Cash game chip breakdown advice (0,50-1, future proof up to 1/2 or 1/3) (7 Viewers)

[Frode789]

Hi guys.

Some background: I have been running tournaments with my friends (of which lately with my custom 500 chip ceramic set, thank you PCF for the valuable input). It has been a 300 NOK (300 NOK equates to ~32 USD) buy in tournament, with a optional 100 NOK addon. So the total loss they at most could get is about ~43 USD. So the price range is definitely in the "friendly" range to get lots of play out of not that much cash, while still having some money on the table, which is intended, to keep my friends that are less poker savy also in the mix.

We are now several people that also want to try out cash. Just tried a few times using the tournament chips. Been fun, so I wanted to pick up some Majestic clays to form my cash set. Eyeing about 600-650 chips. Based on my tournaments, I want to keep the spirit of fairly low stakes, to have it still social and not getting too serious and people feeling like they cannot afford a few buyins of loss, plenty of chips in play and room to play before you go bust. (my tournaments are super deep @466BB, with start stacks of 57 per person - works fantastic).

The rundown: Cash set with Clay majestics. I cannot decide on the breakdown.
Single table 8-MAX. Buy in 100-200. Rebuy up to 200 or 50% big stack. I dont imagine most would re-buy for more than 3 bullets. That would be f.ex 600 NOK ~ 65 USD.
Primarily 0,5/1 set, occational 1/2 or 1/3 if I am thinking future proofing or depending on how group might change over time. Breakdown feedback?

0,50 - 50 pcs.
1 - 200 pcs.
5 - 280 pcs.
25 - 100 pcs.
100 - 20 pcs.
= 650 pcs. Total bank 6125.

Reasoning: 0,50 not needed much, outside of sb posting and the occational 2,5/3,5 raise pre-flop. Post flop bids have to be formed with 1s. Also I love the design on the 0,5s. =)
Plenty of 1s with 200, even if the game plays more chill with bids pre of 2,5-4,5 rather than 5+ opens. And that is what I mostly expect based on my group dynamics. That's 25 per player at 8 max.

5 as the main workhorse, 35 per player at 8 max. In Norway, at least in my smaller experience, the mountains of 5s are not as prevalent as in USA, and the usage of more 25s is a bit more efficient when its home dealt (you might burn me for saying this ). Thus went for a healthy stack of 100 25s. Also 20 100s in case of 1/2 or 1/3.

 

[Kam]

I think it’s pretty good, my only advice really is just get a full rack of the 0.5 or maybe just skip the 0.5 denom. You’re good with 50 though, can always try and see how it works out and add on if you want.

I play similar stakes at my home game and I think everything else works for your $0.5/$1 stakes and the 5s are just preference.

If you end up thinking you’d host $1/$2 or $1/$3 you’d probably want to add more to your top end to be safe. We ended up with around $4.5k on the table in my last $0.5/$1 game, but had quite a few all ins, lots of rebuys and add ons and half the table play higher stakes at the casino, so that can affect how much you need. If your crew is more chill with smaller raises etc, then probably good for the $1/$2.

GL

 

[Frode789]

Thank you!

Yeah I am just scared of "chasing off" friends that might find the stakes too steep with 1/1.. (in which case the standard buy in would be 200, and 3 bullets is 600). With the 0,5 chip I even have the potential of going 0,5/0,5 game with a max buyin of 100, reducing it by 50%. If the group potentially requiring it.

But even with 0,5/0,5, since there are 200 1s in play, shouldn't ~50-60 0,5s probably suffice? Yeah I can try it. I am buying a 1000 cage anyway, so I'll have room for more if needed. Just having the cost in mind also for the total set.. =)

As for 1/3, yeah I might need some more 100s. Though I think 1/2 will most likely be the limit. I can always order more 100s if the stakes eventually rise more than expected.

 

[MC_CPA]

I'd consider getting 660 chips to fit in racks, unless you happen to have a case that fits 650.

 

[Kam]

Thank you!

Yeah I am just scared of "chasing off" friends that might find the stakes too steep with 1/1.. (in which case the standard buy in would be 200, and 3 bullets is 600). With the 0,5 chip I even have the potential of going 0,5/0,5 game with a max buyin of 100, reducing it by 50%. If the group potentially requiring it.

But even with 0,5/0,5, since there are 200 1s in play, shouldn't ~50-60 0,5s probably suffice? Yeah I can try it. I am buying a 1000 cage anyway, so I'll have room for more if needed. Just having the cost in mind also for the total set.. =)

As for 1/3, yeah I might need some more 100s. Though I think 1/2 will most likely be the limit. I can always order more 100s if the stakes eventually rise more than expected.

