Home Game Cheating (2 Viewers)

[BryantRC]

On this point specifically (and I'm not commenting on the other stuff) -- I totally understand talking about card magic at a card game. I studied magic as a kid and was always awful at it, but I never spent so much time with a deck of cards in my life. There's a guy at my game (don't worry- we have a dedicated dealer) that told me of his history in card magic and showed me some pretty great examples of card manipulation. I had him try again with a cut which seemed to foil many of his tactics, but there were still some things he could do. There's nothing off about that guy except that he likes to get drunk and punt money.

If people are being social and there's a cue there (say, playing cards) that reminds him if a previous point in life, that seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to bring up. Especially if he lacks the awareness to know that it's a bad look to draw attention to sleight of hand skills in a money game.

I don't think his bringing up magic is a point for or against cheating.

Disclaimer: I'm only talking about the one quoted sentence. Don't you dare say I'm taking a side.

Hind sight 20/20, I wish I had never mentioned it. If I was doing what they accuse me of, I definitely would have never mentioned it. We spent a lot of time together. I considered these guys very good friends.

 

[Coyote]

Being a host, you should:
-Use even a cheapo mechanical card shuffler where every dealer gets the deck from, via YOU.
-Demand card cutting from the player before the dealer, and the use of the cut card.
-Use even the filthiest poker chips in a customised, not widely available version.
-Try to have players NOT belonging to a single source / company of people.
-Be the banker and always make sure to correspond cash to chips, with the chip-and-money case NOT open (if not locked).
-Use new cards (or demand the use of new cards if you 're not the host)
-Try to minimize alcohol consumption (OK, impossible)

 

[BryantRC]

Idk when I see stuff like this, I always feel like maybe there is more to the story. I have questions that I'd like to get a sense of which direction to go. I like to be open minded.

Here is what I looked at ...

Joined yesterday...
View attachment 1161206

of all the posts on the site

View attachment 1161211

commented on two posts

View attachment 1161207

didn't seem to bring it, until it was a brought up.

View attachment 1161208

My post on the cheating thread was made anonymously and without naming any names or pointing any fingers.

 

[BryantRC]

So I have an interesting story. I was falsely accused of cheating and was blackballed by my friends. In early 2023, I connected with a large group of local players and started playing 1-3 times a week with them. Up until that point I had played mostly online with "play chips" except for a few occasions. This was my first exposure to "real" poker and I loved it. From the beginning I tracked every loss and win. I can't afford to just light hundreds of dollars on fire every month. I struggled to stay even and got stuck for a few hundred a few times. I was studying poker online and learning from my opponents. I started to win more and eventually started gaining ground on my bank role. Then after about four months it all came to a sudden end. One week I had the opportunity to play five days in a row. We had five host in our group. I went on the best sun run of my life. I won about $1700 profit over those five days. One of those games was a big cash game we had planned for months. $1/$2 blinds with a $400 max buy in. I bought in for $400 and cashed out with $1436. I felted several of my friends. It was ten times the size of what we usually played or won. Within a few days I got a text from the leader of the group saying they thought I was cheating and I would no longer be welcome. And that was it. Nobody would answer my calls or text. No discussion. No evidence. Just completely cut off. I was dumbfounded, hurt, angry, and stunned. I'm the only one who can know with 100% certainty, the truth. I know I did not cheat in any way. They said I was a card mechanic because I dabbled in card magic for about 6 months 15 years ago. I don't even know how it would be possible to manipulate the deck in our games. We used two decks, usually Copag. We always used cut cards when dealing. We rotated dealing and shuffling with the previous dealer shuffling one deck while the next dealer deals. So one person shuffles and another cuts the deck and deals. If the shuffler were to manipulate the deck in any way, the dealer negates that by cutting and then dealing with a cut card on the bottom. They said they thought some cards had been marked. I never noticed any marked cards. I certainly never marked any cards. They never showed me any marked cards. The whole thing really sucked. I lost a lot of friends and I felt very betrayed. I took about two months off from poker. After a while it kinda turned in to something I'm proud of. I beat the game of poker! I won so much, I was kicked out of the casino! I still miss playing with those guys though. Last week another friend outside of that circle invited me to a 12 man $50 buy in tournament. Before accepting his invite I had to explain what happened. He knows me well enough to know I would never cheat. I won 1st place and $500 that night and it felt really good. I used that $500 to buy my first sets of chips and a used table. I'm looking to start hosting my own game now. I've been lurking and learning a ton. So, thanks!

View attachment 1161028

Correction: I just realized my math was off. I cashed out of the high roller cash game with $1194 and not $1436. Not sure how I came up with $1436 but wanted to correct it.

