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Kem durability (1 Viewer)

Old State said:
Do a search. Tons of threads on this. Kems are hands down the best feeling cards made IMO. I bought dozens of setup from every brand looking for something that feels close and there is nothing in their league.

Here’s the thing….you need to store them upside down with a cut card and …better yet…a cut card and small dealer button on top. Keep them out of humidity. They are acetate cards and ALL acetate cards have this issues. It’s just Kem are the most common by far.

There is a reason nearly every casino in America uses them and has for decades. They feel amazing a resist creasing and marking … but they require some storage techniques. I personally think they are more than worth the effort.

If you don’t want to do all that don’t buy them. I would recommend Cartimundi CCPs which. An be found pretty cheap on Amazon. Best value in cards.
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Thanks for the storage tips! Turning mine over now
 
NotRealNameNoSir said:
Unsure of why, but their texture has done that for me before. Some design flaw. It feels like cracking, like sea ice pattern. Still usable but I found them unpleasant.
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That is caused by high temperature. you left the cards in the car in the summer. That defect can not be fixed
 
A shame to hear about the quality concerns. I have an early USPC era setup that has held up very well - no bending/warping and no deterioration. I don't need a deck to last two decades but having problems fresh out of the packaging would be pretty rough.
 
New York Yankees Thumbs Down GIF by MLB
 
Concrete said:
A shame to hear about the quality concerns. I have an early USPC era setup that has held up very well - no bending/warping and no deterioration. I don't need a deck to last two decades but having problems fresh out of the packaging would be pretty rough.
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this phenomenon of "cracked ice surface" due to high temperature is known to affect both old and new decks of KEM
 
surfik said:
this phenomenon of "cracked ice surface" due to high temperature is known to affect both old and new decks of KEM
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Older guitars also suffer from "cracked ice surface" when they're finished with nitro cellulose. The fact that cellulose acetate cards have similar properties when they age and are exposed to temperature changes is quite interesting.
nitro.jpg
 
Colquhoun said:
Older guitars also suffer from "cracked ice surface" when they're finished with nitro cellulose. The fact that cellulose acetate cards have similar properties when they age and are exposed to temperature changes is quite interesting.
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Did not know about guitars.


Thing is people concentrate on the acetate as material that makes KEM great cards but ignore or maybe not familiar about the printing process that makes them so singular.
Ok, they bow but do not lose ink ... In that capacity they are top runner amongs other cards. This is because after card is printed it is coated with microgranules of similiar material.
The closest to replicate KEMs characteristics is Fourniers. Every Fournier (ok, not every but premium plastic ) is in fact 3 layers of material. Middle one is printed with ink that 2 outer layers are being applied to prevent losing ink.

General advice....
Do not bitch about KEMs but jus look for the best deal per dolar spent. "(not talking about @Colquhoun in aby regard)"
 
surfik said:
Did not know about guitars.


Thing is people concentrate on the acetate as material that makes KEM great cards but ignore or maybe not familiar about the printing process that makes them so singular.
Ok, they bow but do not lose ink ... In that capacity they are top runner amongs other cards. This is because after card is printed it is coated with microgranules of similiar material.
The closest to replicate KEMs characteristics is Fourniers. Every Fournier (ok, not every but premium plastic ) is in fact 3 layers of material. Middle one is printed with ink that 2 outer layers are being applied to prevent losing ink.

General advice....
Do not bitch about KEMs but jus look for the best deal per dolar spent. "(not talking about @Colquhoun in aby regard)"
Click to expand...
I have a small question about KEM cards. I have read a lot about them, that they hold up well. For example, on all the plastic cards that I have had, white dots appear over time. They do not affect the readability of the cards in any way, and for example, these Modiano cards show more wear on the front side, but this is not observed on the back. (In order to get good photos of what I am talking about, I had to tinker with the camera settings). Perhaps the manufacturer applies some kind of varnish to one side?
IMG_20250107_074151.jpg
IMG_20250107_074210.jpg
IMG_20250107_074224.jpg
IMG_20250107_074253.jpg

For example, Fournier wears out evenly on both sides. But, I have never seen this here on the forum with KEM cards. Am I just not seeing it or do they wear out differently?
Can someone take some good photos?
 
surfik said:
this phenomenon of "cracked ice surface" due to high temperature is known to affect both old and new decks of KEM
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Good to know. Not much in the way of high temperature in England so I guess I've avoided it!

I will probably pick up a new KEM setup anyway and see how it goes. Can't beat the arrow design.
 
Concrete said:
Good to know. Not much in the way of high temperature in England so I guess I've avoided it!

I will probably pick up a new KEM setup anyway and see how it goes. Can't beat the arrow design.
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....started playing after watching Rounders?
 
surfik said:
....started playing after watching Rounders?
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Tough to say going back that far but it probably at least influenced the card choice! I seem to remember back then in discussions of Copag vs KEM that the latter was generally thought to be the better product. No idea if that is still the case all these years later.
 
AlbinoDragon said:
The white dots are where the high points in the surface texture have worn down the ink printed on the card. It's on the backs as well, but it's much harder to see as the backs are usually patterned where the pips on the faces are not.
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I understand that. But the question is, do the same white dots appear on KEM cards?
 
