Update Poker RFID Bundle / Health Issues (1 Viewer)

[SoupHQ]

So, here I am again at last.
Get ready for a long text, but I want to clear up a few things here. @twocannons , you can skip to the end if you want, where I talk about our package.

Let's start with this - I'm still not a scammer.

Here's a chronological breakdown of what you already know:
- I sold RFID hardware to twocannons for $1,200.
- I packed everything up, dropped it off at DHL, and paid $50 for shipping.
- Then the package came back to me.
- I dropped off the package again, and it came back to me.
- Apparently, shipping to America is a bit difficult at the moment, so I adjusted the shipping details because the internet recommended it.
- Then the shipping history said that the package had been returned to me --> but it wasn't. It wasn't in the shed, it wasn't at the neighbor's, there was no package to be found.
- I contacted DHL and... I ended up in the hospital with a pulmonary embolism (and renal vein thrombosis).
- After a lot of diagnostics and treatment, I was finally back home and able to deal with DHL and the package again.

Now for what happened next:
For a few days, I felt okay. I was no longer in pain and could slowly breathe better again, but I was still very weak. However, instead of getting better, I felt weaker and weaker. I remember getting chills and a high fever, and my headaches were getting worse and worse. The next thing I know, I came to in the hospital.
I had had a stroke. The right side of my body was paralyzed and I couldn't speak. On the positive side, I am slowly regaining my mobility, my fine motor skills are improving a little every day, and I am slowly regaining my speech to the point where most people can understand me.

We now know that I have a kidney disease. Antibodies against my own kidneys make them more permeable to important proteins. Among other things, I have lost antithrombin III, which normally prevents the blood from clotting. Because I lost large amounts of it, I developed small blood clots everywhere (in my lungs, renal vein, and even in my head).

What happens next in terms of my health:
After early rehabilitation, I am now in follow-up rehabilitation for the next few weeks. Currently, I still have slight hemiplegia, aphasia, am extremely exhausted, have poor fine motor skills (my wife types while I speak), and am in a wheelchair. But everything is getting better and better.

Now for the most important part (besides the fact that I survived and can now receive targeted therapy):

The delivery driver says he left the package in the shed, but couldn't provide a photo or proof of delivery. DHL then bears the burden of proof, but couldn't prove it – so the insurance sum applies, which unfortunately is only $500 + shipping costs (in this case, shipping was paid twice), meaning DHL reimbursed $600. As suggested in the last thread, I would also suggest that we split the total amount – @twocannons will receive the $600 from DHL from me and we will both record a $600 “loss.”

To be honest, I can't offer more than that because I have been unable to work for several months and, as a self-employed person, I am not earning any money.

@twocannons , please feel free to write to me privately to let me know if we can consider this matter closed. I am incredibly sorry about how everything turned out, but the mere fact that I tried to send the package three times should prove that I am not a scammer. That doesn't make the situation any better for you, but ultimately, I think I'm the one who has been hit harder overall ^^





To the rest of the forum - some of you may no longer trust me or have doubts about my honesty, which I can understand. But I didn't choose any of this. I would like to continue to be part of this forum.


//Edit:
You can't imagine how good it feels to finally have said something about it, or to be able to say something. It's all very stressful.

 

[Bacon Dad]

Sorry for the health issues. Hope it works out for you as your health should be your biggest concern right now.

Your information brings up some interesting questions that deal with insurance and terms of a sale.
Everyone knows international shipping right now is questionable. I wonder if the questions below ever gets discussed in an international transaction.

• Why didn't the insurance cover the $1200 plus shipping cost?
• Who set up the insurance for the shipment?
• Did everyone agree to how it was being insured?
• Was it discussed who is responsible for the lost item if the package goes missing?

It is terrible timing with your health and shipping issue. But if I were the buyer, I would be wondering why I would be financially responsible for seeing that package gets into the DHL's hands for shipping. I understand that you gave it to DHL and they returned it to you; you modified it and gave it back to DHL again. But DHL says they no longer have it and it was never moving in their system. It would look a lot different if the package was handed to DHL and they show it left their facility and it disappears in their system. At that point insurance should cover it and the buyer/seller split the insurance for their loss.

I'm not saying you still have the items; I believe that you don't. But someone could have stolen the item when it was returned to you the second time but were out with the health issues. Why would that be the buyer's responsibility?

