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Where Have all the Chips Gone? (4 Viewers)
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MrCatPants
Full House
Vaults. People buy what they want, most don't sell unless there are extenuating circumstances like financial difficulty, death, or losing complete interest in the hobby. Even people who haven't hosted a game in years still often keep their collection locked up.
And used to be if you got rid of something good, you could buy something else good. Most good stuff is astronomical in price now, or not for sale.
And used to be if you got rid of something good, you could buy something else good. Most good stuff is astronomical in price now, or not for sale.
I also think the growth of PCF is a part of it. Velocity felt a lot higher when it was Aggie, WW, Gorbash, whoever pushing the chips around all the time and everyone had vaguely enough so chips kept moving and weren’t as hoarded.
Lots of new folks, many of them go straight to Tina but some roll up and go hard into the good stuff and that demand pulls chips out of circulation. Some folks like Pat are buying and selling all the time but many have a part of their collection that stays stable and a part that iterates and each new member who goes for the top end chips diminishes the transacting stock when they set up their stable core stuff.
Lots of new folks, many of them go straight to Tina but some roll up and go hard into the good stuff and that demand pulls chips out of circulation. Some folks like Pat are buying and selling all the time but many have a part of their collection that stays stable and a part that iterates and each new member who goes for the top end chips diminishes the transacting stock when they set up their stable core stuff.
DrStrange
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Hey! My vault is cracked, a little, sometimes. . . .
I sold a set eighteen months ago. Offered to sell a second one only to have the prospective buyer say "just kidding"
Well over 30,000 Paulson chips. I don't host more than 25 times a year anymore. Stuff is getting dusty back there.
Will say, if someone is hoping for a fire sale. It would be after my death -=- DrStrange
I sold a set eighteen months ago. Offered to sell a second one only to have the prospective buyer say "just kidding"
Well over 30,000 Paulson chips. I don't host more than 25 times a year anymore. Stuff is getting dusty back there.
Will say, if someone is hoping for a fire sale. It would be after my death -=- DrStrange
How old are you?
Johnblue
Flush
Jim either has been running cold, or maybe just not as willing to leave money on the table. That’s a huge factor.
IHe single handedly contributed in keeping prices reasonable, and supply flowing for as long as I can remember.
It’s Been a while @TheChipRoom !!!! You really are the patron saint of this hobby, forever grateful, most of my chips came directly from Jim.
IHe single handedly contributed in keeping prices reasonable, and supply flowing for as long as I can remember.
It’s Been a while @TheChipRoom !!!! You really are the patron saint of this hobby, forever grateful, most of my chips came directly from Jim.
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FordPickup92
Royal Flush
Sounds like I need to make a trip to Texas.....
DrStrange
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Ha ha ha . . . I am nearly old enough to be required to take required minimum distributions from my retirement accounts. But, my median life expectancy is ~20 years.
That is a long time for vultures to wait. Though now that I think of it, I have had a few sets for twenty years -=- DrStrange
That is a long time for vultures to wait. Though now that I think of it, I have had a few sets for twenty years -=- DrStrange
maxim_666666
Flush
I think the problem is that speculative price growth has pushed prices up on Chiproom as well. This, in turn, has slowed down sales overall. People are simply reluctant to sell what they have, because it’s not really clear what they can buy in return for the same money.
For example, in the past you could buy Paulson Classics for about $1.50 per chip in almost any online store, and that served as a kind of benchmark. Prices were transparent and easy to calculate. But now prices are set arbitrarily, and chips are often overpriced.
Back then I had a choice: Paulson fantasy sets or chips from the forums, Chiproom, ASM/CPC, CC. All of it was stable—both in terms of availability and pricing.
Now, aside from the occasional sales from Jim and Tina, there’s basically nothing. And what if I don’t like ceramics? What am I supposed to do? Sell my chips to buy what in return? Where? From whom?
The golden rule “buy clay—you’ll always be able to get your money back” no longer exists. And those who have chips have stopped selling them.
For example, in the past you could buy Paulson Classics for about $1.50 per chip in almost any online store, and that served as a kind of benchmark. Prices were transparent and easy to calculate. But now prices are set arbitrarily, and chips are often overpriced.
Back then I had a choice: Paulson fantasy sets or chips from the forums, Chiproom, ASM/CPC, CC. All of it was stable—both in terms of availability and pricing.
Now, aside from the occasional sales from Jim and Tina, there’s basically nothing. And what if I don’t like ceramics? What am I supposed to do? Sell my chips to buy what in return? Where? From whom?
The golden rule “buy clay—you’ll always be able to get your money back” no longer exists. And those who have chips have stopped selling them.
