Murder or sticker over? Jack tourney white & black label (1 Viewer)

[OneGearManySpeeds]

I thought someone recommended to put new custom inlay stickers over the jack label tourney stickers rather than murder them.

I would absolutely love this bc murdering them sound tedious.

Anyone with experience yet doing this?

How did this project work out DB? I'm thinking the exact same thing with some JD tourney 500s. Need to get some more first tho, then labels.

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

Label-over = Label applied over the chip inlay.

Inlay Replacement = Label applied in the recess created after the removal of the original inlay.

I know this is an old thread but I'm considering the same exact thing and this thread is super helpful. I see exactly what you're saying now and I didn't see it until you explained it this way. In fact, a label over would start to encroach and cover up the the curved edges of the SY edge spots resulting in a different shape edge spot. the label would lap over the edge spots. I do like the look of these edge spots and would be a sin to cover them up. On the contrary It kills me to murder a really nice chip like an S&K cardamom five murder just breaks my heart. But maybe an SY $1 I'd have no problem murdering them and placing the smaller inlay inside the recess and preserving the look and feel of the two edge spots. I guess to me it's more about...

Historical preservation of a super rare and gorgeous chip VS Preservation of a widely available chip with really nice edge spots.
1. An S&K Cardroom Five I'd overlabel
2. An SY Dollar I think I'd Murder
3. A Jack Detroit Tournament Solid I'd overlable

In my case the JD tournament purple $500 since there's no edge spot to cover up and preservation of the scarce $500 in my case is more critical. Is my logic sound? Thanks for the deep dive. I never saw the nuances until you explained it this way

shameless plug. I have a barrel of JD tournament $500 and am considering a rack. Anyone has any I would be in your debt.

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

 

[doublebooyah85]

How did this project work out DB? I'm thinking the exact same thing with some JD tourney 500s. Need to get some more first tho, then labels.

@Nanook would know best.

I haven’t don’t anything yet

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

Ah, would love to see the results when you do it. What’s the intended label going to be?

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

Jack, jack, jack

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

Some unlamented (I think) labels on my GVs and some on some snappers that a chipper friend sold to me with labels that I’m removing that is a bastard to take off. View attachment 770981View attachment 770982this is a pic below to show there still is a recess after the label and these are similar condition as jacks.View attachment 770983

View attachment 770984View attachment 770985
sticker removed below and chip is saved!View attachment 770991

Gives me hope for my new JD Pink Snapper, future quarters. Thanks for the pics.

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

Label over, please label over.
I have label over and am so happy with them. I’ll send pics.
and if your worried about them pealing off, don’t, they are a mother to get off and the inlay is unharmed.
for best results is mint to lightly used like the Jacks.
@jrs146 confirm yours are laminate because iirc those are for murder not label over because they are too thick.

So let me understand. Some chips have just a label and some have a label with a clear protective layer overtop correct? Is this what you're talking about? So am I to understand the following...

Chips with just a label = good candidate for overlable
Chips with label and clear protective later over = not good candidate for over label because they will be too thick and create spinners?

Pls confirm my logic is sound here and I understand. Or school me. Thx.

 

[Nanook]

I thought someone recommended to put new custom inlay stickers over the jack label tourney stickers rather than murder them.
I would absolutely love this bc murdering them sound tedious.
Anyone with experience yet doing this?

Obviously yes and I am answering this for the benefit of @OneGearManySpeeds and not @doublebooyah85 as I know he already knows

If you ask a significant number of members, my guess is the majority likes the results of inlay replacement better.

The reason for this is it will yield a better result

I personally favor label-over myself. Played with plenty of sets using both methods and I like the look of label-over better. There's other benefits as well, no murder, cost, changing your mind and selling the set, etc...
You can always try the labels and if not completely satisfied, go the inlay replacement route, although you'd need different size labels for that.

However, there are some benefits of going the label-over route as spelled out above

..... I'm committed now and these will be my go to set from here on out but still wish I hadnt started it.
Its very time consuming, I ended up with bloody hands and some chip damage before I really got the hang of it.
and no matter how clean I removed the inlay they all seem a bit different in size so the labels dont look as good as I would have liked them to.

Most of these issues can easily be resolved by letting someone else that knows what they are doing do the murder for you.

If the chips are hard to find and have a lot of value in their natural state, I would overlabel, in case you ever decide to sell (so someone could remove the labels). If they are more common, and/or you don’t plan to ever sell them, I’d go with murder & replace.

Once sure of what you really want to end up with, the murder route will give MUCH better results. Label-Over with unlaminated labels will quickly lead to damaged and unsightly labels and label-over with laminated labels will yield spinners and wobbly stacks

How did this project work out DB? I'm thinking the exact same thing with some JD tourney 500s. Need to get some more first tho, then labels.

@Nanook would know best.

I haven’t don’t anything yet

I have murdered a ton of chips now with many, many stunning results.

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

Great answers everyone thanks!

