• PCF is an Amazon Associate and an eBay Partner. If you make a purchase through one of our links, we may earn a commission at no extra cost to you. Thank you for your support!

Have we finally reached market saturation?? (3 Viewers)

extreme517 said:
Yeah, I think I would've done stupid things if I stumbled into that thread earlier that day. I love those Sundance chips and that set is in amazing condition!


Oh man...I've been around way too long! I can share how my perspective and journey have changed over time. I was first on ChipTalk 20+ years ago and loved that forum. Chipping was a different animal then as far as what was available for customization.

I was a sucker for clay chips the second I played with Paulson chips at a casino. I had a real bad hang up about spending more for a chip than what it's face value was in a game. I didn't want anyone to pocket expensive chips and it just didn't logically make sense to me to spend over face value for fracs and dollar chips. So, that was a self-imposed barrier that kept me from picking up chips I truly loved.

I used to spend so much time on @TheChipVault site looking at Ambassador Plaza chips...those were my favorite chips. I just couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger. My first decent set was a set of ceramic Nevada Jacks I earned through rakeback on Party Poker way back then. I still have those somewhere...LOL! (For the record, I have never sold a chip.)

I wanted a set of clay chips, so finally found some mint racks Rincon $1 chips that were HHR mold. These were and still are amazing chips. The quality on these is a whole different level than HHRs made for the home market. I paid $200 for 300 of these $1 chips. It was virtually impossible to fill these out with other actual real Rincon denoms, so I ordered some HHR blanks from ASM and had labels made. I think solid blank HHRs back then were 40 cents each? So my quarters cost me more than face value, but that was okay. I don't remember what the cost was on the 312 HHR blanks...maybe 50 cents?

Labeling chips back in 2006 was nothing like today. My labels were printed on sheets of paper Avery labels that I then oversprayed with clear satin spray can finish to give them a bit of texture and keep the ink from smearing. They have held up reasonably well, but these are not as thin and professional as what Gear has evolved into. This set of ASM HHRs worked really well for me. Great quality and have held up nicely all these years. I have a pile of them in front of me right now!

@BarrieJ3 I can totally relate about marriage, kids, and life in general being very busy so there were seasons I was more engaged in the community than others. The ChipTalk era was awesome for me. I love forums and they are mostly a dead thing now. I jumped on PCF pretty early on, but then life got busy and I had some seasons of not really logging in much at all.

I have noticed plenty of whining over many years about NAGBs/favorites/offline deals, etc. To me, I think it's fairly simple:
  • 1) I would much rather have chippers working together to come up with creative ways to get cool chips made that never would have existed otherwise.
  • 2) I like hobbies and I like camaraderie, but it can be somewhat hard to find in some hobbies. People get energized when they connect with others iand build relationships.
  • I think the meetups are a huge factor in people getting connected in real life. It took me until this year to finally attend a meetup and it was a highlight for me to meet so many great people that just wanted to have a good time around a shared interest. I can't say enough good things about my experience.
  • I think that varying economic situations/means are a factor in all of this.
    • I think some/many of the NAGB/meetup folks are in stages of life where they have the means to "blow money" on chips/travel, etc.
    • Some people that are grinding along at life and just trying to keep moving have a much higher opportunity cost if trying to think about picking up desirable clay chip sets.
    • There are others that don't even bat an eye when buying a set they want and it doesn't have long-term repercussions in other areas of their lives. To some, spending $10K feels no different than spending $100. So yeah...my impression is that plenty of the NAGBers don't need to make a profit on chips and that the thrill of the chase or the thrill of getting "dream" chips made is the real motivation and fun.
    • I think too often people project their own struggles, emotions, and greed onto other peoples' actions. It's better to take a step back and get some perspective. These are just chips. They are fun. They don't really matter. You can only use one set at a time anyhow, etc. It's going to be okay. I have participated in other hobbies where it is literally impossible to have everything, so I long ago stopped caring about being a completionist in any way.
  • People that are feeling negative need to change their paradigm. It's not about being an "insider" or an "outsider". I suppose I am an "outsider" as I'm not part of any inner circle. But, you know what? That's on me or you to go engage with people, talk/post, build friendships, bounce ideas around, etc. You can engage with the PCF community as little or as much as you want.
  • I haven't had any bad experiences here or from old ChipTalk days. Life is what you make of it. All the folks I've interacted with here and the few I have gotten to meet in person are all friendly, helpful people.
In regard to a "golden era" of chipping, yes 20 years ago in retrospect was a great time to buy chips that are now unobtanium. That said, I try to always be forward-looking. The quality of options available now crushes anything that was happening 20 years ago. And all the accessories? Affordable tables, custom toppers/felts, dealer buttons, cut cards, etc. It is so much easier to reasonably put together a cool home setup than ever before.

