Looking for some assistance....... (2 Viewers)

Racer96

Racer96

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Many years ago, I had my wife do a Yoshi logo for me.
yoshitotembdealer.jpg


It was my intent to have her do Yoshi (the character from Super Mario Bros.) done in a west coast native art style. I used it on a set of custom ASM (now CPC) chips.I still really love the logo, as I love that style of art, however I have recently had a bit of mixed feelings towards it. I am not a west coast native person, nor is my wife west coast native. While it was never done with any intention of offending someone, I do think now that some people could possibly take offense to it. As such, I've been currently considering trying to come up with a new logo.

So, why Yoshi? Well, my last name starts with "Yoshi" , and was often a nickname when I was younger, and again when I started working in a casino. My new current thoughts on coming up with a logo, is to again run with the Yoshi character as inspiration, but this time maybe going with a more Godzilla kind of look to it. (I am Japanese Canadian, so that also works with it.) Maybe something along the lines of the first 2 images (The top left corner , from left to right) but "Yoshi-ized"?
godzilla.jpg


If anyone has any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions, please chime in. If I am able to use it in any way, I will do my best to make sure that people get compensated, either in money, or samples of anything that I get made up using the end logo.

Thanks for looking!
Mike
 
Oh, and by the way, I didn't choose any specific person to work with on this ( I know there are many very talented designers here on PCF ) , not because I didn't want to pay for design work, but because I wanted to get as much feedback as possible, as I'm still not very sure which way I want to go with on this. I have worked with some designers before, but it was always when I had a much more clear vision of what I wanted to do with it, and just wanted it refined and made right for published work. Here I'm looking for more crowd sourcing, to try and come up with something that will work well.

Mike
 
Hmm maybe have Yoshi written in Kanji/kana on the label or do the same for the denoms?

Is this for cash or tourney? I've considered stfu chips and bounty chips that say urusaii and matane respectively
 
To be honest, not sure yet if for cash, tourney, buttons, or maybe even other things.

And I'd be in for a bunch of your chips, lol!

Mike
 
BGinGA said:
Personally, I really like the original artwork much better than a Godzilla rendering. My 2c, and I'm not offended...
Click to expand...
I like the originals a lot, and will still hold onto my customs as a Legacy set, to be passed on to my kids. However, I do have some native friends, and I know that they have been offended at some cosplay depictions of superheroes done in a native art style. While I didn't find it offensive, after listening to them, I could understand why THEY thought it was offensive. I am certain that the people that created the cosplays were not trying to offend others as well. That said, if I (with the help of others!) can come up with a new design, that would have less chance of offending someone, then why not.

Plus, shiny new toys. That's always good too.

Mike
 
Racer96 said:
To be honest, not sure yet if for cash, tourney, buttons, or maybe even other things.

And I'd be in for a bunch of your chips, lol!

Mike
Click to expand...

I have a rack of red Matsui clay chips on the M(?) mold. Trying to find a use for them is what gave me the idea :)
That and my love/fascination with Japanese culture. Was lucky enough to see a few of my Japanese friends recently after a few years!

Still need to make it over there but I'll need to brush up on my nihon go first. It was never great and now I'm super rusty haha
 
RichMahogany said:
I have a rack of red Matsui clay chips on the M(?) mold. Trying to find a use for them is what gave me the idea :)
That and my love/fascination with Japanese culture. Was lucky enough to see a few of my Japanese friends recently after a few years!

Still need to make it over there but I'll need to brush up on my nihon go first. It was never great and now I'm super rusty haha
Click to expand...
Heh, it's funny. I'm of japanese descent, but my parents were born in Canada, and 2 of my grandparents were born in Canada. So, honestly, I'm really just Canadian. I grew up in a small town, outside of Vancouver, and while there were a few asian families around, I was typically the only one in my class or around 30 or so kids. I honestly grew up very whitewashed. I didn't even like sushi and rice (That changed when I got older, lol!) That said , I did grow up with many asian influences, especially when it comes to respect and values.
Sadly though, I did not learn much japanese language at all. I tried after school courses for a while, but I enrolled in french immersion, and found it too difficult to carry on with both. So I stuck with the french. For many many years after school finished, I wished I had dropped the french and went into japanese, as it would have been more useful. Fastforward to 2019, and I found out that we (my family) would end up moving to France (where we are now!) , and the french has been a bit of a life saver, to be honest.

Although I still wish I had learned more japanese.

Mike
 
@Racer96 as white washed(albeit mixed) latino, I completely understand my friend!

