Glad you were able to get it resolved
PCF chip deal gone a little wrong (Now resolved) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Beakertwang
- Start date
ACE'S FULL
Pair
Thanks for the support Wedge Rock!
Also for some of you to expect the worst in people before the whole story is known is quite scary.
Also for some of you to expect the worst in people before the whole story is known is quite scary.
Exactly as I suspected. Some are pretty quick around here to grab the pitchforks, especially when hearing only one side of a story. I tend to give people the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise.
That's great, but the seller should have had better communication !!!!
What he did by calling him out was fine. You also defended the member that scammed me. When someone has far more than ample time to make their rebuttal but nothing is spoken, I appreciate the members calling them out. I only wish I would have done so sooner in my situation as it might have helped others in not having to go through similar troubles.
I am in 100% agreement with members like @kk405 and @ChaosRock, who are both as stand up as it gets. The members here deserve to know when shady practices are happening.
JerseyGigolo
Pair
I don't think that's true.
Fortunately, I've never had to use PayPal's buyer protection, but I almost always pay through Goods & Services. Especially if I've never dealt with the person before and especially especially if it's a lot of money.
Am I being wildly naive?
OP
OP
I've done close to a hundred deals for guitars, amps, pedals, etc over the last few years. I would never use do a deal with a complete stranger using F&F. In fact, The Gear Page disallows requesting even requesting it in the classifieds. It seems to be the norm here. Unless it's someone who has a solid reputation on here, it's probably best to pay the extra 3%. Obviously, it won't come into play in this instance, but it's probably good practice.
Communication is very important.
I agree 100%..... but bad communication is a far cry from "I was scammed" or "I was ripped off".
I didn't defend anybody, simply pointing out other possibilities that were overlooked by the over-anxious lynch mob who had heard only one side of the story.
And you weren't scammed. At best, he reneged on an offer to sell you chips -- not very honorable imo, but also a far cry from "I was scammed" or "I was ripped off".
That's because of PayPal rules regarding business accounts. Taking F/F payments for actual business purchases violates the TOS.
What do you call it when you reach an agreement, jump through all the hoops the seller demands, the seller then lists the same chips in an auction, refuses to communicate until I threaten to out him for what he’s done, he then insinuates he’s going to make the situation “right,” and then falls off the radar/tricks me not into saying anything else until the other listings end, and then NEVER communicates again??? I know the individual is a friend of the elites on here and was included in the group buys, but how in Sam hades can you even begin to try to justify that behavior...fellow group buyer or not?!?! He outright lied and deceived throughout our ordeal. Don’t call that scamming? Fine. What should it be called?
You continually interpret my failure to openly accuse or condemn without all of the facts as defending or justifying behavior. It is not.
Your side of the story.
Glad things got resolved and it was just a miscommunication issue.
Reading through all the comments, I couldn't really see who had the "pitchforks" in hand, honestly. Even the OP framed his post as "what to do" as opposed to an attack. Some, including myself, even mentioned more time was probably necessary before taking any measures. Loads of questions about the transaction were asked in an effort to try and help the buyer.
Nothing would have happened at all if the seller had: 1-Kept the the buyer informed on the shipping of those items and 2-Had responded the many attempts of buyer to get clarification on what was happening. It takes literally 10 seconds to get a hold of a phone and reply to a PM. So no, it is not the buyer's fault or of some people who tried to help the buyer. Yes, as some have said, communication is key and can avoid 99% of issues with a transaction.
Regarding any public complain, it is also on the "hurt" part to have the common sense to elevate the issue at a proper time (to himself, not to you, not to me and not to anyone else). If he fails to do so, then the community would be looking at him. It is as simple as that. We are not the ones hurting, the person who feels the pain "should" know better than we do. It is very easy to say wait for 6 months before any action because the seller might be on a 6 months spiritual vacation in India when it's not you who had $5K in limbo and no chips.
As far as reneging goes, I maintain it is a form of scam to me. I understand this is not how the site views it, and it's fine. Not everything in the world is how I think it should be, not even close...
And regarding "your side of the story", the forum is always open for both sides of the story. If only one party decides to tell his side of the events, it is certainly not his fault that there's only on version of the facts.
Reading through all the comments, I couldn't really see who had the "pitchforks" in hand, honestly. Even the OP framed his post as "what to do" as opposed to an attack. Some, including myself, even mentioned more time was probably necessary before taking any measures. Loads of questions about the transaction were asked in an effort to try and help the buyer.