I use a 0.25 as my frac, I found when I gave everyone $2 or 8 x fracs they kept having to make change even for the small blind. So now I give everyone $3 or 12 x fracs up until I have 100 chips out there.

So your 50x should work, but if you think you’ll step down to 0.5/0.5, I’d just buy 100x 0.5 and you’ll have the flexibility.

GL!

 

[Frode789]

I decided to bump it a bit further and went with 700 chips to get that full rack of 0,5s.. So hopefully a pretty flexible set that can cover 0,5/0,5, 0,5/1, 1/1 and 1/2. I bought the beatiful Majestics from Pokershop.de. I got a pretty good price. Also bought a 1K chip cage with racks to cover the set.

Cash set chip breakdown:

0,5 kr – 100 pcs (50 kr)
1 Kr – 200 pcs (200 kr)
5 Kr – 280 pcs (1400 kr)
25 Kr – 100 pcs (2500 kr)
100 Kr – 20 pcs (2000 kr)
= 700 pcs (7150 kr)

If the stakes get up above the current bank (very doubtful), I can just add 20 100s and 20 25s for an additional 2500 kr.

 

[Kam]

Nice congrats.

Now you’ve started down the rabbit hole, recommend you get some nice plastic playing cards if you haven’t got them already.

@Marius L @LeGold @Rakrul can maybe give some options for local/EU buy options.

GL

 

[Frode789]

Yeah got some nice cards, we played tournaments for a while.

About the "home rules" for my first official cash game. I want there to be different stakes outlined so that, depending on who comes, they have a stake level that is comfortable. And that all are expected to bring (at least) x3 buy-ins, to not risk the night ending very prematurely (at MOST we are able to play once a month, but often only every other month, hence that part being very important).

• 0,50/0,50 kr initial buy-in 100 kr. X3 buy-in 300 kr.
• 0,50/1 kr initial buy-in 200 kr. X3 buy-in 600 kr.
• 1/1 kr initial buy-in 250 kr. X3 buy-in 750 kr.
• 1/2 kr initial buy-in 400 kr. X3 buy-in 1200 kr.

The outlier here is 0,5/1 and 1/1 since they both have the same BB size.
Would you say the difference is enough to warrant it a different "tier"? I tried bumping the max buy-in to bridge the gap between the 300 and 750 kr stakes. I saw someone on PCF saying that there will be some smaller "chain effects" in a 0,50/1 game versus 1/1 game, while others said it plays absolutely the same. I guess it will be player/group dependent, whether they utilize the 0,50 chip pre-flop in raises or not. And the SB being 50% of BB (and not equal) will cause the SB to fold some percentage more to raises compared to if the blind was = BB (I assume). So my reasoning is that the 1/1 will play slightly larger without the 0,50 chip (think over the whole night worth of hands).

Would you allow 0,50 chip to be used in bets post-flop or only pre-flop? If the pot isn't very big, then I suppose the 0,50 can be warranted.

A hypothetical single hand example (1/1 in parentheses).
LJ raises 3,5 kr (4 kr)
CO calls 3,5 kr (4 kr)
BTN calls 3,5 kr (4 kr)
SB raises to to chips currently in pot - 12 kr (14 kr)
BB folds 1 kr (1 kr)
LJ calls additional 8,5 kr (10 kr)
CO calls additional 8,5 kr (10 kr)
BTN folds

Total pot - 40,50 kr (47 kr) (~14% difference).

 

[detroitdad]

This breakdown works for multiple stakes.

 

[CardRally]

Enjoy the set!
I agree with those that say 1/1 plays essentially the same as .50/1.
As far as the .50 goes, I’d definitely allow any bet size for simplicity. If a chip is in your stack you should be able to bet with it. Most people will round it off anyways.

 

[LeGold]

If you want a locally available bunch of Majestics, for say a limit game, let me know.

 

[Frode789]

Thanks guys!

@LeGold: Will do

 

[Coyote]

Make sure to make the fractionals Non-Denominated, so that they can still be used as $2 or something in higher games, when inflation takes over.

If you don't intend to have racks in a case (in which case 800 chips would be ideal), a Versa Deluxe "500ct" can carry 520 CPCs or 540 other chips in its 10 rows, plus 4x25=100 chips in the middle, in SOFT tubes, once you remove (with bare hands) the unnecessary middle space which is supposed for cards and crap.
So, total 620+4 for CPCs or 640+8 for Paulson or Tina chips.

 

[RadicusScout]

I've always liked this post on how to think about denominations for specific game sizes. It gave me a good framework to build from. Hope this helps!