This is a terrible set of circumstances for all of those involved. But maybe the rest of us can learn something from this.

 

[JMC9389]

I'm very sorry to hear of your health issues. I hope thr therapies start to work and get you back on the mend.

This is a prime example as to why I've started to include insurance for the full amount paid in my sales or highly recommend the buyer do so.

I pack well. Very well now after I've made some missteps along the way (don't use LFRB's if shipping via USPS if you don't have to) that resulted in damaged boxes but thankfully resulted in all contents arriving in the shape it was shipped in.

If contents of a box I ship out go missing or are damaged in transit, insurance will make me whole. I make sure to take photos of the contents of each box I send out, especially photos of the contents in said box.

That said, if the buyer doesn't want to pay the extra $20 to $80 (depending on value) for insurance on a four figure purchase, that's on them. I'll take every reasonable precaution and pack the box to do my best to assure nothing gets damaged, but in the event of loss, it's not really fair for me to eat the entire cost.

Insurance is for both my interest and the buyer's interest. I can refund them if something goes amiss and I'm at least not out the money even if I'm out the chips.

I will never do another sale again without insurance being paid on the package unless it's for a small amount that I'm ok with swallowing the cost on.

 

[Bacon Dad]

I'm very sorry to hear of your health issues. I hope thr therapies start to work and get you back on the mend.

This is a prime example as to why I've started to include insurance for the full amount paid in my sales or highly recommend the buyer do so.

I pack well. Very well now after I've made some missteps along the way (don't use LFRB's if shipping via USPS if you don't have to) that resulted in damaged boxes but thankfully resulted in all contents arriving in the shape it was shipped in.

If contents of a box I ship out go missing or are damaged in transit, insurance will make me whole. I make sure to take photos of the contents of each box I send out, especially photos of the contents in said box.

That said, if the buyer doesn't want to pay the extra $20 to $80 (depending on value) for insurance on a four figure purchase, that's on them. I'll take every reasonable precaution and pack the box to do my best to assure nothing gets damaged, but in the event of loss, it's not really fair for me to eat the entire cost.

Insurance is for both my interest and the buyer's interest. I can refund them if something goes amiss and I'm at least not out the money even if I'm out the chips.

I will never do another sale again without insurance being paid on the package unless it's for a small amount that I'm ok with swallowing the cost on.

Are the LFRBs not a sturdy box you can trust?

If you sell an item for $1200, do you insure it for $1200? My understanding of how postal insurance may not be correct because I don't see how you can become "whole" if your shipped item goes missing.

If I buy your chips for $1200 and I pay for the insurance to cover the $1200, I would think that I (the buyer) gets the $1200 if the package goes missing. But you as the seller are out $1200 worth of chips. So do you insure it for $2400 and cover half the cost of the insurance and buyer pays the rest for his half?

 

[twocannons]

1200+600 is 1800. How is sending me $600 a loss on your end?

 

[ekricket]

If I buy your chips for $1200 and I pay for the insurance to cover the $1200, I would think that I (the buyer) gets the $1200 if the package goes missing. But you as the seller are out $1200 worth of chips.

You as the seller already have the PayPal funds -$1200 -sent to you by the buyer
Delivery doesn’t happen, so you collect the $1200 from usps - now you have $2400.
You refund the buyers $1200.
Now the seller has $1200 and the buyer has his $1200 and the delivery service keeps the chips.

 

[JMC9389]

Are the LFRBs not a sturdy box you can trust?

If you sell an item for $1200, do you insure it for $1200? My understanding of how postal insurance may not be correct because I don't see how you can become "whole" if your shipped item goes missing.

If I buy your chips for $1200 and I pay for the insurance to cover the $1200, I would think that I (the buyer) gets the $1200 if the package goes missing. But you as the seller are out $1200 worth of chips. So do you insure it for $2400 and cover half the cost of the insurance and buyer pays the rest for his half?

No.

If a package goes missing, it's on the shipper (seller) to initiate the lost mail claim. If the package cannot be recovered, insurance kicks in and USPS pays the claim. One can insure a box for up to $5000. From what I can gather, there is a good success rate for claims getting paid out as long as all parties keep records and receipts of the amount paid in the transaction.

