PCF chip deal gone a little wrong (Now resolved) (3 Viewers)

[Beakertwang]

I'm not sure how to go about this. This is my first PCF purchase, and it's not like I got totally ripped off, but the seller didn't come through on his end of the deal.

I've given him negative feedback already. I'm hoping just to get some communication, since he seems to be ignoring me. I won't call him out publicly at this moment (not that it would be that hard to figure it out), but I'm looking for input from more experienced PCF'ers.

I bought some chips recently. In the negotiations, he told me he would include a couple cheap cases, a 500-chip and a 300-chip. It sounded good to me, so I paid him, but chips arrived with 6 mismatched racks--a couple of them cracked--and no cases.

I've sent him three PM's since they arrived Tuesday, and I've seen that he logged in shortly after each message. I can only assume he didn't want to spend the extra shipping, but he should have gotten back to me and involved me in the decision. And it's not like it's a huge deal, but I could have gotten the same chips and a case new for about $50 more, and the cases offered figured into my decision.

How should I proceed? Just leave it and chalk it up to experience? Call him out and hope for some communication?

 

[navels]

Pretty easy to figure out who this was, looks like his first PCF transaction (he has no other feedback than yours). I'd chalk it up to dealing with a first-timer and move on. The negative feedback stands, is pretty clear imo. Others may disagree.

 

[Lemonzest]

Starting a thread and getting a hundred different people chiming in won't solve anything. You need to deal directly with the seller to get this resolved. If it can't be resolved then get admins involved. Threads generally just make drama and don't actually resolve anything.

The value of a couple used poker chip cases is negligible. Leave him a negative feedback and leave it at that. If you can get him to refund a reasonable amount then great.

 

[Poker Zombie]

A deal is a deal. If he discovered the cases would be cost prohibitive, he should have communicated that before shipping the chips to give you a chance to renegotiate. One person should not just adjust the terms of a deal.

 

[Beakertwang]

Thanks for the input. If he communicated with me, there would have been no issue.

I wouldn't mind if the thread were deleted, if that's better.
@Tommy ?

 

[Beakertwang]

A deal is a deal. If he discovered the cases would be cost prohibitive, he should have communicated that before shipping the chips to give you a chance to renegotiate. One person should not just adjust the terms of a deal.

That's my only real beef with him. It's not like I strong-armed him into throwing in the cases.

 

[WedgeRock]

I won't call him out publicly at this moment

Unfortunately, you already have.

I've given him negative feedback already.

I'd chalk it up to dealing with a first-timer and move on.

He's not a newcomer...he's been around. And he's a good guy, IMO.

 

[Beakertwang]

He's not a newcomer...he's been around. And he's a good guy, IMO.

Sure seems like it. Can’t figure out why he won’t respond to me at all.

 

[ChaosRock]

Sorry you had a bad deal @Beakertwang ... I've been around for several years and never had a bad deal around here... It seems things are changing a bit, huh...

So now people can't even say who they got screw by?!?!?!? C'mon, guys... That's the only recourse we have here!

Maybe he is a good guy, maybe he isn't, what I know is that I wouldn't change the terms of the deal without any reasonable explanation, personaly. And if someone would change them on me, I wouldn't like one bit... So it's okay to forget about the cases? What about instead of shipping 4 racks one ships only three racks? Is that within the acceptability range?

How long since you first mentioned your disappointment with the fact he unilaterally changed the terms of the deal? I think that's a relevant fact... Has he been logging in? Has he been posting?

I am all for buyer/seller trying to resolve their issue among themselves. And to wait some time before sounding the alarm. However, if those things were exhausted, people should know who NOT to deal with. 100%!

 

[WedgeRock]

I don't think it's that the Villain (he's not a villain, but indulge my use of the word, please) can't be called out, I think @Beakertwang is just exercising an abundance of caution given the other premature outing here...

 

[ChaosRock]

I don't think it's that the Villain (he's not a villain, but indulge my use of the word, please) can't be called out, I think @Beakertwang is just exercising an abundance of caution given the other premature outing here...

I cannot agree or disagree with your statement without knowing more details. What I know is that from the buyers perspective, the deal was changed. He tried to contact seller and seller is ignoring him. What does he have to do?

 

[Beakertwang]

Sorry you had a bad deal @Beakertwang ... I've been around for several years and never had a bad deal around here... It seems things are changing a bit, huh...

So now people can't even say who they got screw by?!?!?!? C'mon, guys... That's the only recourse we have here!

