Where Have all the Chips Gone? (8 Viewers)

[ChaosRock]

Not trying to get myself branded as a villainous radical who respects statistics but…

it seems to me your demographic does relate to this particular case. As with eg the housing market, because the cost of things has only steadily outpaced increases in wages, being older would correlate with a time when generally things people wanted were more accessible.

Not for everyone, not all things, not at every given time. But as a general trend. Which is what big data like demographics cares about. I don’t know the guy but I doubt @BigGrizz cares about the particular financial situation of any one person here. General trends folks.

In 2010, a X quality chip set cost Y% of median income. Today it certainly costs a much higher percent. So yes, someone in their 50’s or 60’s, is more likely to have had the opportunity to purchase chips at a cheaper price relative to their income than anyone trying to buy chips today. So if someone is older and has a nicer chip collection, we can’t determine it is because that one person is older, but it might be a non trivial likelihood of explain why a lot of older chippers might have better collections

Oh, I agree that age correlates with the collections (although not perfectly obv.). And I also agree with the likelihood that the average income around here tends to be above that in other less expensive hobbies/collectable. As the car collection community income should be higher than ours. As I said, I think it should be almost a given. Three to four figures chip sets are insane proposition to 99.99% of people.

The slight problem, for lack of a better word, I have with it, is that it does not explain why the market was hot a year ago (or two, or whatever) and now it's not (arguably), the question the OP presented. So has the demographics changed significantly in the last year? That was my point, not the absolute, but the delta.

The other point that I didn't make (didn't want to make) is that I am not a fan of dividing the community in young, old, rich, poor, private sector, state employee, so on and so forth endlessly... Especially when gross generalizations are made (they often are) on each one of those. It is a source of fragmentation and not unity and it does not help our understanding.

 

[raynmanas]

Oh shit sorry I didn’t realize we were back on topic. It changes pretty fast. I thought we were still crying about being poor.

Yes I think fear of replacement is very valid. It was easier when there was only a hundred or so members, but it gets much harder when there are hundreds of members.

The money for the early adopters is there, they got chips for almost free and can now sell them for a fortune. But it seems nobody needs or wants a fortune anymore.

There has more to keeping sets than just getting them cheap. Maybe people just like them. I do “collections”. You have to have 5-6 of anything to have a collection. I can’t tell you what the mystery limit is as to how many constitute a complete collection, it’s different for different stuff. Sometimes it’s because a set is pretty, or it’s affordable, or maybe there’s a need to preserve it or whatever - it goes beyond the money on why some stuff just doesn’t come up for sale. None of you could afford the stuff WW bought anyway, really his spree into the high end stuff provided funds to lock up a lot of the middle stuff. Same with free government money.

i will say that i regret every set i've ever sold...well, almost - the majestics i would have been just as happy putting in a blender, but i digress. that's why i decided to just buy custom CPCs and be done with it. nobody will ever want my silly design, so i am stuck with them one way or the other.

now if i could just stop stockpiling starbursts for no reason.

 

[upNdown]

I would like to see more talk about putting China clays into a blender, but I don’t know if that’s gatekeeping or not.

 

[ekricket]

The other point that I didn't make (didn't want to make) is that I am not a fan of dividing the community in young, old, rich, poor, private sector, state employee, so on and so forth endlessly... Especially when gross generalizations are made (they often are) on each one of those. It is a source of fragmentation and not unity and it doesn't not help our understanding.

It makes it easier to assign “blame” for poor circumstances. “It’s only because I’m x (insert category of your choice) that I can’t have what other people have.”

Makes it easier to fib to yourself about how things really are or what you can and should be doing about them. It’s “x groups” fault.

“They took/locked/used it all up so I can just give up now because this is how it will be forever from now”.

 

[Taghkanic]

Are that many people not selling bc they r going to lose a few hundred dollars? Maybe a thousand? If people need money they will sell.

Yeah, it’s kinda hilarious how everyone as a poker player pretends to understand the sunk cost fallacy… Just not for chips sales.

Personal example:

I have a large Jacks tournament set in prime condition which hasn’t seen use since the onset of COVID. During the pandemic I assembled an inlay-replaced THC cash set, and switched to cash hosting in 2022.

So probably I should sell my Jacks tourney set.

Why haven’t I?

1) Foolishly trying to time the market. Whenever I geared up to take pics, etc., either it seemed like Jacks prices were way down; or that someone else listed a similar set first. So I held off.

