Cash game after tournament? (2 Viewers)

[BWoodkey]

I've been hosting a game for a couple years now. The regulars have liked the tournament style game I put on for the most part. I prefer it because it caps how much everyone can lose and the games typically wraps up at a decent time.

However, sometimes players bust out early and still want to be part of the action. Do any of y'all run cash games after your tournaments? If so, do you use the same chips or do you have a second set?

I've got a 10 seat table and assume players will shuffle to either end and play their respective games. Has anyone run into any logistical problems with two games being played at the same table? Or should I just send it and see how it goes?

 

[DrStrange]

I ran cash tables after my tournaments. Hated to see someone bust out the first 15 minutes after rebuys closed and have to leave,

Then I started having people showing up late and skipping the tournament to play cash.

Then the tournament would chop the prizes shortly after the cash game started.

Finally, we decided just to skip the tournament and stick to strictly cash.

Your milage may vary -=- DrStrange

 

[Knoxymoron]

We often do a cash game after our tournaments are over and we use a separate cash set for it. We actually moved the start time of our tournaments up two hours to accommodate for it. I have a second table they can play on but my guys will usually just wait around until the tournament is over before starting it up. I wouldn't recommend doing the cash game on the same table that the tournament is actively playing on as it can be very distracting for the tournament players. Not saying it can't be done, I just wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Labrat]

I prefer it because it caps how much everyone can lose and the games typically wraps up at a decent time.

I never quite understood this line of thinking. Nobody holds a gun to anybody's head in a cash game and makes them rebuy after being felted. But if you have people with self-control issues, drop the stakes in the cash game so multiple rebuys aren't an issue.

That being said, I'm on team "Mixed cash games are da shit" and once we got it going, everybody in my group is now on the same team. Tournaments were always our thing for over 10 years and now we haven't played one in 10 years.

 

[Jaxen]

I ran cash tables after my tournaments. Hated to see someone bust out the first 15 minutes after rebuys closed and have to leave,

Then I started having people showing up late and skipping the tournament to play cash.

Then the tournament would chop the prizes shortly after the cash game started.

Finally, we decided just to skip the tournament and stick to strictly cash.

Your milage may vary -=- DrStrange

I changed to what I'm doing Saturday ...

Tourney starts at 4pm.
2nd break (~6:30) is dinner break.
After I/we eat, I put out the cash game chips and those still around but out of the tourney can THEN play cash on the 2nd table.

 

[SteveEH]

You can't cap cash games, but you can set expectations for players to bring 3 buy ins for the night.

For example, ifyou're running a $100 buy in tourney, set your cash game stakes to .25/.25 100BB max, and your players will most likely be able to play all night.

 

[CdnBeerLover]

We tend to have a cash game start after the final table is formed in our 2-table tournaments. Some hosts have a completely separate set of chips (aka me)...some use the same set with lower denoms not used in the tournament for the most part. Up to the host. I prefer using a separate set or completely separate denoms.

If you are using opposite ends of the same table, I would recommend using different sets, especially if the table is essentially full. Sometimes chips get thrown around a bit and roll across the table. Easier to avoid issues if that happens if separate sets are used.

 

[danopoker]

Try cash game first, tournament second?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Try cash game first, tournament second?

Na, I strongly prefer chasing my losses until its breakfast time. Can't do that if I have a set end time.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I never quite understood this line of thinking. Nobody holds a gun to anybody's head in a cash game and makes them rebuy after being felted. But if you have people with self-control issues, drop the stakes in the cash game so multiple rebuys aren't an issue.

Gun to the head, no. Gun to the wallet though.

Tournament and cash game play are two different animals. Tournaments limit the amount you can bring in, creating a need for stack preservation. Cash games on the other hand usually allow unlimited rebuys and top-offs, which gives players with more dispensable income the ability to push players on a tighter budget out of hands.

To the OP:

We allow a cash game to follow the tournament once a year, and that's only because that one game is our only freezeout. The others are limited to a single rebuy. My thinking is that with an appropriate structure, you give players plenty of game time before the rebuy period ends. For our group, that's a roughly 2 hours, 20 minutes. That includes breaks, but not the pregame dinner which extends it +1.5 hours.

Just under 4 hours is a full evening for friends.

Yes, sometimes people get felted out of their rebuy before that 2:20 mark, but it is uncommon. 3.7% of players have lost their rebuy before the 2nd break (the end of our rebuy period). Only 0.2% of players lost their 2nd rebuy in the first hour, so flukes do happen. However, you can pay $25 to see a movie Saturday night, and it could also suck.