But yes, say I sold a rack of chips for $800. I insure for the full $800 amount so I'm mad whole if there are any hijinks. I would then make the buyer who is out the chips whole. No chips, but at least everyone would be made whole.

ETA: any time I've had a problem with a box being damaged in transit, it had been a LFRB. It's something to do with how they get organized and sorted by the machines that leaves them more susceptible to damage.

 

[BarrieJ3]

PCF desperately needs an agreed upon standard when nothing else is shared/planned/agreed. Eg, “buyer and seller will split any loss incurred evenly unless otherwise stated”.

 

[SoupHQ]

1200+600 is 1800. How is sending me $600 a loss on your end?

Holy sht, you´re right
Math has never been my strong suit, but that has nothing to do with the stroke.

So I owe you $900. Ooph, that makes things a little tougher, but fair point. (I need to think for a moment to see if that's correct.)


//Edit:
I'll respond to everyone else later.

 

[upNdown]

If a package goes missing, it's on the shipper (seller) to initiate the lost mail claim.

Yes. Because the buyer has nothing to do with it.
If I sell something, it's my obligation to get that something to the buyer. So I contract with a company (USPS for example) to deliver it to the buyer. I pay USPS. I decide whether or not to buy insurance. I get the receipt from USPS. This transaction is only between me and USPS and none of this has anything to do with the buyer. That's why I disagree with the people who say "once I drop it off at the post office, it's out of my hands."

Personally I've always thought that as long as all good faith efforts have been made, PCFers should share the loss when a transaction goes south. But that's only my opinion because we're a community of hobbyists, and not merchants in a marketplace. Because that's how the hobby seemed to operate when I got involved. Now that we've evolved into more of a marketplace and less of a community, I don't know.

 

[Bacon Dad]

@ekricket and @JMC9389
Thanks for laying that out. Makes perfect sense now.
Good thing I'm an engineer and not an accountant!

 

[JMC9389]

Yes. Because the buyer has nothing to do with it.
If I sell something, it's my obligation to get that something to the buyer. So I contract with a company (USPS for example) to deliver it to the buyer. I pay USPS. I decide whether or not to buy insurance. I get the receipt from USPS. This transaction is only between me and USPS and none of this has anything to do with the buyer. That's why I disagree with the people who say "once I drop it off at the post office, it's out of my hands."

Personally I've always thought that as long as all good faith efforts have been made, PCFers should share the loss when a transaction goes south. But that's only my opinion because we're a community of hobbyists, and not merchants in a marketplace. Because that's how the hobby seemed to operate when I got involved. Now that we've evolved into more of a marketplace and less of a community, I don't know.

Correct.

I'm starting to insist on insurance as a seller because it protects me. I'm going to do the right thing and refund the buyer if what I sell them is lost or damaged in transit. I don't want to be out $4,000 because I can't afford to shell that out in the event that I'm selling chips to buy chips.

I went through this a few weeks back. Was selling chips to buy chips. I waited until each box I sent out arrived without incident before paying the seller of what I was buying. Everyone wins.

 

[iLogik]

I just had a package I sent get really damaged during transport and a rack went missing, I thought that since the package is with the buyer, the claim should be initiated with them for better pics of the box. But based on everyone’s feedback, that was wrong and it should’ve been me who initiated it, correct?

 

[JMC9389]

I just had a package I sent get really damaged during transport and a rack went missing, I thought that since the package is with the buyer, the claim should be initiated with them for better pics of the box. But based on everyone’s feedback, that was wrong and it should’ve been me who initiated it, correct?

Yes.

 

[upNdown]

Correct.

I'm starting to insist on insurance as a seller because it protects me. I'm going to do the right thing and refund the buyer if what I sell them is lost or damaged in transit. I don't want to be out $4,000 because I can't afford to shell that out in the event that I'm selling chips to buy chips.

I went through this a few weeks back. Was selling chips to buy chips. I waited until each box I sent out arrived without incident before paying the seller of what I was buying. Everyone wins.

Tangent here, but I recently read a post on the town facebook page, complaining that their neighbor stole their package. What actually happened was that the package was incorrectly delivered to the neighbor's house and the neighbor was unresponsive. All the town geniuses were screaming that she should call the police and/or that she needs to call FedEx to make them make it right. No no no! This is a problem between you and whomever shipped that package.