Nothing would have happened at all if the seller had: 1-Kept the the buyer informed on the shipping of those items and 2-Had responded the many attempts of buyer to get clarification on what was happening. It takes literally 10 seconds to get a hold of a phone and reply to a PM. So no, it is not the buyer's fault or of some people who tried to help the buyer. Yes, as some have said, communication is key and can avoid 99% of issues with a transaction.
Regarding any public complain, it is also on the "hurt" part to have the common sense to elevate the issue at a proper time (to himself, not to you, not to me and not to anyone else). If he fails to do so, then the community would be looking at him. It is as simple as that. We are not the ones hurting, the person who feels the pain "should" know better than we do. It is very easy to say wait for 6 months before any action because the seller might be on a 6 months spiritual vacation in India when it's not you who had $5K in limbo and no chips.
As far as reneging goes, I maintain it is a form of scam to me. I understand this is not how the site views it, and it's fine. Not everything in the world is how I think it should be, not even close...
And regarding "your side of the story", the forum is always open for both sides of the story. If only one party decides to tell his side of the events, it is certainly not his fault that there's only on version of the facts.
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It’s an interesting question. He’s wrong for sure. You guys had a contract and he breached the contract. If you took him to court, you’d win. But what would you win? It’s tough to quantify any damages, but you were expecting some difficult to acquire chips - surely that’s worth something.
So to answer your question, I don’t know what to call it. But if everything you’ve said is true, then his word is shit and I wouldn’t want to deal with the guy.
Yeah I think in general people just need to chill. This whole thread was not necessary and could have been worked out by being patient and communicating.
Taking 1 or 2 weeks to reply doesnt always mean the worst. People can be busy with life.
I had a seller recently beg me to buy a group of chips that he had for sale. I was on the fence about wanting them, but ultimately I made the numbers work and sent payment. With outing two hours I received a note indicating that he had sold half of them to another person on the board. He then offered me a half refund and half the chips. I ended up with a full return and no chips, which in all honesty made me happier. I am still shocked that someone would sell out from under me on a deal. However, I was made whole, moved on, and realized that I was probably better off without
P.S. that person is in no way tied to this thread, but fits the description of those who reneg on a deal after agreeing to it.
P.S. that person is in no way tied to this thread, but fits the description of those who reneg on a deal after agreeing to it.
I had a very similar situation happen to me, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same person. I had an agreement to buy quite around a hundred or so singles that were in various quantities. Deal was totally done, I had sent the money, and then later he sends me a PM saying he "forgot" he had sold half of the chips to someone else. He did return my money at least, but just another one of the issues that seems to be popping up more frequently on here.
He had weeks and weeks and weeks to tell his side of the story while that situation was going on. He chose to "plead the fifth." I'm guessing there's a reason for that, don't you??
I agree that more time Could have been taken before posting here... but I also don’t think the OP was wrong to be concerned.
Put yourselves in the OPs situation. You receive a shipment of half of the agreed upon goods. There is no communication from the seller that part of the order will be shipped differently, so when only part of the order arrives, it’s easy to assume that something was left out or missing.
When you make effort over several days to contact the seller to express concern, and can see they’re logging in to see your messages, but they don’t reply? Given it would have taken literally 20 seconds to reply that the cases were shipped separately, I think the OP has cause to be concerned when such a message was not conveyed to them.
If I’m selling something, and the buyer contacts me with some concerns, why would I make them wait days (or weeks) for me to respond, if it can be cleared up with a short message? If I’m not near my PCF account for weeks, that’s one thing, but if the buyer clearly sees I’m reading my PCF PMs, then to make them wait seems inappropriate to me.
Glad it all worked out well, and that it was just a miscommunication. Lesson learned, communicate better movin forward.
OP
OP
While I admit I could have been more patient, this was exactly my issue.
I had received a FedEx tracking number from the seller via PM, but no other tracking info, and no mention of a second package or USPS. Without clear communication, it seemed like the deal had changed.
RowdyRawhide
Full House
BULLSHIT!!. I'll give you 1 or 2 days but once I send my money to you i expect full lines of communication and my chips on a timely manner....unless other wise COMMUNICATED.***
In full disclosure I sold multiple lots of chips several years ago and somehow forgot to send one lot to a buyer (totally overlooked 1 package I the corner of my store roo. In the basement) however when the buyer contacted me via PM after 10 or so days, I told them what happened and they went out the next day. We communicated and they assured me there were no hard feelings, it was an honest mistake, but I was honest with them about my mistake.