If you are felted early, you can go home, but you are also welcome to deal. You are still hanging out with friends, which is the point.

In short, if you want to run a cash game, run a cash game. If you want to run a tournament, run the tournament well enough that it accounts for the evening.

...but for dear lord, use separate chips. You don't want 1 rouge chip that was lost on the floor, behind a cupholder, or unscrupulously detoured to find it's way into the cash game.

 

[Highli99]

I ran cash tables after my tournaments. Hated to see someone bust out the first 15 minutes after rebuys closed and have to leave,

Then I started having people showing up late and skipping the tournament to play cash.

Then the tournament would chop the prizes shortly after the cash game started.

Finally, we decided just to skip the tournament and stick to strictly cash.

Your milage may vary -=- DrStrange

This is the way

 

[Old State]

People that prefer small buying tournament often do because they never played cash and are afraid of it.

We started as a cash game group then added larger 30-35 person tournaments during the poker boom 7-8 times a year. Since we had four tables (three portable) we always had another table for people start a cash game. We also always had another chip set for it.

Our tournaments were very professionally run with large payouts and a player of the year structure. They were very popular and people looked forward to them.

That said, the cash games were always WAYYYYYY more popular!! Often two tables going late into the night

My suggestion is that you host a small .25/.50 or even .25/.25 cash game with a $50 max buyin and let them dig their toes. I converted a ton of people to cash like that. My buddy hosted a monthly $30 single table tournament game. One time I invited everyone to my place for a $.25/.50 cash game. They all converted to cash and my buddy never ran anymore tournaments style games

When we were younger my group played low limit casino stakes between the tournament dates….$2/4 or 3/6 limit at first and then $1/2 NL when that started in AC. This game was almost weekly until we all got married and had kids. After six year poker pause I started hosting again at lower stakes. I’m currently at at $1/1 $120 max buyin now and I’m filling the table every month. I found this to be the perfect level for a regular game

Move to cash. Cash is king for poker!

 

[Labrat]

Gun to the head, no. Gun to the wallet though.

Not if you're playing stakes that everybody is comfortable with. If you have people around a table willing to lose $50-$100 in a tournament (and odds are they will since there are usually only 3 payouts), and then after getting knocked out take more money to the following cash game, then what's the difference between that and just running a $50 (or whatever fits the group) buy-in cash game and buying in twice or even three times?

Or you could (GASP!) play limit.

I understand groups are different, but 4-5 hours of nothing but hold'em just bores the crap out of me.

 

[Old State]

Gun to the head, no. Gun to the wallet though.

I also disagree with this for the same reasons @Labrat mentioned. I have exactly one player who comes maybe 2x a year with one buyin. Everyone else brings at least three.

What people quickly realize with cash over tournament is that you statistically have a better change at winning money than a tournament. If you have single table tournament only 2-3 people walk away with anything. If you are a decent poker player, with cash, you will win more than you lose. This is why so many I’ve introduced to cash end up heavily preferring it.…even the guys who aren’t great players. They are always luck once in a while and that’s enough to keep them coming back

Cash allows people to come and go as they please. Even leave and come back.

 

[Poker Zombie]

playing stakes that everybody is comfortable with.

This is the difference between a single table game with a tight group of friends and a multi-table game that includes friends of friends, who become a looser group of friends.

The tight group probably have equal incomes, while broader groups are likely from different aspects of life. My group includes parents, grand parents, and children. The age gap from youngest to oldest is 56 years. I assure you the youngest, while able to scrape together the buy-in to play once or twice a year is not going to enjoy the table as much as the player who can burn through 5 buy-ins and still make the next game.

Cash allows people to come and go as they please. Even leave and come back.

Don't get me wrong, I also host cash games. I am fully aware of the stats as they appear in our group, which is losing players almost always lose money, and when the win it is usually less than a buy-in. This is even more-so in pure limit games (which I also enjoy).

I'm not trying to get into the weeds of "which is better", because they are both different, and I enjoy both. However, the OP was discussing the question of hosting a cash game that follows the tournament, which inevitably always leads to some cash game player crying "just play cash". I'm starting to think a wavering attention span is a congenital defect of cash game players.

...which is why cash game players would think "come and go as you please... and come back" is a positive feature.

To the OP's question, I would not encourage cash to follow the tournament, unless your group consists of poker players more driven by the profit of poker than the camaraderie.

 

[detroitdad]

Were old. We play cash pre-tourney!