 

[doublebooyah85]

I always thought the seller should be responsible for everything lol. Not the buyer. But that’s my retail background. And this is more of a hobby market.

 

[JMC9389]

Tangent here, but I recently read a post on the town facebook page, complaining that their neighbor stole their package. What actually happened was that the package was incorrectly delivered to the neighbor's house and the neighbor was unresponsive. All the town geniuses were screaming that she should call the police and/or that she needs to call FedEx to make them make it right. No no no! This is a problem between you and whomever shipped that package.

I actually had that happen to a chip package.

The post office employee at my home post office typed the wrong address into the system when printing the shipping label at the counter. Typed 117 instead of 111 under the address.

I see the package is delivered when it was supposed to and figured everything was ok. Later that week, I got a panicked PM from the buyer saying that the package was shown as delivered but didn't show up at their doorstep.

I went to my post office and they verified the address they typed into the system when I gave them the tracking number. I realized the mistake and asked the buyer to walk to their neighbor's house.

Sure enough, even three days after the package was delivered, it was there sitting on the neighbor's porch untouched.

 

[iLogik]

Thanks, I’ll make sure I follow up on my end

 

[quintooo]

personally I would refund buyer full amount $1200 especially because insurance paid out; you are out only 600. The 600 can be recovered by you if you find the package, it's not like the buyer can find the package lol.

whose idea was it to insure only half the amount?

 

[BarrieJ3]

I always did the 50/50 split, but figured if something ever occurred I’d feel bad and likely help more on top.

But now:

• I’ve shipped well over 1k packages and nothings ever not made it or been damaged.
• We see more and more issues/fights/scams by well known, established chippers.
• There is no longer any regulation, social backlash, or use of feedback tool in those exchanges.

In a public classified, I have no reason to believe who I engage with do so in good faith, and no reason to believe if they don’t they’ll be held accountable.

It only makes sense now as a seller with a public listing to put 100%/majority of losses on buyer and suggesting insurance (and insuring your purchases).

 

[ef28]

I had my first "lost" package with USPS this past month. I was the seller and did not get additional insurance. I refunded the buyer 100% of the cost. I took a loss of less than $100 since USPS priority insurance only covers up to $100. I sent out 2 packages at the same time out of the same Post office but with my luck the more expensive barrel of chips got lost. Lesson learned, always insure the package. I did initiate a missing a search for missing package with USPS but I'm not holding my breath that they'll find anything.

 

[upNdown]

It only makes sense now as a seller with a public listing to put 100%/majority of losses on buyer and suggesting insurance (and insuring your purchases).

There’s a guy who used to post here, @RainmanTrail who first opened my eyes to the ways eBay buyers can screw sellers. His solution was to stop selling on eBay. So I’d argue that you should either stop selling, or find a safer way to do it, because I argue that the buyer takes the loss philosophy makes no logical or legal sense.

But the easy bottom line for me is that if the seller says the buyer is responsible, I’m not buying.

 

[SoupHQ]

I have sent countless packages, some of which were much more expensive than this one (poker chips, equipment, Magic cards, etc.) – but always within Europe, and I never had any problems. I almost always send packages with tracking and up to $500 insurance (because that's usually all it is). And I didn't know that you could insure it for a higher amount. In hindsight, of course, it was careless and stupid—why shouldn't you be able to insure it for a higher amount?

I was obviously a little too naive because I never thought that anything would go wrong.

Of course, I understand that @twocannons shouldn't have to suffer for my mistakes, but, as unpleasant as it is, I just can't afford it right now. I set aside the $600 so that I can pay it out now, and the additional $300 is really hurting me right now, and I don't know where to get it from.
This may sound like something out of a bad movie, but my wife has to take care of our two children because I can't do it right now, and she only earns a fraction of her full-time salary because she works 5 hours twice a week and my mother-in-law helps us with the children during that time.

So here's my offer: I'll transfer $600 to @twocannons for now and the remaining $300 when my financial situation improves or I can borrow the money somewhere. However, I can't say at this point when that will be. Right now, I have to count every penny to get us through the month.

That's all I can afford at the moment.

 

[BarrieJ3]

There’s a guy who used to post here, @RainmanTrail who first opened my eyes to the ways eBay buyers can screw sellers. His solution was to stop selling on eBay. So I’d argue that you should either stop selling, or find a safer way to do it, because I argue that the buyer takes the loss philosophy makes no logical or legal sense.

