Update Poker RFID Bundle / Health Issues (1 Viewer)

[Santa123]

Yes. Because the buyer has nothing to do with it.
If I sell something, it's my obligation to get that something to the buyer. So I contract with a company (USPS for example) to deliver it to the buyer. I pay USPS. I decide whether or not to buy insurance. I get the receipt from USPS. This transaction is only between me and USPS and none of this has anything to do with the buyer. That's why I disagree with the people who say "once I drop it off at the post office, it's out of my hands."

Personally I've always thought that as long as all good faith efforts have been made, PCFers should share the loss when a transaction goes south. But that's only my opinion because we're a community of hobbyists, and not merchants in a marketplace. Because that's how the hobby seemed to operate when I got involved. Now that we've evolved into more of a marketplace and less of a community, I don't know.

"In both the USA and most European countries, a private sale usually shifts the risk of loss to the buyer once the seller hands the item to the shipping carrier, even if the shipment is uninsured, unless the parties agreed otherwise. In the USA, this follows the Uniform Commercial Code, where the risk typically passes to the buyer upon shipment. In Europe (e.g., Germany), the same principle applies to private sales, while consumer purchases from a business are different: there, the seller bears the risk until the goods are delivered and must refund or replace lost items." - source ChatGPT ;-)

I think the legal framework should always be the starting point, and in the USA as well as in European countries it is essentially the same. In private sales, the risk lies with the buyer. Therefore, I believe buyers should always ask about the option of insured shipping. Of course, the seller, as the person who commissioned the shipment, is obliged in case of loss to handle all necessary communication with the shipping service and to pass on any compensation to the buyer.

 

[upNdown]

"In both the USA and most European countries, a private sale usually shifts the risk of loss to the buyer once the seller hands the item to the shipping carrier, even if the shipment is uninsured, unless the parties agreed otherwise. In the USA, this follows the Uniform Commercial Code, where the risk typically passes to the buyer upon shipment. In Europe (e.g., Germany), the same principle applies to private sales, while consumer purchases from a business are different: there, the seller bears the risk until the goods are delivered and must refund or replace lost items." - source ChatGPT ;-)

I think the legal framework should always be the starting point, and in the USA as well as in European countries it is essentially the same. In private sales, the risk lies with the buyer. Therefore, I believe buyers should always ask about the option of insured shipping. Of course, the seller, as the person who commissioned the shipment, is obliged in case of loss to handle all necessary communication with the shipping service and to pass on any compensation to the buyer.

That’s news to me, but I’ll look into it.

 

[frugal]

I always thought the seller should be responsible for everything lol. Not the buyer. But that’s my retail background. And this is more of a hobby market.

That's what I'm used to as a consumer. Good retailers will refund you if something happens. I've had a few Amazon packages get lost and I don't even have to talk to support to get a refund anymore, I can just click some buttons and they automatically issue a refund. The bad retailers might not want to issue a refund but they'll be forced to refund in the face of a chargeback, so it doesn't really matter if the retailer is good or bad.

As a newbie here, I wouldn't expect that just based on how people phrase things here, e.g., PayPalFF unless buyer wants to pay for insurance. I generally expect that I'll eat the loss as the buyer if a package is lost and I'm not paying extra for insurance. I've done 5 transactions here with no problems so far, so I'm not worried about it, that's just my expectation if it happens.

That said, lost packages are extremely rare. About 1 in 1,000 USPS Ground & Priority Mail packages are lost or stolen. And if you ship FedEx overnight or USPS Express, then it's even far better odds than that.

Am I just surrounded by unlucky people or something? When I lived in the US, I got other people's mail and packages pretty frequently. It definitely happened more than 10 times, though it probably wasn't more than 100 (if you add letters then it's probably close to 100). These packages were usually delivered into the wrong building, with gated access, so the correct recipient has no way to pick up the package even if they know where it is, which they generally wouldn't. The issue was usually something like the mail carrier misreading digits, delivering to 123 when it should have been 231 or something like that. I'd get a notice on or in my mailbox to pick up a package, but the name and address would be wrong. As a receiver, Amazon probably loses about 1 in 500 packages of mine, which seems like a better rate than I have via other carriers. If you're going to say 1 in 1000 packages were reported as missing or stolen, I could believe that, but I never reported USPS stuff or asked a vendor to report after the first few times because they never fixed it, so what's the point? With the good retailers, they all just issue a refund immediately and the tracking info doesn't show any kind of investigation, so I don't think they generally bother to report.

Canada is so much worse than the US it's not even worth mentioning. Lens rentals (for camera lenses, costs can easily be $5k+) stopped shipping to Canada because of how many packages got lost or stolen. They tried multiple options before stopping shipment to Canada but they got hit with theft rings and lost packages too often and gave up on Canada.

 

[BPTDirector]

Making this public was a mistake, this is between two people, no reason to open it to ten thousand opinions.

 

[Josh Kifer]

no reason to open it to thirty seven people with ten thousand opinions...

FYP.