 

[Frode789]

Make sure to make the fractionals Non-Denominated, so that they can still be used as $2 or something in higher games, when inflation takes over.

If you don't intend to have racks in a case (in which case 800 chips would be ideal), a Versa Deluxe "500ct" can carry 520 CPCs or 540 other chips in its 10 rows, plus 4x25=100 chips in the middle, in SOFT tubes, once you remove (with bare hands) the unnecessary middle space which is supposed for cards and crap.
So, total 620+4 for CPCs or 640+8 for Paulson or Tina chips.

I am buying Majestic, don't think they have that. And re-labeling is no go, I like the design. And to be fair, not a huge fan of non-denom chips But from an economical standpoint (re-using the chips again with increased cash value, without having to re-label or buy new) makes sense =)

Thanks for the Versa deluxe tip!!

 

[BuckMason]

My breakdown is as follows:
$0.25 - 100
$1 - 200
$5 - 300
$25 - 160
$100 - 100

For a $0.25-0.50 cash game, we’ve never ran out of $25s or ever used the $100s, but have had all the $0.25, $1, and $5s in play. If I ever upped the stakes and had a bigger game, I think my set would still work even for a $2/5 game. I think it really comes down to personal preference. Would you like to have a lot of chips on the table and pushing tons of chips into pots or not? My guys love hoarding the $0.25s and $1s.

 

[toothpic]

A really nice future proof set up would be the one below:
fracs - 100
$1 - 200
$5 - 300
$25 - 100
$100 - 100

 

[Coyote]

Or 160/40 or 150/50 for the 25s/100s

 

[Frode789]

My breakdown is as follows:
$0.25 - 100
$1 - 200
$5 - 300
$25 - 160
$100 - 100

For a $0.25-0.50 cash game, we’ve never ran out of $25s or ever used the $100s, but have had all the $0.25, $1, and $5s in play. If I ever upped the stakes and had a bigger game, I think my set would still work even for a $2/5 game. I think it really comes down to personal preference. Would you like to have a lot of chips on the table and pushing tons of chips into pots or not? My guys love hoarding the $0.25s and $1s.

Looks good, yeah that's like 15K bank. ^^ Should at least cover handily 1/3 for a single table (600 max buyin and 26 full rebuys, 2,9 each at 9 people).

As for me. I don't expect to use much the 100s, but it's nice to have a barrel in case you do suddenly get a deep game where you run out of 25s. =)
In my tournaments we like lots of chips. I run a deep stack with 140K start stack and each player with 57 chips It flows really well and people enjoy the nice stacks. However, there needs to be a middle road to the madness (^^). If there are literal "mountains of chips" in a cash game, I would personally find to slog everything down with all the stacking, counting, all ins etc, at least without a dedicated dealer. But definitely prefer a bit more than too few.

 

[BuckMason]

Looks good, yeah that's like 15K bank. ^^ Should at least cover handily 1/3 for a single table (600 max buyin and 26 full rebuys, 2,9 each at 9 people).

As for me. I don't expect to use much the 100s, but it's nice to have a barrel in case you do suddenly get a deep game where you run out of 25s. =)
In my tournaments we like lots of chips. I run a deep stack with 140K start stack and each player with 57 chips It flows really well and people enjoy the nice stacks. However, there needs to be a middle road to the madness (^^). If there are literal "mountains of chips" in a cash game, I would personally find to slog everything down with all the stacking, counting, all ins etc, at least without a dedicated dealer. But definitely prefer a bit more than too few.

Towards the end of the night, the guys tend to play a little looser and start sending the $0.25s and $1s my way as a “thank you” for hosting the game, so the mountains of chips on the table has its benefits as long as I don’t immediately donate them back playing carnival games

 

[Frode789]

Thoughts on the invitation? This isn't a big "poker club", it's to my local guy friends that usually hang around playing poker =). And some have only played my tournaments before.

Cash Game Poker Night
Welcome to the first official cash game hosted by XXX.
Expect a great poker atmosphere where we play as long as we want into the night! We’ll also have some fun side games to match the laid-back “chill vibes” of cash game poker. Alcohol isn’t required, but it’s recommended. I also have 3 separate guest rooms available if anyone wants to stay over, you’re very welcome to use them.

Food and drinks?
I’ll be ordering pizza and serving soda, snacks, and something strong for your glass.. I’m planning to make a pre-batched clarified Mojito, so it’s ready to pour and enjoy easily, worked really well the last time I tested it! Feel free to bring any additional drinks you prefer (beer, etc.).