2) Uncertainty about how to price and market the set. I assembled it over a 6-9 month period, with different prices paid ranging from the Chip Room floor to top dollar. (One rack of high denoms cost me $30/chip.) Do I average these? Do I settle for current market value, to the extent there are enough recent comps at all?

Do I try to sell the whole thing, or make it two smaller sets, or just start right out of the gate offering barrels and racks? Regular listing(s) or auction(s)? Will I catch heat if I price this too high, or look stupid if I price it too low? … Analysis paralysis sets in fast.

3) Fantasizing about resuming tournament hosting. It is unlikely that I will resume hosting two or three table tournaments, ever. But it is hard to let go of that hope. I have toyed with the idea of doing a one-table league for my cash regs, with a WSOP Main entry as 1st prize. But again, probably fooling myself there.

4) Past sales regrets. After completing my custom THC cash set, I sold my beloved Avalons. My thinking was that I just really didn’t need two huge cash sets. I made a modest profit on that sale – probably could’ve held out for a lot more – but at the time it felt cleansing to start paring things down to essentials.

However, in retrospect, I feel like I should’ve kept those chips, even if they only got in play once in a blue moon. I’ll never be able to assemble a set like that again, I don’t think. So that prior seller’s regret makes me a little more gun shy about deaccessioning another choice set.

5) Financial security. I’m hardly a 1%er, but overall I’m way more financially secure now than when I started chipping roughly a decade ago. So the windfall of selling a large, desirable set is not such a tempting prospect for me as it would have been in (say) 2018. If I needed a chunk of cash urgently, I’d have sold already.

For now HOARDING is the path of least resistance. The set isn’t losing significant value, and may actually be increasing. Barring some unexpected need to raise $8-$12K in a hurry, they can sit in my cabinet unseen indefinitely. Plus, the way stock markets are fluctuating, I can justify my chips as a hedge, right?

Probably what will happen is that some morning I wake up, impulsively drag those chip trays out of the case to my table, take some beauty shots, and list these for close to my purchase price, pocket the cash. Just because it’s silly to own anything I don’t need/use.

But the timing for that will probably be random… and I suspect that many others have some of these same factors inhibiting them from selling in a hurry.

 

[BarrieJ3]

My fav part is that is that @BigGrizz and co don’t even know who they’re arguing with.

Kevin’s completely trolling per usual (I think, at this point that vs delusional is a thin line). While self proclaimed “elitist”, I don’t think that term quite fits…

 

[Lil Tuna]

I did not intend to imply that it was. I think my post was a pretty neutral observation.

What I’ve mostly read in this thread the last couple of days tends to bring me to the conclusion that there are some folks who want certain things in life but look for reasons to explain why they don’t or feel they can have them.

I’d just say to those folks that anything is possible if you want something bad enough.
It won’t always be fair in your mind and most of the time your timing will be off but if you really want it, those are the situations in life we will all deal with.

It’s usually not till much later that we figure out if our choices were good ones or not.
That’s just life.

 

[raynmanas]

It’s usually not till much later that we figure out if our choices were good ones or not.
That’s just life.

amen to that!

 

[BigGrizz]

My fav part is that is that @BigGrizz and co don’t even know who they’re arguing with.

Kevin’s completely trolling per usual (I think, at this point that vs delusional is a thin line). While self proclaimed “elitist”, I don’t think that term quite fits…

View attachment 1668301

I actually never called anyone elitist. I was decrying gatekeeping at the community level.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I actually never called anyone elitist. I was decrying gatekeeping at the community level.

Eh. No one cares what you actually said. (I was just referencing the picture he’s - potentially playfully but potentially not - painting of himself)

You have multiple people screaming loudly over the top of you, making the same points they scream about in every thread they post in.

It’s so normalized, we know what’s happening without even reading all the posts in this thread. I’ve been in your spot. There were countless others before me, there’ll be countless others after you.

lol I told you to give up

Why not just share a chip set you really like, and the fav you own today?

 

[BigGrizz]

I like my cheap customs and how they came out. Been a hit with my group too! I think they look pretty good when lined up.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I like my cheap customs and how they came out. Been a hit with my group too! I think they look pretty good when lined up.

View attachment 1668313

I don’t like cheap chips to own because they’re too easy to buy and sell. At $100, $200, $300 a pop, it was easy to take $20 or $40 or $60 hits and keep changing them out.

Over time, the constant changing and shipping and losses add up. But if someone has self control, I dig em. Favorites were the CPS china clays at .40 a chip. Was a HUGE expense as my first set.

Don’t like owning, but found that I really like playing with them.

People like the feel of Paulsons because everyone says so. But after only playing with Paulsons for almost my entire short poker career, I’ve found that I’m really enjoying playing with slippery ceramics.

