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Tiger Palace Rarity Chart (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter MC_CPA
- Start date
BigGrizz
Flush
Could we ask what, proportiinally, were the most and least produced chips of the lot?
@kk405 @JeepologyOffroad
@kk405 @JeepologyOffroad
acezag
Flush
Great post - appreciate the perspective.Mind your own bidness!!! JK
I don’t think anyone is wrong for being curious. Counts, production details, and backstory are interesting, but curiosity does not create obligation. Grandma's ham story does not fit either. I think each vendor's iteration of the NAGBs had different reasons for keeping information to themselves. Regardless, Tiger Palace was a private transaction, not a public group buy with promised accounting. As others have pointed out, final numbers have not historically been the norm, except sometimes after a sale is complete and only if the seller chooses to disclose them.
I can think of several legitimate reasons not to disclose. Exact counts can distort behavior involving sales or trades. Some people (we know who they are) would hoard the “low count” chips, try to corner certain denoms, others would use the data to attack pricing to further their own agendas (have seen that occur even without the numbers being released), others would treat every future sale like a cross-examination of the seller’s cost basis. It also gives PCF one more thing to argue about, even though the market ultimately comes down to what chips are actually available for sale and how many people are looking for them at a given time, not how many specific chips technically exist in closets or racks.
Yes, it would be interesting. I would read it. But interesting does not mean it is owed. As pointed out above, the information was requested and obviously the request was denied. What's the point of harping on it now? Ken does not owe production information to PCF. Buy the chips if they are worth it to you. Do not buy them if they are not. The rest is curiosity being dressed up as entitlement.
To be clear, I'm making a post as part of my daily addiction that's more musing than anything - as a grateful owner and fan of Tigers, I don't think Ken or any other NAGB organizer owes me or the forum anything, and I don't think it's entitlement to argue for change, even if the change is unlikely (and I think it obviously is unlikely). I do think NAGBs (and my Tigers) would become more valuable, and this hobby more accessible, with data. But you make good points about some of the negatives.
Definitely more than 30, id bet whatever
And also what their income is too plz and thanks
BigGrizz
Flush
Oh you guys... Still on about that.
And I got the data I wanted! Lol
And I got the data I wanted! Lol
acezag
Flush
Wow, really? Someone is hoarding those Russets like a mf'er!
(Wait, is it you?)
Well I was thinking blurples tbh
acezag
Flush
Ok, I'm definitely just pissing in the wind at this point, so feel free to ignore. But I feel like the "how MUcH dID THey MAkE THoUGH??@!" argument is made only by the kinds of folks who do not / will not buy NAGBs. Actual collectors understand that if there is no profit, there is likely no hobby. I personally hope that every NAGB organizer makes a significant profit - that's how we guarantee as collectors that there will be future NAGBs. Anyone who thinks differently isn't being rational.
Rolex doesn't give a fuck what the non-collectors think, and no one is giving two seconds of air to anyone who asks "BUT HOW MUCH DID ROLEX MAKE ON THAT WATCH?" It would be goofy to even care they're asking. Either you value the brand and the collection, or you don't. Feel free to fuck off from Rolex discussions, purchases, etc if the latter. Rolex and Co. don't give a shit.
Why do these people and their inanities get to dictate the terms on PCF so often?
sleepypiggly
Flush
So how much did they pay you to write this post?
I am mostly just musing too but there are some (not necessarily from you) “well we know this, so that should be disclosed too” type arguments going on from people.
If it is just “data” some folks want, then it makes me wonder why those folks are not asking Dennis exactly how many Key Wests he has had made, or asking Justin how many ceramics are being ordered and what percentage are actual unique creations versus knock-offs, or asking Chenglin Industrial how many fake Tiger Palace ceramic knockoffs it produced on its butt ugly and stupid looking rhc mold, or demanding CPC tell us how many Rounders chips it has made and in what denominations. I mean it is just data from vendors, right? Some of it would even be interesting, but no one seems to ask for those numbers to be produced or seem to have any expectation they would be.
While there is no harm in asking IMO, there is also no harm in being told “no”. I don’t see why Tigers should be treated differently than the other products. Just my take on it.
acezag
Flush
I think the main difference here, using a car metaphor, is the difference between a 2026 Ford passenger vehicle and a Ferrari.
Anybody who wants a Ford and can afford it can have one. Many who could afford ten Ferraris will never sniff one.
