Cash Game Ending a cash game with a single winner (1 Viewer)

[sbeckett]

Recently, I’ve started hosting a $1/$2 game of NLH for a group of 8-10 friends. Most of us are complete beginners who have played several times but never deep dived into rules, strategy, or the math behind the game. We play a cash game because everyone needs to leave at different times, the game is very casual, the stakes are low, the flow is often interrupted by chatting, drinks, and other distractions. Given this, I think a tournament would be too challenging for this group at this stage: following the tournament schedule would put too much pressure on most people, who just want a chill evening.

At the same time, almost every night people demand a “grand finale” — they want a climax where there is only one winner (the bank is usually donated anyway).

This puts me in a tricky spot where people want something that is clearly against the basics of a cash game, but at the same time they are not ready for a tournament format.

What I learned about cash games reading this forum is that (i) people are free to cash out at any time, (ii) the blinds do not increase and remain the same for the night.

With all this in mind, what is the best way to hold a hybrid format game where it is basically a cash game, but at the end there remains a single winner at the table? The duration of the game is usually around 4 hours. People would still be allowed to cash out and leave at any point.

I thought of several options of speeding up the game:

1. Increasing blinds, not as often as in tournaments but with larger increments, e.g., after first 2 hrs the blinds double every 30 minutes (but this is against the nature of a cash game).
2. Introducing (big blind) antes (but antes are normally smaller than big blinds, so the effect would not be very noticeable).
3. Mandatory straddles (could work, but again, it may be too slow for my purposes).
4. Increasing minimum raises — the blinds would remain the same, but the minimum raises could be set at $10, $20, etc. (not sure how different it would be from increasing blinds).

Am I overthinking it? Is there a tried and true way of bringing tournament elements into a cash game? Or could it be just anything that works for us as long as it is consensual and everyone’s happy? Or maybe this just should not be a cash game but rather a tournament with very simple basic rules (with a potential for gradual complication over time)?

I would greatly appreciate any ideas. Thank you!

 

[GamingWithChips]

With my limited knowledge on running tournaments I can really only offer my experiences with a similar sounding group and objective:

We all originally wanted a slower paced game but we also wanted a winner. This started with us doubling blinds with 1 hour levels and then randomly deciding we needed to increase blinds or else it will be 3AM (I know I know, newbs...LMAO). But then by the end of the tournament people would complain that blinds are "increasing too quick" but what they really mean is that 100/200 jumping to 200/400 in the next hand felt "too big".

So the answer to this is just smoothing it out.

We now do 20 minute levels in the first 3 hours and then 15 minute levels in the last hour to finish things up. By the 3 hour mark there are usually only 3-5 people left anyway and people want to hang around to watch the winner, but they don't want to hang around for 3 hours more doing nothing...

For you I would suggest doing what you said and playing a tournament. 30 min levels for the first 2 hours and in this time allow maybe 2-3 rebuys, and then do 20 minute levels for the last 2 hours. This makes it feel basically like a cash game for 2 hours and then a tournament for the final 2 hours. If you make a nice gradual blinds jump (typically averaging around 40% increase in levels) it should feel "smooth". The blinds really get noticeably big at the 3 hour mark then it feels like you only have 3 big blinds unless you make a move lol

This should allow people who don't care too much about winning that day and who want to leave early to play for 2 hours and lose $20-40 but then go home early and sleep well. The rest can fight for their poker lives for 2 hours to crown a champion.

In terms of making this run smoothly as the host I would download an app or use computer software to run the tournament. I use the "Poker Timer" app in the App Store and it works great for us! It's just displayed on an ipad for everyone to see and it runs the blinds and gives an audio warning for the last minute in each level and what the new blinds are.

It works well for us!

 

[Random Phish]

If people want to gamble it up at the end of the night, you could do showdowns until either someone has all the money or people give up.

Showdowns come in various forms but the basics are everyone puts a fixed amount in the pot, you deal out a set number of cards to each player, you can’t look at your cards, and each player rolls a card until their exposed hand is better than the previous player. If you roll all your cards and can’t beat the previous player you’re out. Best hand takes the pot.