 

[Colquhoun]

My post on the cheating thread was made anonymously and without naming any names or pointing any fingers.

I’m just trying to figure out the motivation for joining here and immediately telling your story knowing the host who ousted you was a member here. This whole drama was bound to arise.

 

[doublebooyah85]

I’m just trying to figure out the motivation for joining here and immediately telling your story knowing the host who ousted you was a member here. This whole drama was bound to arise.

Well he just got kicked out of a poker game and likes poker probably looking for more games. But of course this was to arise.

 

[BryantRC]

I’m just trying to figure out the motivation for joining here and immediately telling your story knowing the host who ousted you was a member here. This whole drama was bound to arise.

Lou doesn't own this forum. This is the best poker forum on the internet. From my research it is the only place to source the best chips. I am here for the same reasons all of you are. I was called out by Seven2Wizard and publicly accused of cheating 1 hour and 12 minutes after post my introduction post. I did suspect drama might arise but was surprised by how quickly it happened. I posted my story on the cheating thread anonymously and without naming any names or pointing any fingers. Seven2Wizard and louBdub both publicly accused me of cheating and lied about me. I had to respond.

 

[Budha]

Lou doesn't own this forum. This is the best poker forum on the internet. From my research it is the only place to source the best chips. I am here for the same reasons all of you are. I was called out by Seven2Wizard and publicly accused of cheating 1 hour and 12 minutes after post my introduction post. I did suspect drama might arise but was surprised by how quickly it happened. I posted my story on the cheating thread anonymously and without naming any names or pointing any fingers. Seven2Wizard and louBdub both publicly accused me of cheating and lied about me. I had to respond.

Is this game set up as a shuffle behind, or is the dealer shuffling and dealing the same deck?

 

[BryantRC]

I’m just trying to figure out the motivation for joining here and immediately telling your story knowing the host who ousted you was a member here. This whole drama was bound to arise.

I gave your question some more thought. It's a fair question. When you have been falsely accused of cheating, you feel the need to explain yourself up front when entering a new poker circle. I'd rather be honest with everyone upfront and you hear it from me first than build a relationship over time and then you hear about it elsewhere. I expected word would get out eventually so I posted my story immediately. I didn't expect it to happen so fast but it did. I hope that makes sense. Again, if you have never been in my shoes, just try to imagine.

 

[BryantRC]

Is this game set up as a shuffle behind, or is the dealer shuffling and dealing the same deck?

Shuffle behind

 

[Colquhoun]

I gave your question some more thought. It's a fair question. When you have been falsely accused of cheating, you feel the need to explain yourself up front when entering a new poker circle. I'd rather be honest with everyone upfront and you hear it from me first than build a relationship over time and then you hear about it elsewhere. I expected word would get out eventually so I posted my story immediately. I didn't expect it to happen so fast but it did. I hope that makes sense. Again, if you have never been in my shoes, just try to imagine.

I guess what I would have done, if I’m joining to just learn about chips and tables and such…is not even bring it up to a bunch of strangers that have no idea of your story. The only people that would make the connection to you were the ones you say falsely accused you.
If I wanted to be anonymous, I wouldn’t have even brought it up. But that’s me.

 

[Machine]

My post on the cheating thread was made anonymously and without naming any names or pointing any fingers.

What I'm saying is, out of 2.2 million posts, you chose to post about the cheating as your second thread. You knew Lou was on here, you had to know he would see it. He stayed out of your post until you brought him into it, Seven didn't even post in your thread until you went into the cheating thread and posted 'anon' about it, did you really think no one else would chime in?

Why not post in one of the PAHWM, or one of the Mockup threads, or the Blaze Chip Color, or the Cocktail thread, or the Card protector thread?

You're either oblivious or looking for the drama.
Your 'anon' approach seems more like lying by omission.
Everyone here is very much use to passive aggressive needling, which is how your post reads, once history is known.
I'd suggest not posting in this thread anymore and find another thread to put energy towards.

 

[TomC727]

On this point specifically (and I'm not commenting on the other stuff) -- I totally understand talking about card magic at a card game. I studied magic as a kid and was always awful at it, but I never spent so much time with a deck of cards in my life. There's a guy at my game (don't worry- we have a dedicated dealer) that told me of his history in card magic and showed me some pretty great examples of card manipulation. I had him try again with a cut which seemed to foil many of his tactics, but there were still some things he could do. There's nothing off about that guy except that he likes to get drunk and punt money.

