Tourney 3-way chop, bad deal for 2nd and 3rd? (2 Viewers)

bentax1978

4 of a Kind
Supporter
Joined
Jul 10, 2015
Messages
7,335
Reaction score
11,288
Rewards
289
Location
Niskayuna, NY
This chop question doesn't involve me since I was knocked out of the tournament in 74th (of 733).

This morning I was reading the casino's poker blog to see who won the tournament. Turns out the players agreed on a three-way chop, and based on the fact that it was level 30, it was likely sometime around 2am after playing since noon.

What I found odd is the deal they agreed to. The blog said the chip leader had a little over 13M chips, so let's call it 13.2M. There were 20.9M chips in play, so between the second and third place guys they had 7.7M. I don't know the specific breakdown as it wasn't given, but let's assume 4.0M and 3.7M just to have numbers to play with. FWIW, blinds at this point were 75k/150k.

Player 1 - 13.2 million
Player 2 - 4.0 million
Player 3 - 3.7 million

The payouts for 1st/2nd/3rd were as follows:
1st - $37,559
2nd - $23,749
3rd - $15,451

The payouts the players agreed (via chop) were as follows:
1st - $36,559 (-$1000)
2nd - $20,600 (-$3149)
3rd - $19,600 (+$4149)

My initial reaction to this arrangement is that the guy in first place got a great deal, giving up only $1000 (<3%) of first place. Granted he had a solid lead over both other players, but if either of the two other double the other one up, then you're in a situation where the chip leader has less than a 2:1 chip lead and victory would be far from certain.

So am I wrong in thinking that this chop was very favorable to the chip lead?
 
This chop question doesn't involve me since I was knocked out of the tournament in 74th (of 733).

This morning I was reading the casino's poker blog to see who won the tournament. Turns out the players agreed on a three-way chop, and based on the fact that it was level 30, it was likely sometime around 2am after playing since noon.

What I found odd is the deal they agreed to. The blog said the chip leader had a little over 13M chips, so let's call it 13.2M. There were 20.9M chips in play, so between the second and third place guys they had 7.7M. I don't know the specific breakdown as it wasn't given, but let's assume 4.0M and 3.7M just to have numbers to play with. FWIW, blinds at this point were 75k/150k.

Player 1 - 13.2 million
Player 2 - 4.0 million
Player 3 - 3.7 million

The payouts for 1st/2nd/3rd were as follows:
1st - $37,559
2nd - $23,749
3rd - $15,451

The payouts the players agreed (via chop) were as follows:
1st - $36,559 (-$1000)
2nd - $20,600 (-$3149)
3rd - $19,600 (+$4149)

My initial reaction to this arrangement is that the guy in first place got a great deal, giving up only $1000 (<3%) of first place. Granted he had a solid lead over both other players, but if either of the two other double the other one up, then you're in a situation where the chip leader has less than a 2:1 chip lead and victory would be far from certain.

So am I wrong in thinking that this chop was very favorable to the chip lead?

You are NOT wrong... Chip leader got a HECK of a deal.
 
They were playing for $30,306 (each was already guaranteed $15,451). Without a calculator handy (regular or equity), the chip leader gets roughly 65% of that and 17.5% each for the other two, added to the base amount (based on 13M, 3.5M, 3.5M chip counts).

So about $35,000 for 1st and $20,000 each for 2nd/3rd. Actual amounts likely a little smaller.

It looks somewhat reasonable if they ballparked it in a similar fashion.

EDIT: fixed my numbers above


I'll run the numbers when i get home.
 
Last edited:
I have been in this situation for far less money and have seen crazy things happen. Many times players will agree to weird chops just to end the tourney because they are tired and want to go home. What it looks like to me is 2nd and 3rd agreed to a roughly even chop with 1000 from 1st going to 2nd and 3rd and the 3rd place giving up 1k to 2nd to get him to chop. No ICM considerations were made from what I can tell, just an old fashioned you got 1st, we split the rest minus a small amount for having more chips.
 
Quick Calculation with a spreadsheet and not taking blinds into consideration and removing guaranteed money

1st - $34654.79
2nd - $21270.33
3rd - $20833.88
 
^ that looks more like what I'd expect.
 
My guess as to what happened:

3rd- let's give him first and chop the rest

2nd- I'm okay with giving him first but I have more chips than you so I should get more money

3rd- you technically have more chips but realistically we are even. I'm not giving you any of my prize money

2nd- whatever dude, I'm not taking the same amount when I have more chips

1st- no need to bicker, I'll give 2nd $1000 of mine

2nd/3rd- DEAL!

1st (to himself)- wow, that was easy :D
 
My guess as to what happened:

3rd- let's give him first and chop the rest

2nd- I'm okay with giving him first but I have more chips than you so I should get more money

3rd- you technically have more chips but realistically we are even. I'm not giving you any of my prize money

2nd- whatever dude, I'm not taking the same amount when I have more chips

1st- no need to bicker, I'll give 2nd $1000 of mine

2nd/3rd- DEAL!

1st (to himself)- wow, that was easy :D

I have no doubt that's pretty close to what happened.
 
AFAIK this is plug and play: http://www.icmpoker.com/icmcalculator/ Obviously it's not exact since it doesn't take into account blinds.

Quick Calculation with a spreadsheet and not taking blinds into consideration and removing guaranteed money

1st - $34654.79
2nd - $21270.33
3rd - $20833.88

I got Cody's answer on the ICM and David's via Excel. Maybe I just don't understand it, but the ICM calculation makes no sense to me

CHop.png
 
My equity calculator generated the same numbers as the ICM. Best guess is that the spreadsheet calculations aren't considering payouts when the big stack finishes 2nd or 3rd.

Regardless, the big stack got quite the bonus payoff in the chop agreement.
 
Regardless, the big stack got quite the bonus payoff in the chop agreement.

That was basically my feeling when I read about it the next morning.

Of course when I saw who won, and that he had 10 WSOP cashes this past summer in Vegas, it made a little more sense that he was able to negotiate himself a very favorable chop in that situation.
 
I was hoping this thread was a humble brag of "did i chop this right? "

Oh well. Next time !!
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Back
Top Bottom