Never too late to learn more Japanese. As with any new language though, its difficult to remember if you're not immersed/using it daily.

Anyhow, I've derailed your thread enough I think :)

I'd stick with the Yoshi theme
 
Last edited:
Hey Mike,

I really don't think the artistic rendering of Yoshi in First Nation styling is offensive. Sure people can take offense to anything these days but it isn't mocking or anything like that. We live on the west coast so to some degree we also have shared ownership in that culture anyway. Just look at our city names.

I have many good memories of playing the different Mario games growing up. If you want to stick with the original theme of Yoshi perhaps stylize it in a Japanese way to go with your roots. I also thought of making a mario themed poker set with Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser etc.

My vote would be a Yoshi themed set but stylized more in accordance with the video games.
 
Racer96 said:
Heh, it's funny. I'm of japanese descent, but my parents were born in Canada, and 2 of my grandparents were born in Canada. So, honestly, I'm really just Canadian. I grew up in a small town, outside of Vancouver, and while there were a few asian families around, I was typically the only one in my class or around 30 or so kids. I honestly grew up very whitewashed. I didn't even like sushi and rice (That changed when I got older, lol!) That said , I did grow up with many asian influences, especially when it comes to respect and values.
Sadly though, I did not learn much japanese language at all. I tried after school courses for a while, but I enrolled in french immersion, and found it too difficult to carry on with both. So I stuck with the french. For many many years after school finished, I wished I had dropped the french and went into japanese, as it would have been more useful. Fastforward to 2019, and I found out that we (my family) would end up moving to France (where we are now!) , and the french has been a bit of a life saver, to be honest.

Although I still wish I had learned more japanese.

Mike
Click to expand...

This is funny because I am the other way around. I have white person genes but grew up in Asia. I grew up eating sushi for Christmas dinner and stuff like that. Even to this day I will choose rice 10/10 times over potatoes. I love rice. Also the serving sizes are different. Most white people when eating rice just take a small portion but the Asian way I am accustomed to is loading up on rice and then putting some stuff on top.

When I moved to Canada as a teenager I couldn't believe how crappy the rice is here (a la Uncle Bens and stuff like that). Thankfully, over time the grocery stores now carry Basmati and other good stuff.
 
Lemonzest said:
Hey Mike,

I really don't think the artistic rendering of Yoshi in First Nation styling is offensive. Sure people can take offense to anything these days but it isn't mocking or anything like that. We live on the west coast so to some degree we also have shared ownership in that culture anyway. Just look at our city names.

I have many good memories of playing the different Mario games growing up. If you want to stick with the original theme of Yoshi perhaps stylize it in a Japanese way to go with your roots. I also thought of making a mario themed poker set with Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser etc.

My vote would be a Yoshi themed set but stylized more in accordance with the video games.
Click to expand...
Jerkwagon (not sure if he is on this site, he was on CT before though) is another BC local member, and had a custom mario themed ceramic set made up. It looked pretty cool, and he gave me a bunch of spares.

Godzilla actually would pay a bit of homage to my japanese roots, and I kind of like the idea of blending the two themes together.
In the Godzilla clip art that I posted, the first image I could see the first three spikes being colourized red, and changing the next section of spikes into the red/white shell (with the body being colourized green). Then underneath it could say Yoshi, instead of the skyline.

On the second image of that clip art, I could see the same effect being done (colourized, first 3 spikes turned red, next section turned into the shell), and having the word Yoshi inside of the curved tail.

That's just initial thoughts , at least.

And again, I'm not thinking of eliminating my current set, in fact, I have been thinking of getting new oversized dealer buttons made up with the name. I'm just thinking of doing something new.

Mike
 
Racer96 said:
Jerkwagon (not sure if he is on this site, he was on CT before though) is another BC local member, and had a custom mario themed ceramic set made up. It looked pretty cool, and he gave me a bunch of spares.

Godzilla actually would pay a bit of homage to my japanese roots, and I kind of like the idea of blending the two themes together.
In the Godzilla clip art that I posted, the first image I could see the first three spikes being colourized red, and changing the next section of spikes into the red/white shell (with the body being colourized green). Then underneath it could say Yoshi, instead of the skyline.

On the second image of that clip art, I could see the same effect being done (colourized, first 3 spikes turned red, next section turned into the shell), and having the word Yoshi inside of the curved tail.

That's just initial thoughts , at least.

And again, I'm not thinking of eliminating my current set, in fact, I have been thinking of getting new oversized dealer buttons made up with the name. I'm just thinking of doing something new.

Mike
Click to expand...