Maybe he is a good guy, maybe he isn't, what I know is that I wouldn't change the terms of the deal without any reasonable explanation, personaly. And if someone would change them on me, I wouldn't like one bit... So it's okay to forget about the cases? What about instead of shipping 4 racks one ships only three racks? Is that within the acceptability range?

How long since you first mentioned your disappointment with the fact he unilaterally changed the terms of the deal? I think that's a relevant fact... Has he been logging in? Has he been posting?

I am all for buyer/seller trying to resolve their issue among themselves. And to wait some time before sounding the alarm. However, if those things were exhausted, people should know who NOT to deal with. 100%!

I sent him a message almost immediately after receiving them on Tuesday. Then two messages yesterday. Then two today. I’ve checked his account several times, and it would say, as it’s says currently, “engaged in conversation 24 minutes ago”, or similar. I can’t only assume that means he’s reading my PM’s.

 

[ChaosRock]

I sent him a message almost immediately after receiving them on Tuesday. Then two messages yesterday. Then two today. I’ve checked his account several times, and it would say, as it’s says currently, “engaged in conversation 24 minutes ago”, or similar. I can’t only assume that means he’s reading my PM’s.

Yeah, it seems he's been around. Personally, and I'm not on your skin, I would have given him a few more days to make it right our give you a reasonable explanation.

Hopefully the seller will show up and post his explanation here...

 

[Beakertwang]

And for the record, I’ve been polite, although I expressed my frustration with his unresponsiveness.

 

[kk405]

A deal is a deal. If he discovered the cases would be cost prohibitive, he should have communicated that before shipping the chips to give you a chance to renegotiate. One person should not just adjust the terms of a deal.

I wish that were true. A deal is not always a deal. Apparently people can reneg on negotiated deals, change terms at will, and even go behind people’s back and make other deals, knowing there is little or no consequence for breaking the original deal. We may need Judge Judy to make a weekly appearance on PCF

 

[ChaosRock]

I wish that were true. A deal is not always a deal. Apparently people can reneg on negotiated deals, change terms at will, and even go behind people’s back and make other deals, knowing there is little or no consequence for breaking the original deal.

I couldn't agree with you more, Ken!! (y) :thumbsup:

And I had a discussion about reneging on a different thread. To me, reneging is a form of scam, no doubt about it. Condoning it will only encourage more of it.

-"I wasn't really all-in when I pushed all my chips in, I really didn't mean it like that. So let's chop the pot!" LOL!!

 

[kk405]

Sorry you had a bad deal @Beakertwang ... I've been around for several years and never had a bad deal around here... It seems things are changing a bit, huh...

So now people can't even say who they got screw by?!?!?!? C'mon, guys... That's the only recourse we have here!

Maybe he is a good guy, maybe he isn't, what I know is that I wouldn't change the terms of the deal without any reasonable explanation, personaly. And if someone would change them on me, I wouldn't like one bit... So it's okay to forget about the cases? What about instead of shipping 4 racks one ships only three racks? Is that within the acceptability range?

How long since you first mentioned your disappointment with the fact he unilaterally changed the terms of the deal? I think that's a relevant fact... Has he been logging in? Has he been posting?

I am all for buyer/seller trying to resolve their issue among themselves. And to wait some time before sounding the alarm. However, if those things were exhausted, people should know who NOT to deal with. 100%!

I agree with this...a lot.

We sometimes send thousands of dollars to people we have never met, with absolutely no recourse, hoping the chips show up. If the community is changing, or some members have decided to act differently, or not act as honorably as they used to, we all need to know about them. I am not advocating premature complaints. Or attacking the reputation of members without strong evidence. But I do agree that we need to figure out a way to alert others to at least be a little more careful about a particular member, if we have come across some recent bad behavior.

With the exception of small transaction with drumhoss, fortunately I have never sent money and didn’t get my chips. But given the recent events and some be behavioral changes I am seeing, I personally will be more careful going forward.

 

[WedgeRock]

"I wasn't really all-in when I pushed all my chips in, I really didn't mean it like that. So let's chop the pot!" LOL!!

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/armenian-mike-angle-shoot-live-at-the-bike.30588/

If he's reading his PMs, he may be crazy busy in RL. That's happened to me before where I read emails, but don't have time to deal/address them right at that moment (and they never resolve on their own dammit).

I'd send a terse but polite message saying you've noticed he reads the PMs, you'd like to hear from him (ultimately to resolve the issue, but if he's busy, then just a note to say he needs some time -- with a definite follow-up date) and if he doesn't do that by xx date, you're going to make the details if the transaction (and his name) very public.