But the easy bottom line for me is that if the seller says the buyer is responsible, I’m not buying.

In this pretend example, I’m not worried about losing a small % of potential buyers in exchange for peace of mind. You and others not being a buyer isn’t really a detriment, as it likely is also cutting out those who otherwise would engage with poor intentions.

In the real world I can’t think of much/any high $ sets I could list, and if I did so publicly they def wouldn’t be dibs.

Personally I prefer in person pickups. Not to avoid a scam, but just because of how shitty it would be to say lose $5k each with a friend

I couldn’t imagine, I’d feel so bad.

 

[Bacon Dad]

Correct.

I'm starting to insist on insurance as a seller because it protects me. I'm going to do the right thing and refund the buyer if what I sell them is lost or damaged in transit. I don't want to be out $4,000 because I can't afford to shell that out in the event that I'm selling chips to buy chips.

I went through this a few weeks back. Was selling chips to buy chips. I waited until each box I sent out arrived without incident before paying the seller of what I was buying. Everyone wins.

If you are insisting insurance be purchased, are you splitting that upfront cost with the buyer?

That would be a hard pill to swallow if the buyer doesn't want to pay for any portion of insurance and the package gets lost/damaged, yet you refund the buyer if it happens. I guess that's where splitting the loss makes sense if insurance is not in play.

 

[JMC9389]

If you are insisting insurance be purchased, are you splitting that upfront cost with the buyer?

That would be a hard pill to swallow if the buyer doesn't want to pay for any portion of insurance and the package gets lost/damaged, yet you refund the buyer if it happens. I guess that's where splitting the loss makes sense if insurance is not in play.

I'm baking it into the purchase price or covering it myself.

For a $600 rack, it's like $10 to insure that amount. If I want the buyer to cover that, I'll list the rack for $620 shipped to cover my shipping and insurance costs. At the end of the day, when I'm breaking even on the sale after using the chips for a few games, I consider paying shipping and insurance the usage fee and am happy to pay it.

I'd be a lot more curmongeonly if I'm taking a massive loss on the chips and insist the buyer cover at least some of the cost or in situations where it's a $4000 or $5000 transaction and insurance costs over $100.

 

[RainmanTrail]

If you want to ship collectibles in excess of $1000 and have it truly be covered, then you either need to sign up for a collectibles insurance policy with a company like www.collectinsure.com or you need to ship it via USPS register mail. All other options for buying insurance through either USPS, FedEx, or UPS have fine print that nobody reads which limits their exposure on collectibles to a maximum payout of $1000, even though they will gladly allow you to insure the package for way more than that and will let you pay for it.

That said, lost packages are extremely rare. About 1 in 1,000 USPS Ground & Priority Mail packages are lost or stolen. And if you ship FedEx overnight or USPS Express, then it's even far better odds than that. So ship at your own risk. But the seller bares the legal responsibility to ensure the package gets delivered. Once there is proof of delivery, that burden shifts to the buyer because the seller isn't responsible if someone steals your package from your house.

 

[chippitydoodah]

If you want to ship collectibles in excess of $1000 and have it truly be covered, then you either need to sign up for a collectibles insurance policy with a company like www.collectinsure.com or you need to ship it via USPS register mail. All other options for buying insurance through either USPS, FedEx, or UPS have fine print that nobody reads which limits their exposure on collectibles to a maximum payout of $1000, even though they will gladly allow you to insure the package for way more than that and will let you pay for it.

That said, lost packages are extremely rare. About 1 in 1,000 USPS Ground & Priority Mail packages are lost or stolen. And if you ship FedEx overnight or USPS Express, then it's even far better odds than that. So ship at your own risk. But the seller bares the legal responsibility to ensure the package gets delivered. Once there is proof of delivery, that burden shifts to the buyer because the seller isn't responsible if someone steals your package from your house.

1 in 1000 is extremely rare? In my book that's pretty damn frequent.

 

[GodStillBlesses]

Interesting. 99% of the time I insure every package for full value. PayPal…… when using goods and services covers the full value….. maybe that charge would be cheaper….. never really thought about that…..

 

[JMC9389]

1 in 1000 is extremely rare? In my book that's pretty damn frequent.