Tourney 4 cards dealt on flop (2 Viewers)

Beakertwang

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This happened Sunday in our tourney. The dealer somehow spread 4 cards on flop.

Not to delay the game by searching, I made a ruling to return the four cards to the stub, reshuffle the stub, and deal the flop with no burn. Everyone agreed.

Is that the correct ruling?
 
If you know the order of the cards and can determine the “4th card” then I would just keep the flop and declare that 4th card as the exposed burn card for the turn.
I had folded and stepped away from the table for a minute. They called me for a ruling. That was the first thing I asked, but no one st the table could say with any degree of certainty which card would be the next burn card.
 
If you know the order of the cards and can determine the “4th card” then I would just keep the flop and declare that 4th card as the exposed burn card for the turn.
This is what I would do first, assuming the 4th card was dead nuts known. If not, my original statement would be the second option.
 
But don't quote me. If you want the "right" answer - paging @BGinGA
 
If totally unknown, this is not official at all but I would roll the next card off (the would be turn), burn a card and deal the would be river then shuffle the 4 revealed cards back with the stub and deal the 3rd flop card. Then proceed with turn and river. Probably too confusing but at least it maintains as much of the true board as possible.
 
If you know the order of the cards and can determine the “4th card” then I would just keep the flop and declare that 4th card as the exposed burn card for the turn.
Imo, ^that^ is the most logical and quickest way to resolve it. But unfortunately, it's not what the rule books state:

TDA:
39: Four-Card Flops and Premature Cards

If the flop has 4 rather than 3 cards, exposed or not, the floor will be called. The dealer then scrambles the 4 cards face down, the floor randomly selects one as the next burn card and the other 3 are the flop.

RROP:
Section 5: Hold'em
3. If the flop contains too many cards, it must be redealt. (This applies even if it were possible to know which card was the extra one.)
7, If the flop needs to be redealt for any reason, the boardcards are mixed with the remainder of the deck. The burncard remains on the table. After shuffling, the dealer cuts the deck and deals a new flop without burning a card.


Fwiw, I never really cared for the RROP rule, especially if the extra card was known/identified (it's merely the burn card for the turn). I dislike it mostly because it doesn't attempt to accurately re-create the intended flop, plus it essentially treats all of the initial flop cards (if exposed) as extra information available to all players, even though it might benefit some more than others.

The latest TDA rule is an improvement imo, and is written to cover all scenarios of a four-card flop (known order or not, exposed or not, etc.) and treat them all in exactly the same way. Interesting that they don't address flops containing more than four cards.
 
Interesting that they don't address flops containing more than four cards.

Because at the point I'm pretty sure you just punch the dealer in the nuts, tell him to pack his shit, and GTFO.

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You might want to stress the proper way for a dealer to count three cards face down before revealing the flop.

Also, on a personal note, this is not something I have addressed in my home game. It may be one of the very rare instances I would support a house rule similar to what @BGinGA said.
 
Actually had this happen just a few weeks ago. When it was Mr. Fumble Thumbs' (AKA: ME) turn to deal...

Burn one, count 3 face down & flip 'em over. Only to find that 2 of the cheap paper cards had stuck together when they were spread out to reveal 4.

Since it was pretty obvious which 2 stuck together, we all agreed on a solution same as RocAFella1 stated above (treat known 4th card as an exposed burn).

Seems the most logical solution to me if the would-be burn card can be identified. Otherwise I'd have likely suggested the RROP route.

However, now that I know the TDA rule, I'd likely use that if the burn card is unknown. (Dealer scrambles 'em face down, have someone that folded preflop pick one)

Even so, still prefer the simpler "exposed burn card" rule if it can be identified. "House Rules" prerogative.
 
Would declare the 4th card an exposed card and burn it before flipping the Turn card as someone else mentioned above.
 
In a somewhat sort of similar situation

What happens if the dealer misheard the player say check

He said raise

Started to seal the flop but only the top card was exposed while the player is counting out a raise and a couple people saw the top card of the three only when flipped.

It turned into such a mess it’s obvious to me the house has no clue what it’s doing and the dealer just went off half cocked like THIS is the answer And just shuffled up the whole stub with the three flop cards

I’m not sure in that spot if only one card was exposed you reshuffle.

I’d have made the exposed card the turn burn and used the two other cards plus the next card in the stub the flop

Checking TDR I wasn’t really sure the exposed flop wasn’t exclusive to one exposed card
 
It happen more often than not, especially if you have regular late night poker while watching sport.

If we know which is the 4th card, we treat that as exposed card and burn card for turn.

If we not sure which is the 4th card, we random draw 1 as the burn card.
 
If the fourth dealt card is used as the burn card for the turn, that ignores the purpose of the burn card. The reason you burn a card before dealing the next street is to ensure that during the betting round no one can see what the next card dealt will be, just in case that card is marked. If you accidentally deal four cards to the flop and then use the fourth card as the burn card for the turn, then the turn card is sitting there on top of the deck during the entire flop betting round.

I'm surprised the TDA rules don't call for a fresh burn card, while treating the fourth card as an extra dead/burnt/mucked card.
 

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