If people are being social and there's a cue there (say, playing cards) that reminds him if a previous point in life, that seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to bring up. Especially if he lacks the awareness to know that it's a bad look to draw attention to sleight of hand skills in a money game.

I don't think his bringing up magic is a point for or against cheating.

Disclaimer: I'm only talking about the one quoted sentence. Don't you dare say I'm taking a side.

Ok. This seems reasonable.

 

[TomC727]

What I'm saying is, out of 2.2 million posts, you chose to post about the cheating as your second thread. You knew Lou was on here, you had to know he would see it. He stayed out of your post until you brought him into it, Seven didn't even post in your thread until you went into the cheating thread and posted 'anon' about it, did you really think no one else would chime in?

Why not post in one of the PAHWM, or one of the Mockup threads, or the Blaze Chip Color, or the Cocktail thread, or the Card protector thread?

You're either oblivious or looking for the drama.
Your 'anon' approach seems more like lying by omission.
Everyone here is very much use to passive aggressive needling, which is how your post reads, once history is known.
I'd suggest not posting in this thread anymore and find another thread to put energy towards.

The key word in the OP’s entire story is omission.

Yes. Spot on.

 

[doublebooyah85]

What I'm saying is, out of 2.2 million posts, you chose to post about the cheating as your second thread. You knew Lou was on here, you had to know he would see it. He stayed out of your post until you brought him into it, Seven didn't even post in your thread until you went into the cheating thread and posted 'anon' about it, did you really think no one else would chime in?

Why not post in one of the PAHWM, or one of the Mockup threads, or the Blaze Chip Color, or the Cocktail thread, or the Card protector thread?

You're either oblivious or looking for the drama.
Your 'anon' approach seems more like lying by omission.
Everyone here is very much use to passive aggressive needling, which is how your post reads, once history is known.
I'd suggest not posting in this thread anymore and find another thread to put energy towards.

Should have started in politics and got some Allies lol

 

[BryantRC]

What I'm saying is, out of 2.2 million posts, you chose to post about the cheating as your second thread. You knew Lou was on here, you had to know he would see it. He stayed out of your post until you brought him into it, Seven didn't even post in your thread until you went into the cheating thread and posted 'anon' about it, did you really think no one else would chime in?

Why not post in one of the PAHWM, or one of the Mockup threads, or the Blaze Chip Color, or the Cocktail thread, or the Card protector thread?

You're either oblivious or looking for the drama.
Your 'anon' approach seems more like lying by omission.
Everyone here is very much use to passive aggressive needling, which is how your post reads, once history is known.
I'd suggest not posting in this thread anymore and find another thread to put energy towards.

I did not bring Lou in to this. Seven2Wizard did. That all started on my introduction post and eventually bled over here. I am trying to learn and working towards hosting my own games. This is the place for that. I've explained why i posting in the cheating thread. Sorry you can't understand where im coming from.

 

[BryantRC]

The key word in the OP’s entire story is omission.

Yes. Spot on.

Omission? What did I omit? The only thing I omitted was the names of the people who did this to me. And that was because I didn't want to start slinging mud. Not sure what you mean by this?

 

[BryantRC]

Gentlemen,

It has been suggested that I provide some color to the conversation. Context matters, and there is always more to the story when it comes to the internet.

As I grow older, I am more able to walk away and ignore. However, when a club that I’ve put an insane amount of energy into is discussed, I feel it necessary to get involved.

Especially when a picture is posted at my table, my wife’s license plate (not ok with that), and this negative energy clouding around it all…

Context:

I run a pretty tight club where we have 24 players & 5 host tables (6th coming soon) with consistent weekly games. Tournaments, cash, heads up, and so on.

I’ll keep this simple so it doesn’t feel like a rant. I don’t want it to be. Probably will be…

• Bryant was studied for 3 weeks straight once things smelled funny. All hosts & some of the best players we have, dialed in. One of them is a literal human calculator. As in, he actually says things like “you have 37.98 odds…”

• We calculated the odds of all the big hands he dealt himself, and it was astronomical. It was consistent nuts, versus the 2nd, 3rd, and always rivered. This is called “the duke” (I hate that I know this now, but we did our homework)

• We use all in tokens. Something lucky or fun. His was a medallion, mirror finish. Looking back, and doing a bunch of research, I now know this as a “shiner” - something to peek at cards with as you slide them over.

• Bryant told me directly, he’s done card magic his entire life. Not a few months as he posted. My exact reply, “that’s a weird thing to tell a bunch of people at a poker table”

• Bryant only won big hands when he dealt. This was data we needed, and studied.