IMO Some of the members in this community have seemed to have become very greedy and think just because they paid XXXX amount of money for chips that they will be worth that or more going forward. Hence the high pressure sales pitches via PM, yeah it has happened to me too and haven't even been that active buying chips lately. I think we are about to see a correction in the market since raffles are now gone. Chips will now be sold at market values or they will sit on the shelves until those people need [some] their money back.
ETA
*** what is also bullshit is when I post that I'll take some chips in your FS ad, then you PM me within 5 minutes with your PP info, I PP you within the next 5 minutes and let you know via PM, and then you go radio silent in PMs for the next several days....EVEN THOUGH I CAN SEE YOUR ACTIVELY LOOKING AT OTHER THREADS AND ENGAGED IN CONVERSATION! Just fucking communicate....its so simple it's stupid. I have to drive 30 minutes to nearest PO. I understand not everyone can get by the PO every day to drop off packages....just let me know it's gonna be several days before you can ship S-I-M-P-L-E!!!
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Dunno, because I don't guess. He could be dead, in the hospital, dealing with real-life issues that make chip drama seem pretty insignificant, or just decided to say 'fuck you' for a variety of reasons. I don't know.... and neither do you. How one chooses to deal with the unknown is a personal decision. I'm good with my choices.
Hey Rowdy, do you mind elaborating a little more on the above? I’m not sure I understand it. Random people are just cold calling you offering you chips?
You can chose to be naive. That's your choice, and I'm fine with it. The same person in my situation (your friend and fellow group buyer) had plenty of time to post sales on here, ship chips, and continue to host poker games (those who felt bad for what he did to me informed me of such), but he couldn't at least have the decency to communicate with me?? Yeah, keep going to bat for him and continue with the absurd rationalizations.
I think 9 of 10 transactions are smooth as buttah, great communication, quick shipment with tracking - hunky dory.
Once in a while a hiccup occurs whether its a mistake with shipping or miscommunication or poor communication. In those exceptional circumstances people need to chill a little bit Honestly this thread was made over a couple used poker chip cases...its not a high value item at stake.
Everyone benefits from an environment where you get the benefit of the doubt. Life happens and not every transaction will be perfect. What if I get sick or a loved one is sick for a period of time...
It would be nice to come back and easily tie up loose ends and not have to deal with an angry mob.
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As several others have already pointed out, if you have time to log on here multiple times, why in the world can you not have the decency to take 30 seconds to at least give a heads up to the purchaser? Is that not just common courtesy??
Care to explain why this even matters, since you bring it up at every opportunity? I've never met him, or you.
And please get it through your obviously dense head that I'm not going to bat for ~anybody~. Not him, and not you. Sorry if it pisses you off that not everybody jumped on your bandwagon when you got butt-hurt. I'm pretty sure that there's more to the story than what you're telling.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
I see it like this... the seller could need that $200. I DGAF if you just had a car accident or suddenly have an impending medical bill. If you delay payment, you are assuming that the person that you owe the $200 didn't also have an accident or owes medical bills - both cases have been listed as reasons people have offered sets up for sale in the first place.
I'm not unsympathetic. If you need more time, I will likely extend it to you. But don't for one minute assume that the extension will be granted. Nobody is selling sets because they are bored with the chips. They are selling them because they need the money (even if it's for more chips). When you make a deal to buy, you should accept that to be the case, and only agree to pay what you can afford.
I'm not unsympathetic. If you need more time, I will likely extend it to you. But don't for one minute assume that the extension will be granted. Nobody is selling sets because they are bored with the chips. They are selling them because they need the money (even if it's for more chips). When you make a deal to buy, you should accept that to be the case, and only agree to pay what you can afford.
Agreed. But even if people dont communicate the way we think they should reaching for the pitchfork rarely helps.
If its an expensive transaction like 1-2k then expectations should be higher. For something like a couple used poker cases....hardly worth the brew-haha.
OP
OP
Shouldn’t expectations be to follow through on agreements, and communicate in a reasonable manner, no matter the value of the order? If you drop $2k on a set of chips, and you’re short a barrel of $100’s, I bet you’d appreciate knowing that they’re coming in a second box. And if there’s no response after a few days, would you be agitated? It’s only 5% of your order, so not worth the brew-haha, right?
Same goes for sending someone $20 for a sample set that never arrives.
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