Don't be threatening. Just give him a chance to respond (or ask for more time).

 

[Poker Zombie]

I wish that were true. A deal is not always a deal. Apparently people can reneg on negotiated deals, change terms at will, and even go behind people’s back and make other deals, knowing there is little or no consequence for breaking the original deal. We may need Judge Judy to make a weekly appearance on PCF

Sadly, I understand that. This whole thing reeks of a certain someone who freely says you can change a deal whenever you don't like the terms - but If I were to call him out, I would be chided for being political.

If we reward people for bad behavior, how do we not expect others to do the same?

 

[Burke]

I'm for changing the terms of the deal...as long as it helps the other party

 

[Beakertwang]

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/armenian-mike-angle-shoot-live-at-the-bike.30588/

If he's reading his PMs, he may be crazy busy in RL. That's happened to me before where I read emails, but don't have time to deal/address them right at that moment (and they never resolve on their own dammit).

I'd send a terse but polite message saying you've noticed he reads the PMs, you'd like to hear from him (ultimately to resolve the issue, but if he's busy, then just a note to say he needs some time -- with a definite follow-up date) and if he doesn't do that by xx date, you're going to make the details if the transaction (and his name) very public.

Don't be threatening. Just give him a chance to respond (or ask for more time).

I’ve done this, except for the time period. If he has time to log in 5 times to check his messages, he has time to send me a quick response that he’s willing to discuss when he has more time.

 

[WedgeRock]

Maybe (tho I doubt) he doesn't realize you can confirm the log in.

I'd give him a hard date to go public.

I think I've dealt with him on HPT and CT. I recall him being a stand up guy (tho what you describe is not stand up).

Maybe he's out of chipping and just doesn't give a shit about his chipping reputation anymore.

 

[davin]

Maybe (tho I doubt) he doesn't realize you can confirm the log in.

I'd give him a hard date to go public.

I think I've dealt with him on HPT and CT. I recall him being a stand up guy (tho what you describe is not stand up).

Maybe he's out of chipping and just doesn't give a shit about his chipping reputation anymore.

I had a member (@Mike mac) recently scam me and claimed that the admins logged into his account and that's why it shows logged in....... I don't by that bs for one bit

 

[Burke]

How are you getting scammed by so many members?

 

[davin]

How are you getting scammed by so many members?

I'm talking about the same guy same scam

 

[AWenger]

This is my first PCF purchase, and it's not like I got totally ripped off, but the seller didn't come through on his end of the deal.

Starting a thread and getting a hundred different people chiming in won't solve anything. You need to deal directly with the seller to get this resolved. If it can't be resolved then get admins involved. Threads generally just make drama and don't actually resolve anything.

In a case like this, I would agree that the first course of action is to deal directly with the seller to get this resolved, whether is a negotiation of a partial refund or other resolution.

But if the seller is unresponsive and/or unwilling to resolve things. A thread may help. Some threads may be full of name calling and drama. But there have been cases in the past where threads were helpful to the point of having others in the PCF community to evaluate the facts of the case, and provide input, where it convinced the seller to resolve legitimate issues with the buyer. The more helpful threads I seem to recall just stuck to the facts, avoided name-calling, and asked others on PCF for their suggestions/input on the best way to resolve. But it still called out the party who was involved.

 

[BGinGA]

Possible that the missing cases were sent via second (cheaper, slower) package, and haven't arrived yet. Did he supply you with tracking numbers, or any kind of notice that the items had been shipped?

 

[joepro]

Carpe Diem! No wait, Bon Jour! Hold on, Caveat Emptor! Aka, let the buyer beware. But the fact is, we can't be such a pussified group that we can't call out a deadbeat, d1ckhead, or scammer. Posting photos of a scumbag's family may be going a little too far, but we can certainly call the actor out and put him on trial.

There are a majority of awesome people in the international chip community that I would hand over the keys to my house, but to let a few bad apples be ignored wouldn't be right. You broke the terms of your deal? In the immortal words of Don Corleone, "you can act like a man!" Give us your side of the story or act like Michael Jackson and beat it.

 

[ovo]

I will add that some people might have mental issues on this site, ( not trying to be funny). Mental illness is a real problem in this world.

 

[Beakertwang]

Heard from the seller, and everything is good. Apparently, he sent the cases in a separate package via USPS, while the chips were sent FedEx. Should have them soon.