• All hosts inspected their decks, I’d say 80% of every single A/K/Q had “tick” notches in the side. All big hands he won…. He had the Ace, others had the K/Q version.

• I conducted an experiment and dealt an entire tournament, removing the deck from his hands. I even told the other hosts I wanted him to WIN or at a minimum continue playing the way he has. This was a Hail Mary for us to be WRONG. I rooted for him. But… No deck in his hand, and a NEW deck at that… He fell flat and was first out. Was also dead silent the entire game - not normal at all.

We absolutely wanted to avoid this. I had about half my group approach me speaking on it. I kept the pitchforks at bay, and started the eyes on approach. Some of us in our group are pretty savvy when it comes to approaching these situations [Narcotics Detective, Military Special Operations, and a few players with 20+ yrs poker experience] - I say this to simply give validity to those of us doing the homework.

We played devils advocate. We tried to let it sort out. But the above merely scratches the surface on a large list of situations that just didn’t add up.

In the end, the club was uncomfortable playing with him, and I made a decision, to protect the club, the vibe, the fun poker, and to tell Bryant it’s best that we part ways as the club doesn’t want to play cards if he’s at the table. I’m not gonna torch my club over one player who had a mountain of things piled against him.

Sorry for the rant,
Lou

@louBdub So 80% of all A K Q had "ticks" on the edges of the cards. That's a lot of marked cards! Let's see....4 tables, two decks per table, 12 A K Qs per deck multiplied by 80%.....that's 76 marked cards! That's a lot! I haven't seen the first one! I'd love to at least see pics of all these marked cards! Also, when were the marked cards discovered? Before or after you booted me? Surely you didn't knowingly allow marked cards to be played with. Where is the evidence?

 

[Machine]

I did not bring Lou in to this.

Obviously, you didn't bring him into this, you brought it to him, on two accounts!

I am trying to learn and working towards hosting my own games. This is the place for that.

It can be, while you're tying to learn about running games in these two threads, don't forget to be friendly, there are members here that would love an invite to a home game.

Sorry you can't understand where im coming from.

Yes, its me, the protagonist of my own story that can't comprehend the words on the page. I'm the one that is blind to reality.

names of the people who did this to me.

Clearly you're the victim. Thanks for bringing this to community, it makes the site a better place.

 

[BryantRC]

Obviously, you didn't bring him into this, you brought it to him, on two accounts!

It can be, while you're tying to learn about running games in these two threads, don't forget to be friendly, there are members here that would love an invite to a home game.

Yes, its me, the protagonist of my own story that can't comprehend the words on the page. I'm the one that is blind to reality.

Clearly you're the victim. Thanks for bringing this to community, it makes the site a better place.

Two accounts? Who has two accounts? What?

 

[Colquhoun]

Two accounts? Who has two accounts? What?

I think it was used as in, "Account: a report or description of an event or experience."

 

[MrBoosh]

O'Keeffe's Working Hands Hand Cream Value Size, 6.8 oz., Jar (Pack of 1) https://a.co/d/47HvJBJ

I swear by this stuff!!! And the value pack is the best way to do it! Nothing will heal dry and cracked skin like this stuff. Especially during the winter. It is no joke!!!

Now back to your regular scheduled program.

 

[TomC727]

This was likely brought up in previous comments, but the OP brings up points that he didn't start this and is just defending himself.

Let's be honest here. The OP joined this page, and immediately started a welcome thread. In this thread, his comment was that he was always looking for local games, and also wants to start hosting.

Is it possible that there is literally no incite whatsoever. Card tricks, and then joining this community, and instead of posting for the first time on a specific chip thread, or custom chip ideas, or whatever, he goes straight to making a welcome thread. Did he want the drama, or does he lack incite to know it will come. He has to know he's eventually going to get found out, and if truly a cheater, someone is going to drop the hammer and out him, which, happened an hour after the post.

I am neutral on what OP is. Is he a cheater, does he just give off a weird vibe, does he come across as a creeper, or does he just lack incite into his own personality and behavior that rubs people the wrong way.

I don't know the true answer to any of this. I stand behind my statement that I find it hard to believe that a large group of serious regulars would get together and ban someone for cheating because of a short run of "luck" that in the gran scheme of things, wasn't even a ton of money (per OP's figures).

 

[TomC727]

Another point of discussion.

If OP is truly just a bad fit to the regulars. Whatever the reason. Weird, unfriendly, weird vibe, whatever it could be. Wouldn't it have been easier for the host to just tell him, that, hey, my regulars think you aren't a great fit. Why get into the whole cheating thing. The cheat ban was far more labor intensive than just making some shit up. The correct term for the alleged cheating and the reason for the ban is - when there's smoke, there's fire.