I feel like my vault is full so I try to sell off a few things here and there. I know I don't need to buy anymore chips but whenever someone talks about selling I'm like, "what you got?".
SMH.
SMH.
TripleRangeMerger
Pair
It often feels like I missed the golden age of this hobby. We need a new player in the lower-to-mid end home compression clay market.
FDLmold
Royal Flush
dibs outposts
Ok I tried to resist. What may be on the chopping block?
DrStrange
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While about half my sets have never been posted photographically, the rest can be seen in my media page here:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/media/users/drstrange.574/
Boat chips and other temptations not pictured
All the delicious food and a few chips are long gone -=- DrStrange
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/media/users/drstrange.574/
Boat chips and other temptations not pictured
All the delicious food and a few chips are long gone -=- DrStrange
elPadroni
Pair
Backup IN for some Outposts
AfterTheFact
4 of a Kind
I have been around since the Chiptalk days. When I first started, I would buy and sell all the time. Have bought and sold many premium sets, including TRK sets. I sold because it was easy to find new interesting sets.
As others have said, I rarely sell anymore because it’s too expensive to buy something back. Someone told me a few years ago no one cares about money here, trading is the new currency. So a lot of sets may be being traded behind the scenes.
As others have said, I rarely sell anymore because it’s too expensive to buy something back. Someone told me a few years ago no one cares about money here, trading is the new currency. So a lot of sets may be being traded behind the scenes.
davesilver88
Straight
There are still plenty of goodies on here that will sell / negotiate for reasonable prices. I don’t know this for fact, but I believe most of the members on PCF are as I’m describing. But yes, a lot of the initial comments on this thread seem to be correct where there are some just in it for the $, and quite frankly, that should be expected with any collectors hobby.
Are paulson group buys possible?... Didn't even know hahaI vote we do a group buy
- noob -
upNdown
Royal Flush
Group buys on PCF were traditionally not for profit ventures, open to the PCF public.
If somebody were able to place an order for Paulsons, available to PCFers at cost, there would be so much interest it would be difficult to manage.
Maybe possible, but improbable.
BigGrizz
Flush
Alright ya bastards, hear me out... Caribbean Star, Royal Star, Atlantic Star. Private forum anybody?
Jeevansluck
Royal Flush
lol….
I don’t know where I expressed fear in my post. More a stubborn stance.
You have badly misinterpreted my words if you think I’m afraid.
Moxie Mike
Full House
I haven't read every post in this thread so apologies for any redundancies.
I think it's a variety of factors many have already touched on... but one thing to consider is people are starting to age out of the hobby more or less.
For me personally, my collection is pretty much 'set'. I have 5 complete sets that I use at least semi-regularly, and very little excess that I don't use or need.
I accumulated these gradually over the course of 10+ years... more or less jockeying for position by trading, acquiring, selling, etc. as opportunities presented itself. It was fun and like a scavenger hunt - but I've reached the point where I'm pretty content with what I own and continued acquisition seems rather pointless.
When/if I ever stop hosting, I imagine they'll wind up in the hands of my youngest son, who's shown interest in poker.
Okku
4 of a Kind
I’ve seen a ton of chips over the years, both publicly and behind the scenes, and I can tell you there are way more racks out there than people think that never hit PCF at all.
I remember vividly around the start of COVID, Windwalker picked up 8 racks of Bourbon St $5s from my old job. Those racks were there for less than 24 hours before they were gone, shipped overnight to LA. I remember he had them listed for a pretty ridiculous number too, but to be fair he knew exactly how rare they were. After that, I have no idea where those racks ended up, and I’ve never really seen them surface again.
Same goes for things like Fitzgeralds $100 TRK racks. I remember seeing those in person, and they basically disappeared after that. Or even Claim Stake $5s, I remember packing multiple boxes of racks of those chips back in the day. You almost never see them come up, but I know there are a lot more out there than people think. The people who have them just don’t sell.
A lot of this stuff is moving privately. PMs, texts, pre-arranged deals. By the time something would hit the forum, the buyer is already lined up. There’s almost no point in listing it publicly just to have someone call dibs immediately and move it off-thread.
COVID was definitely a wild time. Prices shot up like crazy. You had guys like WW and a few other heavy hitters pushing the market, and things got inflated fast. I remember thinking there was no way certain racks were worth $1,500… and then they’d sell instantly. Now those same racks might be $700–800.
You see the same pattern everywhere. Gold, silver, even the stock market. Things run up, cool off, then stabilize and move again. The chip market right now feels like it’s just kind of sitting still.
Even the WSOP chips last year, most of that action happened privately. Numbers got thrown around, a few people figured out rough pricing, but most of it never really hit the open market.