They still shuffle totally fine, stack fine, I enjoy playing with them in hand far more than non slippery chips, I enjoy the way they slide on felts, and they aren’t horrible like matsui GB chips with exploding barrels.

I like a nice mix (have played with a diff set almost everytime I’ve ever played poker, rare to repeat). Go check out LeLes collection, I think he has a thread somewhere. Really enjoy his, as he has a great mix of plastic/clay/ceramic and even mix of plaques maybe cash bundles. I think it’s well curated

 

[FestiveKnight]

Well here’s some more info to shake up the calculations a bit. 3 years prior to making this purchase I went through a divorce and literally lost more than half my shit.

When the dust cleared I was left with just under 48k in a 401k, a paid off 96 Ford explorer and about $8k cash in my checking account.
Rented an apartment for about 3 years till I scraped up enough for a down payment on a townhouse in June of 09. The housing crash happened shortly there after but I wasn’t throwing my money away on rent anymore so I didn’t care that my property dropped 30k in value shortly after purchase.

I will admit I’m by far better off in many ways now than in those days but I’d venture to say my age has nothing at all to do with it.
I blame my situation now purely on my aspirations and my willingness to pursue them.

I don’t know the guy but I doubt @BigGrizz cares about the particular financial situation of any one person here. General trends folks.

 

[Lil Tuna]

I don’t know the guy but I doubt @BigGrizz cares about the particular financial situation of any one person here. General trends folks.

And this is exactly why he’ll convince himself he can’t own a set of Paulsons till he’s 60 years old.
He just doesn’t fit into the trend and as an individual he surely couldn’t find a way to own a Paulson set based on his own merit.

 

[doublebooyah85]

 

[Lil Tuna]

It’s so normalized, we know what’s happening without even reading all the posts in this thread. I’ve been in your spot. There were countless others before me, there’ll be countless others after you.

 

[softchewy]

 

[BarrieJ3]

Jfc. It’s a guy in his mid 30s with a govt job, kids, family, home, investments.

He plays poker with friends.

Sounds like he’s doing just fine in life. Happy even.

Here’s a WILD guess. In his current lifestyle, as he stumbled upon PCF, he thought woah look at all these things constantly on the first page. $5-10k poker chip sets, and that’s not a rarity!

It’s not what he would choose to spend a used car price on, and likely not what he could afford to do immediately today as it’s not something he was aware of nor saving for or planned. Another WILD guess is that his poker mates are likely similar in age, and they too probably would think woah, $5k+ poker sets!?

And like most reasonable people, he’s probably thinking man that’s a surprise. They’re saying the markets all wonky too and chips are moving weirdly. Huh, I wonder if this forum of random people behind user names happen to be like me, or if I’m a little fish in big pond, or whatever.

And the guy happened to ask the question.

And then every person that could possibly twist it into some weird thing so they could repeat themselves for the 30th time did so.

It’s WEIRD to repeatedly tell people how h hard you had it (and then tell people they’re playing the victim).

It’s WEIRD to repeatedly tell brand new strangers you haven’t interacted with befor about your financial history, relationships, etc.

It’s WEIRD to tell people 30 years your junior “one day they’ll make it” when they’ve already far surpassed you in what you’re referencing.

It’s WEIRD to repeatedly color people as unsuccessful/unhappy beggars when they ask a question.

It’s WEIRD to feel called out and defend your chipping journey over and over and over and over when literally no one references you.

It’s WEIRD to regularly declare yourself in the upper echelon of chip collections or elitist when literally most folks wouldn’t and people can come in after 2 months of chipping and have more simply by spending.

This isn’t aimed at any one person, it’s a couple. But it happens frequently enough that there’s gotta be a reason. Idk if you’re unhappy with what you have, idk if you’re not sure how to be involved more in the community unless it’s this one topic, idk if maybe you just get your druthers by arguing with any new member under 50.

But like, noones trying to hurt your feelings, and these guys generally are just like “wow that’s cool y’all are crazy with your chips”.

Here’s some chips, Housemold hotstamp mixed set project:

 

[curlyhead44]

And this is exactly why he’ll convince himself he can’t own a set of Paulsons till he’s 60 years old.
He just doesn’t fit into the trend and as an individual he surely couldn’t find a way to own a Paulson set based on his own merit.

christ man whats wrong with you

edit - oop there i go feeding the trolls against my own advice * scratch that

 

[MatrixExplosion]

Signing onto PCF today

 

[BigGrizz]

And this is exactly why he’ll convince himself he can’t own a set of Paulsons till he’s 60 years old.
He just doesn’t fit into the trend and as an individual he surely couldn’t find a way to own a Paulson set based on his own merit.