Yes, certain "premium" chips are always going to hit the pocketbook more than we'd like. But, I have also seen casino-used Paulson playable sets go for less than Chinese chips. So, with patience and attentiveness to the forums it is possible to find decent clay chip sets that won't break the bank. If you want something nicer/custom, then get a side hustle and "chip away" at it until you can get something you like more. Everything in due time.

I think there is a wealth of knowledge, creativity, and ingenuity here at PCF. There is much to be picked up by searching and reading through the forums.
Click to expand...
Well said! Chipping should be fun and enjoyable. The meetups really help extend that.
 
At today’s prices a nice chip set is a luxury item. I’m glad I’m done buying. During my chipping career I’ve checked all my boxes, now I have more than I need and cannot justify another luxury item. I do not know in my lifetime when there was such a steep step up from I have enough, and I want it all as far as this hobby is concerned. Gotta be satisfied sometime.
 
1752621820986.png
 
The market is never truly saturated as long as there are unmet needs.

For example, I still need some CDI98 $1s and non-overstamp White Starburst solids to complete my projects. WHERE THE HELL ARE THEY? (and don't say "in the rest of your collection" which may be true but you can fuck right off)
 
upNdown said:
A few years back, people were paying up to $20/chip for the latest and greatest NAGB chips. Yet today they languish unsold at $10/chip. SATURATED!
https://tigerpalacechips.com/
Click to expand...
A website having inventory isn’t saturated. Most of you guys have no retail business experience lol
 
doublebooyah85 said:
A website having inventory isn’t saturated. Most of you guys have no retail business experience lol
Click to expand...
I guess you mistook my thinly disguised dig at Tiger prices for a commentary on the chipping market.
(I still remember SKU numbers from the 80s, so yeah, I’ve done my time in retail.)
 
upNdown said:
A few years back, people were paying up to $20/chip for the latest and greatest NAGB chips. Yet today they languish unsold at $10/chip. SATURATED!
https://tigerpalacechips.com/
Click to expand...
doublebooyah85 said:
A website having inventory isn’t saturated. Most of you guys have no retail business experience lol
Click to expand...
If you price them right, they move. If you don’t, they collect dust. Examples: Rancho Agave and Faro Dunes. Having inventory collecting dust doesn’t make money. Seems the supply out weights the demands with the Tigers.
 
Ebbs and flows.

All of the original Vegas/Cali colored Tiger cash sets with breakdowns suitable for the average cash game are sold out and have been, often going for quite higher prices than IPO. Sure, some tourney sets and odd barrels from said sets are sitting, but that's because 1) tourneys suck and 2) there are way more cash game players that are happy to own more than one cash set. Not to mention, at this point, it should be apparent there were a metric fuckton of Tigers ordered compared to the typical NAGB.

That said, I do think we are in a bit of a market slump and have been for the past year to year and a half. (Now is the era for fantastic deals on nicely used THCs and sharp RHCs. Idk if that is going to change anytime soon or in what direction, but it is certainly a buyer's market if/when things are actually publicly listed at good prices.)