 

[MikesDad]

Cash game after a tourney table frees up
Separate table, separate chips
Separate cash box

 

[Labrat]

However, the OP was discussing the question of hosting a cash game that follows the tournament, which inevitably always leads to some cash game player crying "just play cash".

Well, first off, I was hardly "crying" about "just play cash," so...

This is the difference between a single table game with a tight group of friends and a multi-table game that includes friends of friends, who become a looser group of friends.

Correct. And he stated it was a single table, 10 player tournament and it bothered him that people can get felted and have nothing to do other than go home early. That sounds like a group of friends to me and, unfortunately, that's the nature of a tournament. If you want to maximize the amount of people who can play the entire night, then a micro-stakes cash game is the answer, if not a limit game.

Trying to piece together a cash game out of a single-table tournament is a pain in the ass because you need half the players to bust out in order to have a cash game in the first place. Not many are going to be willing to wait around for that to happen.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I agree limit keeps everybody in for the night, but limit plays best on a dedicated chipset.

That said, my recorded stats strongly indicate that most players get a full night is a well structured tournament. The question may not be "should cash follow", rather "should my structure be fixed". Even that depends on how long is long enough to start sending people home (or to the dealer's chair).

I cannot deny the idea that others put out there, of cash first then tournament - but that is going to depend a ton on how long you want to play into the night. For me, 7p-midnight is a full night of poker. YMMV

 

[Old State]

I agree limit keeps everybody in for the night, but limit plays best on a dedicated chipset.

I loved limit poker. We played limit stud then holdem when the boom happened …but before the casinos had NL cash. Living an hour and a half from AC everybody used that as the measuring stick and when they offered no limit holdem, everybody wanted to play that. I haven’t gotten anybody interested in playing a limit game since 2005.

As for the chips… You can play limit with a normal set. On this forum, with all the chip nerds, yes, they like certain sets for limit Poker. I used my same set of ASM chips I had for limit for no limit. I gave out chip stacks the same as the casinos did..

As for your comment about the inevitable recommendation to just play cash, well that’s in the context of the OPs original problem… People leaving early. For me I find single table tournaments very annoying. I play in one down the street that’s horribly run, but I do it to socialize with the neighbors. The game itself is awful. Interestingly, the guy who runs it has been asking players if they wanna play small stakes, cash.

Personally unless there’s at least 20 people I have no interest in a tournament and I prefer 30 to 40 .

 

[ashetoother]

For me, it’s about giving everyone a good time. Not everyone wants the night to end when the tournament does for them, so we offer a cash game.

Second set is mandatory. Buy more chips!

Logistical problems? Not for me, but I’ve always had someone who could help take the lead if needed.

 

[Poker Zombie]

• I loved limit poker. We played limit stud then holdem when the boom happened …but before the casinos had NL cash. Living an hour and a half from AC everybody used that as the measuring stick and when they offered no limit holdem, everybody wanted to play that. I haven’t gotten anybody interested in playing a limit game since 2005.

As for the chips… You can play limit with a normal set. On this forum, with all the chip nerds, yes, they like certain sets for limit Poker. I used my same set of ASM chips I had for limit for no limit. I gave out chip stacks the same as the casinos did..

As for your comment about the inevitable recommendation to just play cash, well that’s in the context of the OPs original problem… People leaving early. For me I find single table tournaments very annoying. I play in one down the street that’s horribly run, but I do it to socialize with the neighbors. The game itself is awful. Interestingly, the guy who runs it has been asking players if they wanna play small stakes, cash.

Personally unless there’s at least 20 people I have no interest in a tournament and I prefer 30 to 40 .

We've discussed Limit in previous threads as well. I'm one of the few that enjoy limit. I agree that you can get by with a regular cash set, but it is monumentally better with at least 3-5 barrels of the "betting" chips per player to avoid constant change making. The extra chips are less necessary if your players can fold pre, but circus games rarely see pre-folds, and splashy/newer players typically have an extremely high vpip in limit hold'em.

The OP has 2 problems though. "Wrapping up at a reasonable time" and "players bust out early". To truly address this problem, we need info like...

• How many hours is "a reasonable time"
• How early is early
• Are rebuys permitted
• What is the blind structure
• What is the chipset breakdown
• Is buying a 2nd set palateable
• Is there a possibility of adding or converting another table

 

[ekricket]

10 player tournament and it bothered him that people can get felted and have nothing to do other than go home early and he can’t take even more of their money before they leave

FYP