 

[BryantRC]

I think it was used as in, "Account: a report or description of an event or experience."

Another point of discussion.

If OP is truly just a bad fit to the regulars. Whatever the reason. Weird, unfriendly, weird vibe, whatever it could be. Wouldn't it have been easier for the host to just tell him, that, hey, my regulars think you aren't a great fit. Why get into the whole cheating thing. The cheat ban was far more labor intensive than just making some shit up. The correct term for the alleged cheating and the reason for the ban is - when there's smoke, there's fire.

Cheating allegations require evidence....not smoke.

 

[BryantRC]

I think it was used as in, "Account: a report or description of an event or experience."

Not sure what he is referring to. I never mentioned Lou's name until after Lou accused me of cheating. Seven2Wizard started this whole thing. They are neighbors.

 

[Colquhoun]

 

[umbkcshah]

I’ll keep this simple so it doesn’t feel like a rant. I don’t want it to be. Probably will be…

• Bryant was studied for 3 weeks straight once things smelled funny. All hosts & some of the best players we have, dialed in. One of them is a literal human calculator. As in, he actually says things like “you have 37.98 odds…”

3 weeks, seems long if seriously concerned about a cheat.

• We calculated the odds of all the big hands he dealt himself, and it was astronomical. It was consistent nuts, versus the 2nd, 3rd, and always rivered. This is called “the duke” (I hate that I know this now, but we did our homework)

No examples, also how is he manipulating the deck if he's not shuffling. If he was shuffling, this is a game security issue imo.

EDIT: is the theory that he's seeing the hands dealt using token, then looking through the deck to find cards that river him the nuts vs 2nd nuts. Possible, but easier to catch than Worm in rounders.

• We use all in tokens. Something lucky or fun. His was a medallion, mirror finish. Looking back, and doing a bunch of research, I now know this as a “shiner” - something to peek at cards with as you slide them over.

Forget the show, but this was a lighter in Hollywood version. Again if I had concerns, a video or photo would show weird placement of the card protector.

• Bryant told me directly, he’s done card magic his entire life. Not a few months as he posted. My exact reply, “that’s a weird thing to tell a bunch of people at a poker table”

Who knows. Seems like a reason to be concerned when the deck he's manipulated (shuffled) as a great mechanic can set the deck and know the result based on his hand. Guess he could arrange the deck during the game if 'skilled' enough with a distracted table.

Maverick style deck in the table, 1 finger card slides only when dealing. SOLVED IT

• Bryant only won big hands when he dealt. This was data we needed, and studied.

This makes little sense unless he's shuffling his own, which any host knows is a bad idea. EDIT: ok it's possible, but he's got to peek/arrange cards at some point.

• All hosts inspected their decks, I’d say 80% of every single A/K/Q had “tick” notches in the side. All big hands he won…. He had the Ace, others had the K/Q version.

How old were the decks, and images and comparisons. Maybe truth, but maybe group just can't fold strong hands.

• I conducted an experiment and dealt an entire tournament, removing the deck from his hands. I even told the other hosts I wanted him to WIN or at a minimum continue playing the way he has. This was a Hail Mary for us to be WRONG. I rooted for him. But… No deck in his hand, and a NEW deck at that… He fell flat and was first out. Was also dead silent the entire game - not normal at all.

Sample size, tournament, etc.

We absolutely wanted to avoid this. I had about half my group approach me speaking on it. I kept the pitchforks at bay, and started the eyes on approach. Some of us in our group are pretty savvy when it comes to approaching these situations [Narcotics Detective, Military Special Operations, and a few players with 20+ yrs poker experience] - I say this to simply give validity to those of us doing the homework.

Rants need more, most of these seem like nothing burgers.

Counterpoint: Regarding his records, I don't really buy them. Everything seems too clean, like it was written in one sitting to provide 'proof'. No dates, etc.

Who knows, but it's good entertainment at least.

 

[BryantRC]

Btw @louBdub, I'm not the first to post your wife's tag here. You are. This is from your 334 thread. I edited it.

 

[Machine]

OP brings up points that he didn't start this and is just defending himself.

note these time stamps from the two threads, Posts the bait, then Seven takes the bait, now Bryant is 'defending himself'

I've never met Lou, I don't care what he has done in his game, what I know is this, he's been here a min, he posts things and contributes, adds to posts, contributes, I've not really seen too much drama involving him, I'm not in the political forum and I don't know if he is or not, but what I know is manipulation, doesn't work on me