Also, "FOMO is a hell of a drug".
EFvYma.gif
 
Last edited:
Timmah said:
If you price them right, they move. If you don’t, they collect dust. Examples: Rancho Agave and Faro Dunes. Having inventory collecting dust doesn’t make money. Seems the supply out weights the demands with the Tigers.
Click to expand...
Again, what other product in the retail industry “must sellout”. lol

It’s not hurting having inventory. People just seem to sell chips bc they need money. That’s not how a business works. Nor a retail environment.
 
doublebooyah85 said:
Again, what other product in the retail industry “must sellout”. lol

It’s not hurting having inventory. People just seem to sell chips bc they need money. That’s not how a business works. Nor a retail environment.
Click to expand...
I don’t really care about this discussion in general, but it’s interesting to think about how apples to apples the Tiger Palace “business” is to a standard retail business.

I’m not sure it’s comparable to, say, a vitamin store or something, where many products sit and collect dust but it doesn’t matter because there are other products selling, and, more importantly, new desirable inventory arriving. I mean yes initially it did look like that, as Rieguy alluded to; the desirable stuff is mostly sold out. But there is no new product to sustain the business. Now you’re just left with the stuff that, perhaps, no one is going to buy at the listed price.

And perhaps that doesn’t matter. It’s not like Ken has rent to pay on a store front, or employees, etc. If he doesn’t need the money, he can leave them up indefinitely.
 
Rieguy said:
I do think we are in a bit of a market slump and have been for the past year to year and a half. (Now is the era for fantastic deals on nicely used THCs and sharp RHCs. Idk if that is going to change anytime soon or in what direction, but it is certainly a buyer's market if/when things are actually publicly listed at good prices.)
Click to expand...
I think what you're describing is a market correction. From 2020-2022 or so, prices skyrocketed because demand outpaced supply. In any collectables market, scarcity is the main driving force. The premium items, like Jack Watermelons for example are still fetching top dollar and despite this, they seldom hit the marketplace.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to call this a 'buyer's market' though. For it to be a buyer's market there has to be something to buy. It's not as if eBay or the classifieds are saturated with good deals on high-demand items. Most of the classified listings are either over priced or they're big ticket items that seems to sit for long periods of time. I just don't think we're going to see the masses spending $3-4k on a set of chips even if they're priced fairly. I think it's a combination of factors, most notably that people are probably pretty content with their current setup, along with economic conditions that make a large financial commitment less viable when it's not immediately apparent that they can be liquidated right away if you all of a sudden need the cash.

doublebooyah85 said:
Again, what other product in the retail industry “must sellout”. lol

It’s not hurting having inventory. People just seem to sell chips bc they need money. That’s not how a business works. Nor a retail environment.
Click to expand...
I think it's hard to look at the ultra-premium product like a NAGB and make a determination about the health of the market as a whole. It's like Bugatti's sales being down and concluding that the entire car market is in trouble.

I think the 'saturation' thing is kind of silly. It seems that the bigger issue is a lack of new and novel products that are affordable to the masses. We were spoiled by the Jack Detroit offerings.... they were available in large quantities and at reasonable prices. I bet if Jim magically found 100,000 chips like that again the hobby would wake up in a hurry.
 
Last edited:
suchj0sh said:
If he doesn’t need the money, he can leave them up indefinitely.
Click to expand...
Exactly. And it’s not like it’s a new vehicle with the model year end approaching and depreciating monthly.

Sure, do values fluctuate a bit, absolutely without a doubt. But to use tigerpalacechips .com as any indication of the market is foolish.

THC mint clay chips are becoming more rare and rare. Even the recent NAGB was a small order and supply sold out when he introduced a much better lineup.

Chip prices fluctuate so much bc were hobbyists and people often sell bc they need some cash. Not bc they are making smart decisions.

Premium new clay poker chips can sit for months/years, and there will be a buyer eventually.
 
Based on the two recent releases, and the fact that the most previous release sold out before they were even made public, we are nowhere near market saturation.