What is a cash game?
• No one gets knocked out like in tournaments – you can top up your chips when low or re-buy if you run out of chips
• We play as long as we want – no fixed end time
• Fixed blinds – a more relaxed atmosphere without increasing blind pressure draining your stack
• Chips = Real money (1 chip = 1 NOK, 5 chips = 5 NOK, etc.)

Blinds & buy-in?
We decide the level ourselves. Options are:
• 0.50 / 0.50 NOK → 100 NOK buy-in (300 NOK if buying in x3)
• 0.50 / 1 NOK → 200 NOK buy-in (600 NOK if buying in x3)
• 1 / 2 NOK → 400 NOK buy-in (1200 NOK if buying in x3)

Recommendation: Bring around 3 buy-ins for the best experience and to avoid the table breaking too early. For comparison, the buy-in in my tournament is 400 NOK. It’s perfectly fine to start low and increase stakes later if desired.

Re-buy / Top-up?
• Top up between hands
• Min: Refill up to the max buy-in (e.g. max is 200 NOK and your stack is 75 NOK → add 125 NOK)
• Max: See list above
• Alternatively: Match up to 50% of the big stack, rounded to the nearest 25 NOK

Settlement?
I’ll keep track of everyone’s buy-ins throughout the night. At the end, all stacks are counted and recorded, and I’ll settle everything via Vipps.

Important
This is social poker – good vibes > everything else.
It’s standard etiquette to announce your departure (if you need to leave before the table breaks) at least 30 minutes in advance (if you still have chips in play).

 

[Coyote]

Absolutely set a time when a winning player can leave.
Loosing players can leave anytime.
A set time when the last orbit will be played can also be useful.

Clearly set or discuss the blinds and the buy-ins beforehand.
NO discussion upon arrival of the players.
Half the big stack eventually should be the absolute maximum (if not 1/3 of the big stack).

The Demos, (the lower 90% of the People in classical Greek), have always been a bunch of idiots, since ancient times. Their rule (Democracy) should stop outside your door. Inside that door, YOU rule.

 

[Kam]

A few additional things I note in mine, might not be relevant for you:

“no rake.” Might not be an issue in Norway, but I make a point of clarifying that in every invite, even if it’s to regulars - my stakes are pretty small, but want to avoid potential legal issues.

The only thing I charge for is if we get food delivered, and we split that cost roughly if they want some. I put that in my invite - if you’re covering the cost no need to clarify. I also offer other cheap drinks/beers/sponsored cocktails and snacks with no cost for those.

“Add ons/rebuys allowed any time up to half the large stack, top ups/rebuys are from the bank not other players.” - I had a few players early on buy / try to buy from other players at the table, not a big deal but better to clarify up front that chips get bought and cashed out through the bank only.

GL

 

[Frode789]

Absolutely set a time when a winning player can leave.
Loosing players can leave anytime.
A set time when the last orbit will be played can also be useful.

Clearly set or discuss the blinds and the buy-ins beforehand.
NO discussion upon arrival of the players.
Half the big stack eventually should be the absolute maximum (if not 1/3 of the big stack).

The Demos, (the lower 90% of the People in classical Greek), have always been a bunch of idiots, since ancient times. Their rule (Democracy) should stop outside your door. Inside that door, YOU rule.

Thanks.
I suppose that is fair (re. winner vs loser departure). Definitely re. pre-planning the expected blind level.
As for big stack, I agree I think I might reduce it to 1/3 to be fair, and test it first before potentially increasing it.

A few additional things I note in mine, might not be relevant for you:

“no rake.” Might not be an issue in Norway, but I make a point of clarifying that in every invite, even if it’s to regulars - my stakes are pretty small, but want to avoid potential legal issues.

The only thing I charge for is if we get food delivered, and we split that cost roughly if they want some. I put that in my invite - if you’re covering the cost no need to clarify. I also offer other cheap drinks/beers/sponsored cocktails and snacks with no cost for those.

“Add ons/rebuys allowed any time up to half the large stack, top ups/rebuys are from the bank not other players.” - I had a few players early on buy / try to buy from other players at the table, not a big deal but better to clarify up front that chips get bought and cashed out through the bank only.

GL

Yeah it's no problem here, at least in this stake level.
Normally we also split the food order costs. But I am covering it this time as its the first cash night =)

 

[Old State]

I’m confused …are you cashing in with local money and using US denominations? If the game gets popular I’d jump on a “Tina” buy and get some personalized chips in Norwegian denominations to not confuse players

Otherwise, I’d bet your players will end up preferring cash to tournaments…possibly by a LARGE margin. It’s really much better for as regular home game. It’s still crazy to me that cash poker needs to be explained …but I guess the younger generation grew up seeing it played that way on TV.

