then tell the other player "I will show you one card").
I've always thought that this is a bit cheeky/dumb, but he does take that approach with poker.

Last session though, he did tell the other player "I'm going to show you one" and the other player said no, turning his head away and hiding his sight from the yet-to-be revealed card. That player despite it all, revealed the card, so I instantly told him no to do that if the other player doesn't want to see it, and turned the card face down. He then went on to announce the card out loud.

I have told him that this is ill behavior and that he should not repeat it, he then told me he could do what he wanted since it's heads up on the river.
Another player looked that up and found that in that situation you cannot only show one card, but you should show both if you wanted to play it like this.

I'm banning this from now on, what do you guys think?

But YES you can make any rule you want. It's YOUR game & you can invite or not invite anyone you want.

 

[dpeks13]

I’m with pretty much everyone. I know a guy like this. He thinks he is trying to get information, but he’s really giving everyone else info on himself.
I like free info

 

[merkong]

Can I ask him to hold on until I get my glasses?

 

[AuburnSeth]

I'll be glad he show me a card everytime free information why not

Hi guys,

Long story short, a player and friend of mine at my cash games likes to play psychological poker and talk a lot of BS, make comments etc. this is fine since it's part of the game altough it can be too much after 5 hours of playing.
One thing he's been doing multiple times at each session though, is showing one of his cards to the other player right before last action is made (typically he would bet big or go all in, then tell the other player "I will show you one card").
I've always thought that this is a bit cheeky/dumb, but he does take that approach with poker.

Last session though, he did tell the other player "I'm going to show you one" and the other player said no, turning his head away and hiding his sight from the yet-to-be revealed card. That player despite it all, revealed the card, so I instantly told him no to do that if the other player doesn't want to see it, and turned the card face down. He then went on to announce the card out loud.

I have told him that this is ill behavior and that he should not repeat it, he then told me he could do what he wanted since it's heads up on the river.
Another player looked that up and found that in that situation you cannot only show one card, but you should show both if you wanted to play it like this.

I'm banning this from now on, what do you guys think?

please show us your cards. It gives information That we otherwise are guessing about

 

[AuburnSeth]

My head is about to explode. (My guess is Villain is disliked for other reasons) Let me get this straight, you don't want him to show a card? (This dude sounds like he's in your head) This is very important information & totally legal. If you follow the pattern you can probably extract or save a lot of $$$. I welcome anyone to show me one or both of their cards when we're heads up. (I would NEVER consider it rude) Dumb maybe!! Do you guys allow check-raising & or bluffing at this "game?"

What games don’t allow check raising? check raising is one of only a few actions you can even do.
I’ve heard this vaguely reference before, where someone implied that a game doesn’t allow check raising, and that is bananas to me

 

[Eriks]

Is it Eric Persson?

 

[AuburnSeth]

Is it Eric Persson?

You are.

 

[TheOffalo]

My guess is Villain is disliked for other reasons

I agree. It’s gotta be about the guy being obnoxious and disrespectful (to the other player and then to the host) even if it’s +EV to get the extra info.

There are some people who lose money at the table who you wouldn’t want to play with, and there are others who take money but make a fun game. It’s not always about being optimal.

 

[Eriks]

You are.

Like to think I’m pretty far from

 

[Legend5555]

The idea that the other player needs to agree to be shown a card is, no offense, one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Does the other player have to agree to be bet into too? Players should be thrilled to get MORE information to make a more informed decision. The fact that the other guy didn't want to see the card is hilariously silly to me. Sounds like he, and maybe others, are just playing right into this guys hands.

It's a home game. They can use whatever rules they want. If they want to stop this, then just have rules like a tournament where you aren't allowed to show cards even heads up. But in general you can show your cards mid hand in a cash game heads up. Hell, he could show one before the river if he wanted to. I've seen guys play entire heads up pots with one card revealed.

I also don't get why you would want to discourage this behavior. Having more information is better than not even when it's obviously intended by him to get a particular result. It's just another thing he does that players can use to their advantage to try and understand his line.

Sounds to me like this is really just about the fact that you and others find him obnoxious. It's a home game, no one has to invite him.

Consent to being shown a card... Still gets me

 

[Eriks]

i agree with everyone. Take the free info and punish him for his stupidity. If you don’t like him and/or his antics, disinvite or get noise cancellation head phones.

I’ve definitely stopped inviting some people over the years simply because they annoy me. If I’m lucky I get to play live once every or every other month. I want to be able to enjoy those rare evenings.