 

[Jackypoo]

I LOVE flips. I try to play solid poker all night but at the end when the table breaks i turn into a gambling degen. Nothing better than gambling against your buddies to try and win your money back.

Not sure if it's the right fit for your group but i would encourage it. And it could lead to a spectacle of a finale if your flips are large enough. Some people will only want to flip $5 at a time but I'm generally willing to go up to $20 for several flips

 

[JJDiamonds]

We do flips at the end of night but haven't done it for stacks since usually those left have all the money and stacks can get over $1K

 

[JabirHayyan]

Recently, I’ve started hosting a $1/$2 game of NLH for a group of 8-10 friends. Most of us are complete beginners who have played several times but never deep dived into rules, strategy, or the math behind the game. We play a cash game because everyone needs to leave at different times, the game is very casual, the stakes are low, the flow is often interrupted by chatting, drinks, and other distractions. Given this, I think a tournament would be too challenging for this group at this stage: following the tournament schedule would put too much pressure on most people, who just want a chill evening.

At the same time, almost every night people demand a “grand finale” — they want a climax where there is only one winner (the bank is usually donated anyway).

This puts me in a tricky spot where people want something that is clearly against the basics of a cash game, but at the same time they are not ready for a tournament format.

What I learned about cash games reading this forum is that (i) people are free to cash out at any time, (ii) the blinds do not increase and remain the same for the night.

With all this in mind, what is the best way to hold a hybrid format game where it is basically a cash game, but at the end there remains a single winner at the table? The duration of the game is usually around 4 hours. People would still be allowed to cash out and leave at any point.

I thought of several options of speeding up the game:

1. Increasing blinds, not as often as in tournaments but with larger increments, e.g., after first 2 hrs the blinds double every 30 minutes (but this is against the nature of a cash game).
2. Introducing (big blind) antes (but antes are normally smaller than big blinds, so the effect would not be very noticeable).
3. Mandatory straddles (could work, but again, it may be too slow for my purposes).
4. Increasing minimum raises — the blinds would remain the same, but the minimum raises could be set at $10, $20, etc. (not sure how different it would be from increasing blinds).

Am I overthinking it? Is there a tried and true way of bringing tournament elements into a cash game? Or could it be just anything that works for us as long as it is consensual and everyone’s happy? Or maybe this just should not be a cash game but rather a tournament with very simple basic rules (with a potential for gradual complication over time)?

I would greatly appreciate any ideas. Thank you!

While I was in Taiwan for APT Taipei, I noticed, a club with a lot of local games where they use a hybrid format between cash game and tournament because cash is illlegal in Taiwan.

The idea is simple: everyone buys in for the same amount, chips have a cash value, but the game is time-limited (around 3 hours). Instead of endless cash play or full knock-out tournaments, blinds are kept very simple with only two levels: low blinds to start, then higher blinds in the second half to create action.

When the time is up, there’s no “winner takes all”. People just count the chips and cash out based on what they have.

Great for home games or mixed-level players.

Hope this helps
Best
Jabir

 

[sbeckett]

Thank you all for the suggestions - they are all very relevant, and I think we will tried all of these and a certain point.

We all originally wanted a slower paced game but we also wanted a winner.

I know, right? It's good to know that we're normal

For you I would suggest doing what you said and playing a tournament.

I would download an app or use computer software to run the tournament.

Thanks! At some point in the future I think we will definitely try to play a tournament. My concern is that most of the group are still getting the hang of it, and I would like to avoid putting too much pressure on them. When we get there, I'll try using the app you suggested - it looks very simple and efficient. The apps I checked out before were frankly too complicated for our purposes.

you could do showdowns until either someone has all the money or people give up

I LOVE flips.

Would it be correct to assume that showdowns and flips are the same thing? I'm a little new to the terminology. Do you think 1 on 1 games of blackjack could work?