Stay classy.

 

[Lil Tuna]

christ man whats wrong with you

edit - oop there i go feeding the trolls against my own advice * scratch that

Honestly I’m just bored and waiting around to head to a massage appointment in a bit.

And @BarrieJ3 is chirping and he secretly likes when I chirp back.

 

[Lil Tuna]

This isn’t aimed at any one person

 

[BarrieJ3]

christ man whats wrong with you

edit - oop there i go feeding the trolls against my own advice * scratch that

I’ve met most of them. Good, kind people. It’s always the same 4-6, with Kevin being the constant and by far mor combative.

If I played armchair psych and took a wild guess, and I could be way off, I’d venture:

They’ve been part of this forum for years and years, this hobby for decades. They’ve made lifelong friends. They’ve chipped in organic ways, based on respect and relationships.

They have chips that make them perfectly happy, no question.

But it’s decades later. The market has long surpassed where they’d be interested as super active chippers. The chips that are “cool” have differed greatly from their tastes nowadays.

Some folks adapted, some folks are still relevant, etc. They are mostly not.

And now they deal with new members coming in like woah wtf how do people have all this how do they get it shits crazy woah woah woah! And…they’re in the same boat. Noones clamoring for their chips. Noones clamoring for their opinion.

And while they prob truly don’t care and don’t need to be like and don’t need to mentioned, it still sucks and is annoying to watch everything be…different.

It’s nice to be relevant. It’s nice to have your 20 or whatever years invested be respected. It’s hard to watch people here for 2 months or even 2 years complain, when in reality you have so much to complain about comparing today to your 20 years ago.

Idk, may be way off. But if not, they could def verbalize it in much better ways.

Edit - or they just may be dicks who knows.

2nd edit - but now that you guys know, if you ever interact with them again and keep this at the top of the page (like I’m doing right now), then you’re the dick. Cause they don’t know better, but you do!

 

[justsomedude]

 

[Jacks]

 

[Lil Tuna]

I’ve met most of them. Good, kind people. It’s always the same 4-6, with Kevin being the constant and by far mor combative.

If I played armchair psych and took a wild guess, and I could be way off, I’d venture:

They’ve been part of this forum for years and years, this hobby for decades. They’ve made lifelong friends. They’ve chipped in organic ways, based on respect and relationships.

They have chips that make them perfectly happy, no question.

But it’s decades later. The market has long surpassed where they’d be interested as super active chippers. The chips that are “cool” have differed greatly from their tastes nowadays.

Some folks adapted, some folks are still relevant, etc. They are mostly not.

And now they deal with new members coming in like woah wtf how do people have all this how do they get it shits crazy woah woah woah! And…they’re in the same boat. Noones clamoring for their chips. Noones clamoring for their opinion.

And while they prob truly don’t care and don’t need to be like and don’t need to mentioned, it still sucks and is annoying to watch everything be…different.

It’s nice to be relevant. It’s nice to have your 20 or whatever years invested be respected. It’s hard to watch people here for 2 months or even 2 years complain, when in reality you have so much to complain about comparing today to your 20 years ago.

Idk, may be way off. But if not, they could def verbalize it in much better ways.

Edit - or they just may be dicks who knows.

2nd edit - but now that you guys know, if you ever interact with them again and keep this at the top of the page (like I’m doing right now), then you’re the dick. Cause they don’t know better, but you do!

 

[BigGrizz]

View attachment 1668347

Apparently I started it and I'm not even sure how! Lol

 

[GamingWithChips]

Apparently I started it and I'm not even sure how! Lol

I think you started the fire by asking a question (particularly about age) and then I threw gas on the flames by mentioning age as well. My best guess as to why this happened is that some are a little sensitive about their age. If they are reading this I will assure them that no one cares how old you are or not. We don’t judge or look at you any differently than any other person.

 

[Eriks]

Well, we need some fun pcf drama every once in a while to be able put up with the next new stream of ”what’s the best 500 chip breakdown?” or ”serve me the preferred exact cliff notes guide/links to what chips I should get” or ”the exact top value of whatever chip set I’m trying to sell off, since I can’t be bothered to do my own research”.

When I first found this place I had my wife convinced I was having an affair with the amount time I was spending on my phone reading pcf trying to learn and make informed chip decisions. Maybe that’s the age thing. You god damned tik tok kids not only have no money, you also have no sense of putting in the work that it takes.