Clearly defining that exclusivity is what makes a brand exclusive, and granted the advantages of being so.
acezag
Flush
If I'm keeping my brands straight, there's a whole list of requirements just to get on the waiting list, and another set to be invited to buy one. Folks who do buy also have to sign an agreement on what they're allowed and not allowed to do with the car they "own," which will be repo'd if they break it.If you can afford ten Ferraris I’m pretty sure they will sell you at least one though
Edit: if you ask nicely
acezag
Flush
This is also why Rolex, Ferrari, etc often share numbers and limited release data and all the rest - they are catering to their fans and customers, who LOVE THIS STUFF because they love the brand and want to be immersed in it (and the exclusivity / being part of the club). The detractors don't factor in.Guess it’s easier here then
But yes if you paint it in a way they don’t like or put a sticker on it that annoys them you will probably not buy one ever again.
GamingWithChips
Two Pair
I think they will let anyone buy a pre-owned car, but if you want to get a new model then you need to be in the know. And yes, if you 'deface' them they will black list you lol
It sounds somewhat similar to the whole Paulson deal. Anyone can buy off the used market, but only a few can purchase directly from them? When I joined PCF everyone said "Paulson doesn't sell to consumers anymore, only casinos" then I learned what "NAGB" stood for...so who knows how it all works.
BigGrizz
Flush
Oh that's simple. Tigers are just a more interesting product.
That said, there seems to be a portion of this community that is averse to curiosity. Of course people can say no. But the aggressive, "Mind your business" crowd need to get some sand out of some deep areas.
upNdown
Royal Flush
I have no interest in tigers.
And yet I do find it interesting that somebody paid $1400 for a rack of tigers today.
I assume they must be pretty rare on the rarity chart, but I’m not interested enough to look.
I guess whatever interest I have is simply a desire to know as much about poker chips as possible.
I think there’s a point here, but I’m not sure.
BigGrizz
Flush
This^
When people have hobbies its normal to seek knowledge.
When people have hobbies its normal to seek knowledge.
BigGrizz
Flush
Also dang. That was for the secondary 1s. I would think this would be one of the most common chips produced. Goes to show that numbers and price aren't inherently correlated.
What could be cool is a catalogue showing what the current prices of chips are by like last 3 sales. Obviously it would be way to much work to maintain but still...
Minus
Pair
They *are* one of the most common chips. They're also ready to go as a normal cash denom, same as most of the other Very Rare things on the chart.
Compare something like the cash $5,000s, both objectively amazing designs. There aren't nearly as many of them in existence, but
1.) Nobody plays cash home games for that much money,
2.) Tournament players are a minority,
3.) Even among tournament sets, only like a barrel or two of 5,000 point chips are usually wanted.
That puts the demand for the $5,000 chips firmly in the realm of relabelers. But relabelers don't bother with them because there aren't enough in existence to make big sets out of them. Ergo, no demand. They may be "commonly available", but if you try to put together a limit set of them, you're going to get stonewalled.
Meanwhile, most people don't want to bother with relabeling, most people play cash games, most cash sets want lots of $1's.
So more people want $1's, and the people who want $1's want more of the $1's. 2-10 racks++ each. There may be ten or twenty times as many racks of the $1 chips in existence, but demand is a hundred times higher.
Compare something like the cash $5,000s, both objectively amazing designs. There aren't nearly as many of them in existence, but
1.) Nobody plays cash home games for that much money,
2.) Tournament players are a minority,
3.) Even among tournament sets, only like a barrel or two of 5,000 point chips are usually wanted.
That puts the demand for the $5,000 chips firmly in the realm of relabelers. But relabelers don't bother with them because there aren't enough in existence to make big sets out of them. Ergo, no demand. They may be "commonly available", but if you try to put together a limit set of them, you're going to get stonewalled.
Meanwhile, most people don't want to bother with relabeling, most people play cash games, most cash sets want lots of $1's.
So more people want $1's, and the people who want $1's want more of the $1's. 2-10 racks++ each. There may be ten or twenty times as many racks of the $1 chips in existence, but demand is a hundred times higher.
acezag
Flush
I'm biased, but IMO there's no replacing any chip in the secondary cash lineup (25c / $1 / $5 / $20/$25). The sum is something special.
Getting creative with the other Tiger lineups is part of the fun, but not this one. So that's one reason for the demand - someone buys one piece, they're likely buying all the pieces in set proportions.
Almost like some of the hate people get on here for removing labels on their own chips. lol
FWIW, I think that was only specifically on the Enzo Ferrari, iirc. The primary factor was they wanted to make sure the owners didn’t garage the things. They built it to be driven and driven hard, so they wanted owners who weren’t afraid to do so. But, that’s neither here nor there. Your point is valid, it was one of the “cooler” things Ferrari did with the car who was named after the company founder, imo.
BigGrizz
Flush
That makes sense. The TP secondary really stands as @JeepologyOffroad 's magnum opus. I personally rank it as #2 all time as far as lineups (after ESPT which is the GOAT).
"In the absence of data, we will always make up stories" Brené Brown
When faced with uncertainty or lack of information, the human brain is wired to create narratives to fill the gaps, often defaulting to fear or self-protection.
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