Some people will only want to flip $5 at a time but I'm generally willing to go up to $20 for several flips

those left have all the money and stacks can get over $1K

Whoops, I missed an important detail - our $1/$2 game is actually a $0.025/$0.05 micro stakes game in our local currency, we just use $1/$2 chips for convenience. So the whole bank is up to $40 most nights, and it is usually donated anyway. Nevertheless, flips should work for us!

gambling degen

I laughed out loud harder that I should've probably I certainly know that feeling!

Instead of endless cash play or full knock-out tournaments, blinds are kept very simple with only two levels: low blinds to start, then higher blinds in the second half to create action.

Very nice! It sounds like something we could actually use straight ahead, without me being afraid to make things too complicated for the group. A great gateway to a tournament format, too!

 

[JustinInMN]

While I was in Taiwan for APT Taipei, I noticed, a club with a lot of local games where they use a hybrid format between cash game and tournament because cash is illlegal in Taiwan.

The idea is simple: everyone buys in for the same amount, chips have a cash value, but the game is time-limited (around 3 hours). Instead of endless cash play or full knock-out tournaments, blinds are kept very simple with only two levels: low blinds to start, then higher blinds in the second half to create action.

When the time is up, there’s no “winner takes all”. People just count the chips and cash out based on what they have.

Great for home games or mixed-level players.

Hope this helps
Best
Jabir

We had this work around in Minnesota as well. At that time tournaments were fine for any buy in up to $1000, but cash games had a $60 bet limit. So they invented this survivor tournament. Players got the same amount of "tournament chips" for the amount of the buy in. $200 + 30 got T200 in chips, for example. They also had $300, $500 and $1000 versions. They played one orbit with 1-1 blinds, and then blinds were 1-2 for the remaining duration of play (usually 2 hours.) Players won cash based on the number of chips they finished with.

Eventually the bet limit was increased to $100 here so the $2-100 spread limit game replaced this concept. But it's interesting how there are ways to get around regulations.

 

[JustinInMN]

At the same time, almost every night people demand a “grand finale” — they want a climax where there is only one winner (the bank is usually donated anyway).

Yeah, a tournament is really what you want, but if the group isn't ready for that, we are trying to find a space where we don't render all the previous poker meaningless, but we are trying to end on a big note at the end.

This is an out there idea, but maybe this provides the group what you want.

When the cash game ends at a certain time everyone puts 5BB (or maybe more) in a "final pot" that's set aside. Play two more hands as normal. The winners of these two hands stay in the game, everyone else cashes out. Any amounts that need to get rounded down during cash out go into this final pot as well. The winners of the final two hands go head-to-head in a flip for the "final pot." (Dealt completely face up for maximum sweat .) The winner of the final gets to be the night's champion and wins 40-50BB.

it's out there, but just a thought.

 

[ThrowBack]

I just played in a ridiculous homegame. It was small and pretty much no one knew what was going on .

We played $20 cash, but doubled the blinds every time someone busted, resulting in a winner took all.

Buy in with cash value but increase the blinds, it will work

 

[Colquhoun]

I just played in a ridiculous homegame. It was small and pretty much no one knew what was going on .

We played $20 cash, but doubled the blinds every time someone busted, resulting in a winner took all.

Buy in with cash value but increase the blinds, it will work

That's a tournament with a $20 buy-in...and a terrible blind structure.
I suggest either a cash game (that doesnt have a sole "winner" at the end), or a tournament (that does).

If you want a cash game that gives a winner, try Monopoly

 

[ThrowBack]

That's a tournament with a $20 buy-in...and a terrible blind structure.
I suggest either a cash game (that doesnt have a sole "winner" at the end), or a tournament (that does).

If you want a cash game that gives a winner, try Monopoly

I do not disagree, but I can’t help but have fun and enjoy recruiting fish to a more “civilized game”

 

[JustinInMN]

That's a tournament with a $20 buy-in...and a terrible blind structure.
I suggest either a cash game (that doesnt have a sole "winner" at the end), or a tournament (that does).

If you want a cash game that gives a winner, try Monopoly

Monopoly with poker chips >>>>>>>>>>>> Stupid paper money.