Cash is, in my opinion, the natural way to play poker. Tournaments are good for a change but cash is and will always be king in poker. The game was invented to play as cash!

I weened some low stakes tournmanent players over to cash with small stakes games $.25/.50 $60-80 max to start. That has gone to $1/1 $120 max buy-in with most of them still playing. I even got my old higher stakes cash friends to play down from $1/3 or $2/5 and they all enjoy it despite some initial skepticism. My game now fills up instantly with 10 and we have a few on the wating list.

 

[Frode789]

It's local. That's not an issue (IMO), as everyone know it's not USD =) The chip values are still correct, 1=1 etc.
I want to buy the Majestics as I love their design, simply put, and I wanted to try some clay chips finally. So I actually want that over any custom chips in ceramic with NOK value. I already have a great custom ceramic set from BR Pro, though for tournament poker.

haha! Yeah many of them do not know what cash game poker is, and since the only thing legally allowed in Norway in large scale is tournament poker (champion tournament once a year, which is broadcasted on Norwegian TV), cash game poker goes more under the radar.. So to speak.

Yeah I think cash game poker is a lot of fun, and I am sure, with the correct stakes sweet spot, this will be a hit!

I weened some low stakes tournmanent players over to cash with small stakes games $.25/.50 $60-80 max to start. That has gone to $1/1 $120 max buy-in with most of them still playing. I even got my old higher stakes cash friends to play down from $1/3 or $2/5 and they all enjoy it despite some initial skepticism. My game now fills up instantly with 10 and we have a few on the wating list.

Nice one! I also hope to get the stakes creeped up a bit once everyone is familiar with things.

 

[Old State]

It's local. That's not an issue (IMO), as everyone know it's not USD =) The chip values are still correct, 1=1 etc.
I want to buy the Majestics as I love their design, simply put, and I wanted to try some clay chips finally. So I actually want that over any custom chips in ceramic with NOK value. I already have a great custom ceramic set from BR Pro, though for tournament poker.

Ok got you. Sounds good!

Just so you know if you aren’t aware….Majestics aren’t really clay despite what the website says. The are “China Clays” …so basically a chalky type of plastic. I’d recommend you get samples of some Tina hybrid chips and Majestic (if you don’t already) . As the owner of actual clay CPCs and Tina hybrids (and having handled Majestics) I say the Tina hybrids feel and look closer to real clay chips than anything out there.

And now with the new chip designing tool you can really make them look like clays! Just a thought .

 

[Frode789]

Ok got you. Sounds good!

Just so you know if you aren’t aware….Majestics aren’t really clay despite what the website says. The are “China Clays” …so basically a chalky type of plastic. I’d recommend you get samples of some Tina hybrid chips and Majestic (if you don’t already) . As the owner of actual clay CPCs and Tina hybrids (and having handled Majestics) I say the Tina hybrids feel and look closer to real clay chips than anything out there.

And now with the new chip designing tool you can really make them look like clays! Just a thought .

Yeah sorry i meant "clay" . Yes i have samples of the majestics already. I did definitely like them.

 

[Frode789]

Ready for game Thanks for all the tips guys. First cash game this saturday - hopefully it will be a good session with lots of fun.

We will begin with 0,5-1 for first game.
I think I will add +100 chips later, which I think will serve me more than enough for 1/2 and 1/3 in a potential future.
So totaling eventually at 800 chips for single table cash.

Final breakdown will then be:
0,5 kr – 100 pcs (50 kr) -- 1 RACK 50 kr
1 Kr – 200 pcs (200 kr) -- 2 RACKS 200 kr
5 Kr – 280 pcs (1400 kr) -- +20 pcs (300 pcs) 3 RACKS 1500 kr
25 Kr – 100 pcs (2500 kr) -- +40 pcs (140 pcs) 1,4 RACKS 3500 kr
100 Kr – 20 pcs (2000 kr) -- +40 pcs (60 pcs) 0,6 RACKS 6000 kr
= 700 pcs (7150 kr) -- 800 pcs (8 RACKS) – (11 250 kr)

Final two racks of my bird cage will just be for fun chips (nit, show hand etc).

 

[Ibenfive301]

Cool set Frode! I also run cash games with 1kr-2kr blinds and it is going great. Poker cash games arent as common in Norway, but i think it is much better than tournaments since its less luck or "gambling" and more chill.

Its also hard to find good chips for an affordable price here in Norway since you have to pay 25% extra in tax. Maybe i will check out pokershop.de, your chips are nice!