Yeah Godzilla theme is cool too and it makes that connection to Japan.
 
If anyone has people they've worked with on designs, please feel free to tag them into this thread, the more eyes I get on this, the better it can potentially be, at least that's what I hope.

Mike
 
surfik said:
Original artwork is great. You are overreacting...
Click to expand...
I agree artwork is great, but I am not sure he is overreacting. Cultural appropriation when it comes to first nations in this region is tricky. It could lead to an uncomfortable situation depending on the opinion of the players in the game.

The fact that you aren't profiting from the use makes me think it should be a non-issue, but again, it is a non-zero chance someone gets offended.
 
I agree with @grantc54 and @Racer96 on this. Twenty years ago, nobody would have thought twice about this, and in many parts of the world they still don't (hello professional and other sports teams). But on the west coast of Canada, and in many other areas, the issue of non First Nations (Indians/aboriginals/natives) people using (co-opting) FN art or "paying homage" to FN culture by naming sports teams after them is a pretty raw topic for some (and if you truly understand the history of FN peoples here, you might appreciate why).
 
Native culture is huge here in southeast Alaska. Tlingit clans mostly. Like you I love the art and black/red colors used in traditional art.
When I started my guiding outfit I really wanted my logo to be a tlingit design of a salmon done in black/red. I was told by several designers (both native and not) that they could not create a native logo to rep my Llc because I was not native. Apparently it's bad form to profit using traditional native art when I am not native. This had never crossed my mind but decided to respect this unwritten rule.
Your chip design doesn't bother me, but I'm not native. I think you maybe on thin ice with any native players who might play at your table? Native art used to depict a cartoon character might not sit well with some.
Personally I dont think it's in bad taste. Nor do I think your intentions were bad. But again. I'm not native.
 
grantc54 said:
I agree artwork is great, but I am not sure he is overreacting. Cultural appropriation when it comes to first nations in this region is tricky. It could lead to an uncomfortable situation depending on the opinion of the players in the game.
Click to expand...

Maybe I am out dated in my cultural views but I don't really buy the cultural appropriation argument. We also had Japanese internment camps in WW2 so does that mean we are not allowed to use Japanese imagery etc?

I think the vast majority of First Nation people would appreciate the nod to their culture vs. choosing to be offended by it. IMO integration is much more respectful then just straight up ignoring something exists.

Things like this are not disparaging of the culture in question but elevating them and acknowledging them even if just for having a good aesthetic.
 
Racer96 said:
....However, I do have some native friends, and I know that they have been offended at some cosplay depictions of superheroes done in a native art style. While I didn't find it offensive, after listening to them, I could understand why THEY thought it was offensive.
Click to expand...

I would really be interested in hearing the details of their reasoning...
 
Lemonzest said:
I think the vast majority of First Nation people would appreciate the nod to their culture vs. choosing to be offended by it. IMO integration is much more respectful then just straight up ignoring something exists.

Things like this are not disparaging of the culture in question but elevating them and acknowledging them even if just for having a good aesthetic.
Click to expand...
I haven't had a whole lot of contact and interaction with that many FN people, but I've had some, and from what little I've had, I suspect that not many FN people would agree with your assessment. In my experience they tend to be very proud of their culture, and their art and culture is very personal, and in some cases sacred to them. Use of their images and artwork (or imitations thereof) by non FN people isn't seen by them as elevating or acknowledging them (nor is the use of cartoon images of them for sports mascots), but as disrespectful and possibly even as another example of theft of their identity and culture.
 
LotsOfChips said:
I haven't had a whole lot of contact and interaction with that many FN people, but I've had some, and from what little I've had, I suspect that not many FN people would agree with your assessment. In my experience they tend to be very proud of their culture, and their art and culture is very personal, and in some cases sacred to them. Use of their images and artwork (or imitations thereof) by non FN people isn't seen by them as elevating or acknowledging them (nor is the use of cartoon images of them for sports mascots), but as disrespectful and possibly even as another example of theft of their identity and culture.
Click to expand...

Intention matters. Someone using and enjoying First Nation stylized art in their home because they like it is way different than a company profiting from the same art/imagery (eg. sports franchises).

I hope we have not arrived to the point where only Native people can own and enjoy First Nation art in their homes...

Broadly speaking I am in favor of everyone enjoying all cultures rather than everyone being scared and having to stay in their own lane culturally.

That is the problem with the narrative pushed in the media regarding "cultural appropriation". It is actually counter productive to people getting along and appreciating other cultures.

Just my 2c.
 

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