There were a couple of major events that happened that was able to boost the demand while also increase discretionary income. Plus, we had a large inflation of prices around that same time.

Also, anyone who is buying low end RHC sets (or sets priced in a certain price range) can also resort to buying alternatives like Tina’s. I really believe Tina’s hybrids were a market disruptor. I’m very curious to see how tariff’s will affect the lower end RHC market. Will people pay the additional cost for Tina hybrids or move back to your lower price RHC sets.
 
shorticus said:
Based on the two recent releases, and the fact that the most previous release sold out before they were even made public, we are nowhere near market saturation.

There were a couple of major events that happened that was able to boost the demand while also increase discretionary income. Plus, we had a large inflation of prices around that same time.

Also, anyone who is buying low end RHC sets (or sets priced in a certain price range) can also resort to buying alternatives like Tina’s. I really believe Tina’s hybrids were a market disruptor. I’m very curious to see how tariff’s will affect the lower end RHC market. Will people pay the additional cost for Tina hybrids or move back to your lower price RHC sets.
Click to expand...
I do wonder how good a value Tina chips actually are (for people who actually play their chips).

At the point mint RHC chips seem to start breaking in and getting to their sweet spot Tina's are getting slipper AF and may be done their life cycle. At the end of 20 years you may have 5 shitty Tina sets whereas the RHC are still good to go.
 
grantc54 said:
I do wonder how good a value Tina chips actually are (for people who actually play their chips).

At the point mint RHC chips seem to start breaking in and getting to their sweet spot Tina's are getting slipper AF and may be done their life cycle. At the end of 20 years you may have 5 shitty Tina sets whereas the RHC are still good to go.
Click to expand...
I bought my buddy a Tina hybrid set, and admittedly, they are a pretty awesome bang for your buck. They are 4-5x less than a premium rhc set plus fully customizable without all the work. He plays weekly so we will see in a year…
 
doublebooyah85 said:
I bought my buddy a Tina hybrid set, and admittedly, they are a pretty awesome bang for your buck. They are 4-5x less than a premium rhc set plus fully customizable without all the work. He plays weekly so we will see in a year…
Click to expand...
I'd love to hear how they do. We use some in one of our monthly leagues and after a year and a bit of use they are getting pretty slippery.

At 4-5x less I dont think the longterm value will be there.
 
upNdown said:
I guess you mistook my thinly disguised dig at Tiger prices for a commentary on the chipping market.
(I still remember SKU numbers from the 80s, so yeah, I’ve done my time in retail.)
Click to expand...
Yeah, but Mr.Art of the Deal himself has spoken — you have no retail business experience.
 
grantc54 said:
I do wonder how good a value Tina chips actually are (for people who actually play their chips).

At the point mint RHC chips seem to start breaking in and getting to their sweet spot Tina's are getting slipper AF and may be done their life cycle. At the end of 20 years you may have 5 shitty Tina sets whereas the RHC are still good to go.
Click to expand...
^^^^ this is what I’m thinking too

I have a little bit of many different kinds of chips and I keep going back to clay over ceramic.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Tina stuff is really neat, but there’s nothing like the real thing imo
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Register

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Similar threads

kaimat
The Scam That Wasn't (How We Found the Missing Tropicana $100s)
2
Replies
39
Views
2K
maxim_666666
maxim_666666
slivovitz
Starburst questions...
Replies
18
Views
884
slivovitz
slivovitz
_j_dog
  • Poll Poll
Should sellers be able to ask for more money after sale because they got other offers???
6 7 8
Replies
229
Views
7K
merkong
merkong
dizzyChipper
For Sale 9/30 Price Redux - 18 Vegas Barrels - Instant collection.
Replies
4
Views
700
dizzyChipper
dizzyChipper
CPC_Mike
  • Sticky
CPC is moving!
3 4 5
Replies
137
Views
11K
paraDoxl
P
Back
Top Bottom
Cart

Cart

Total -