Fading isn’t something I’ve seen with Kem cards. Judging from the sets I see at casinos they usually get thin glassy and bow with extreme usage. Again, that’s the ones I see at casinos (which is every casino I’ve played in) ….cards being shuffles hundreds of times a day
 
I bought two setups from Amazon last year. The blue and red and the black and gold. Haven't really used them very much, but of course they feel great. That being said, I complained about the price because it was a little over $50 a setup but now I'm looking and seeing them for over $70 a set up! Also, I don't like the fact that they switched to the cardboard box for such a high price. I also bought a setup modiano. I like them LOL
 
KarateMaster72 said:
I bought two setups from Amazon last year. The blue and red and the black and gold. Haven't really used them very much, but of course they feel great. That being said, I complained about the price because it was a little over $50 a setup but now I'm looking and seeing them for over $70 a set up! Also, I don't like the fact that they switched to the cardboard box for such a high price. I also bought a setup modiano. I like them LOL
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The first Kems I bought were in 2002 and I remember they were $23.99 and very hard to find. I ordered them from he gamblers general store in Vegas. When Copag became available around 3 years later they were around $12 as I remember thinking they were half the price.

Adjusted for inflation that was $43.56 and $21.78. So Copags are dead on with inflation and Kems are almost double. When Amazon had Kems they would often go on sale. I never payed more than $23 and the last setup i got before Covid was on Amazon for $13 which I posted links to here back then. I bought most of my Kems between 2012 and 2019. I’d say the average price I paid was about $20
 
Old State said:
The first Kems I bought were in 2002 and I remember they were $23.99 and very hard to find. I ordered them from he gamblers general store in Vegas. When Copag became available around 3 years later they were around $12 as I remember thinking they were half the price.

Adjusted for inflation that was $43.56 and $21.78. So Copags are dead on with inflation and Kems are almost double. When Amazon had Kems they would often go on sale. I never payed more than $23 and the last setup i got before Covid was on Amazon for $13 which I posted links to here back then. I bought most of my Kems between 2012 and 2019. I’d say the average price I paid was about $20
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This is insane
 

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KarateMaster72 said:
This is insane
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Yeah, when companies do this they usually don't want to sell to the public but also don't what to make it a policy. I few years back I did see some Gemaco SuperFlex used in a Harrahs tournament in AC but since then every casino I’ve ever played poker at in AC, Vegas, and Boston over the last 25 years have used Kems exclusively…usually branded with the casino name. I’m sure they are happy to just sell to casinos in bulk

The only time I’ve ever seen Kems not used in a casino are on YouTube blogs at small card rooms in other states. Hustler in CA uses some brand called Queens but they are usually bowed badly in videos so I never sought them out. Copags are used in some really small clubs
 
Old State said:
Yeah, when companies do this they usually don't want to sell to the public but also don't what to make it a policy. I few years back I did see some Gemaco SuperFlex used in a Harrahs tournament in AC but since then every casino I’ve ever played poker at in AC, Vegas, and Boston over the last 25 years have used Kems exclusively…usually branded with the casino name. I’m sure they are happy to just sell to casinos in bulk

The only time I’ve ever seen Kems not used in a casino are on YouTube blogs at small card rooms in other states. Hustler in CA uses some brand called Queens but they are usually bowed badly in videos so I never sought them out. Copags are used in some really small clubs
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I had two decks of Gemaco cards over 10 years ago. Probably closer to 20. My friend has them but they're locked in his safe and he can't find the combo LOL. I loved those cards. I just ordered some off of eBay from a private seller. Supposedly brand new. We'll see when they get here Sunday
 
I bought 30ish sets of KEM Circle back in bridge size, jumbo index almost 20 years ago from eBay...Price was right as I just bought all this guy inventory (some of you may remember the guy as he was selling lots of used bridge size circle back standard index KEMs)...
Never have aby issiue with them
 
KarateMaster72 said:
I had two decks of Gemaco cards over 10 years ago. Probably closer to 20. My friend has them but they're locked in his safe and he can't find the combo LOL. I loved those cards. I just ordered some off of eBay from a private seller. Supposedly brand new. We'll see when they get here Sunday
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I have three setups of Gemaco SuperFlex. Ironically I find them on the stiffer side. I rarely use them as I also find the artwork pretty ugly
 
Years ago I swore by KEM, such as these bridge Arrows I've probably had for 10 years. Back then somebody got me about 6 of these thick plastic card-sized pieces, so I put these on top then put rubber bands on the box. This thread inspired me to look at them. The gold deck here is flat and mint. The grey deck? The familiar slight KEM bow.
I have WSOP cards from the 2008-12 era, when USPC acquired the Bicycle brand. Most also have a slight bow in the boxes with those plastic pieces or random chips on top. Also have a World Poker Tour KEM deck that's about 10 years old, it's bow is side-to-side (like a subtle half-pipe), like people were bending them pretty serious while looking at them lengthwise, rather than top to bottom.
Fast forward to 2016-24, and my Copag WSOP cards are flat and mint, just kept in the cardboard boxes the single decks came in.
Full disclosure, I live in Florida where the humidity is 70%+ for 4-5 months out of the year.
KEM plates.webp
 
Jaxen said:
Years ago I swore by KEM, such as these bridge Arrows I've probably had for 10 years. Back then somebody got me about 6 of these thick plastic card-sized pieces, so I put these on top then put rubber bands on the box. This thread inspired me to look at them. The gold deck here is flat and mint. The grey deck? The familiar slight KEM bow.
I have WSOP cards from the 2008-12 era, when USPC acquired the Bicycle brand. Most also have a slight bow in the boxes with those plastic pieces or random chips on top. Also have a World Poker Tour KEM deck that's about 10 years old, it's bow is side-to-side (like a subtle half-pipe), like people were bending them pretty serious while looking at them lengthwise, rather than top to bottom.
Fast forward to 2016-24, and my Copag WSOP cards are flat and mint, just kept in the cardboard boxes the single decks came in.
Full disclosure, I live in Florida where the humidity is 70%+ for 4-5 months out of the year.
View attachment 1538637
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2012 WSOP cards were produced by Fournier
 

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