At this point, I honestly think trading makes more sense than selling in a lot of cases. Once something leaves your hands, it can be really hard (or expensive) to get it back, especially with the rarer stuff.
For me personally, I’m more on the sidelines these days. I’m not moving nearly as many chips as I used to, and my collection is a lot smaller than it was a couple years ago. Life shifts priorities. But the chips are still out there, just tucked away more than before. Supply and demand is still the whole game.
One other thing I’ve noticed as a designer… I’ve had a huge increase in requests for Tina sets over the last 6 months compared to relabels or overlabels. That’s opened the door for a lot of people who want something that looks and feels close to the real thing without spending crazy money. That alone has to be impacting the market too.
I remember vividly around the start of COVID, Windwalker picked up 8 racks of Bourbon St $5s from my old job. Those racks were there for less than 24 hours before they were gone, shipped overnight to LA. I remember he had them listed for a pretty ridiculous number too, but to be fair he knew exactly how rare they were. After that, I have no idea where those racks ended up, and I’ve never really seen them surface again.
Same goes for things like Fitzgeralds $100 TRK racks. I remember seeing those in person, and they basically disappeared after that. Or even Claim Stake $5s, I remember packing multiple boxes of racks of those chips back in the day. You almost never see them come up, but I know there are a lot more out there than people think. The people who have them just don’t sell.
A lot of this stuff is moving privately. PMs, texts, pre-arranged deals. By the time something would hit the forum, the buyer is already lined up. There’s almost no point in listing it publicly just to have someone call dibs immediately and move it off-thread.
COVID was definitely a wild time. Prices shot up like crazy. You had guys like WW and a few other heavy hitters pushing the market, and things got inflated fast. I remember thinking there was no way certain racks were worth $1,500… and then they’d sell instantly. Now those same racks might be $700–800.
You see the same pattern everywhere. Gold, silver, even the stock market. Things run up, cool off, then stabilize and move again. The chip market right now feels like it’s just kind of sitting still.
Even the WSOP chips last year, most of that action happened privately. Numbers got thrown around, a few people figured out rough pricing, but most of it never really hit the open market.
At this point, I honestly think trading makes more sense than selling in a lot of cases. Once something leaves your hands, it can be really hard (or expensive) to get it back, especially with the rarer stuff.
For me personally, I’m more on the sidelines these days. I’m not moving nearly as many chips as I used to, and my collection is a lot smaller than it was a couple years ago. Life shifts priorities. But the chips are still out there, just tucked away more than before. Supply and demand is still the whole game.
One other thing I’ve noticed as a designer… I’ve had a huge increase in requests for Tina sets over the last 6 months compared to relabels or overlabels. That’s opened the door for a lot of people who want something that looks and feels close to the real thing without spending crazy money. That alone has to be impacting the market too.
ekricket
Royal Flush
I believe the term the younger generation uses is “you got lucky”, lol.
PCA secondary $5s are a great example of this. I forget the exact number of racks out there based on reports from the casino but it was at least 10x more than I thought existed based on what I’d seen since 2018.
Sure, appreciate the clarification. What would you call the strong aversion to losing money on poker chips that you bought and sold? I used fear in that context.
What would you say is driving you preferring to die with the chips rather than lose money? I see that trepidation as the fear of 'I bought at the wrong time or at the wrong price'.
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BarrieJ3
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I don't know how trading works, but sounds good on paper. We're talking 4-5 figure sets that don't really have a market price and even in doing that you may be saying good bye to chips forever. It might just be I don't dabble in grail sets and that's where trading full sets might make the most sense, e.g. unobtanium for unobtanium.
I don't have much, but well over half of my current chips I bought from chippers that planned on selling them and I said no please don't you'll never see them again I'll just give you market price so the chips can "stay in the family".
As I look at going down to a single small cash set, maybe two, I don't even actually know how/what/when/where to sell. No one's going to want their chips back at the prices I paid (for most not all), helping the hobby with good classified listings will just get flipped/wrecked, frors aren't real (I wouldn't even want fror anyways), auctions are wack after the last update. Even with stuff to list, it'll prob sit in the basement for a minute just because.
I don't have much, but well over half of my current chips I bought from chippers that planned on selling them and I said no please don't you'll never see them again I'll just give you market price so the chips can "stay in the family".
As I look at going down to a single small cash set, maybe two, I don't even actually know how/what/when/where to sell. No one's going to want their chips back at the prices I paid (for most not all), helping the hobby with good classified listings will just get flipped/wrecked, frors aren't real (I wouldn't even want fror anyways), auctions are wack after the last update. Even with stuff to list, it'll prob sit in the basement for a minute just because.
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