DB feels like I'm like two years behind you. But I'll never have the kind of collection you all have in the span of two years lol. y'all are Nother-level

 

[Taghkanic]

Label-Over with unlaminated labels will quickly lead to damaged and unsightly labels and label-over with laminated labels will yield spinners and wobbly stacks

I’ve not experienced this with my overlabeled chips (using quality Gear labels). My faux Jack set hasn’t been in play an enormous amount lately, post-pandemic, but went through a couple dozen tourneys before that, with no such apocalyptic results.

 

[Nanook]

I’ve not experienced this with my overlabeled chips (using quality Gear labels). My faux Jack set hasn’t been in play an enormous amount lately, post-pandemic, but went through a couple dozen tourneys before that, with no such apocalyptic results.

I'm not saying everyone experiences apocalyptic results immediately upon over-label, however there is a reason casinos and card rooms always buy chips with a laminate over the vinyl Inlay/label/sticker whatever you want to call it.

 

[Taghkanic]

I'm not saying everyone experiences apocalyptic results immediately upon over-label, however there is a reason casinos and card rooms always buy chips with a laminate over the vinyl Inlay/label/sticker whatever you want to call it.

Sure... But how many home game hosts are incurring even a tiny fraction of the wear that chips experience in a 24/7/365 casino (or nightly cardroom)?

If I were doing anything like that kind of volume of games, I would never even buy any RHCs, let alone relabel them. I might not even go with most THCs, but opt for a harder chip. (Old ASMs are the hardest and most durable clays that I’ve owned.)

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

Once sure of what you really want to end up with, the murder route will give MUCH better results. Label-Over with unlaminated labels will quickly lead to damaged and unsightly labels and label-over with laminated labels will yield spinners and wobbly stacks

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. This has been an amazing read during my coffee and eggs this morning. I'm switching gears hard from acquiring chips to now wrapping my newb brain around a labeling project for two chips in the set. This forum has been unbelievably helpful and the guys that have been "looking out for me" so to speak, on the gathering process for the set has been incredible. I have no doubt I can execute a murdered chip. Used to work in a model shop running lathes, mills, etc. It's just chip knowledge I'm working on.

This quote above has me concerned that I might be unsatisfied with any over label job tho. I'll post a pic of my intended victims but quality, feel, and durability is important.

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

I’ve not experienced this with my overlabeled chips (using quality Gear labels). My faux Jack set hasn’t been in play an enormous amount lately, post-pandemic, but went through a couple dozen tourneys before that, with no such apocalyptic results.

I would love to see close ups of your Jacks. I'm planning to work with Jack Detroits.

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

Jack Detroit pink nickels and purple quarters. Almost looks like one is just a label and the pink has label and laminate? Any advice welcome. Even advise on color and progression as I’m still deciding.

Lastly I have two major problems. First I need more $500s and the second problem is. I need more $500s.

 

[doublebooyah85]

T500s always a hard denom to get. Good luck!

 

[Nanook]

Sure... But how many home game hosts are incurring even a tiny fraction of the wear that chips experience in a 24/7/365 casino (or nightly cardroom)?.......

100% true.
I guess a lot of this hobby comes down to how much of a perfectionist you are and what sort of trade offs you are willing to accept to for the money you are willing to pay.

If you have windwalker money and tastes 2 yrs ago, you just pay double what you should for whatever suits your flavor of the day and call it good. For some, overlabeled China clays are just great & others wouldn't be caught dead with anthing less than a pretty much unobtainable set. Some people hate the idea of murdering chips and others see it as a viable option to getting a playable set that might otherwise be unplayable.

Hey, dice chips do the job, right. Who are any of us kidding. None of us really needs anything more than a custom ceramic set for 50c-$1/chip, but lots of us want something more.

 

[Nanook]

Jack Detroit pink nickels and purple quarters......

Lastly I have two major problems. First I need more $500s and the second problem is. I need more $500s.

Spot progression usually goes from less complex to more complex as you go up in value. If you care about that then the snapper would be better as a quarter, but it is still sort out of place there too. Not many real casinos ever used inserts on fractionals at all, much less fancy inserts.

I know a lot of others won agree with me, but what I would do is sell the snappers and maybe sell the purple t500's too and buy two different (cheaper) solid RHC's & re-lable those as quarters and nickels

Do you only have a barrel of the t500's?

T500s always a hard denom to get. Good luck!

Getting more of those T500's could be very difficult. I've tried too and had no luck.

 

[Taghkanic]

I would love to see close ups of your Jacks. I'm planning to work with Jack Detroits.

I’ve posted a lot of pics of my overlabels in this “Faux Jack” thread, including some mixed with real Jacks. There are examples posted by others as well (some may be inlay replacement, some overlabels)...

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/faux-jack-pr0n-thread.51272/

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

I know a lot of others won agree with me, but what I would do is sell the snappers and maybe sell the purple t500's too and buy two different (cheaper) solid RHC's & re-lable those as quarters and nickels

That is an option, agreed. I do want a set that not only looks good but looks legit from a standards and protocol standpoint. I don't like breaking norms and rules. Tempted to keep them as snapper 2.50 in the collection, in the set, possibly in the cash game. If I did get two solids for nickels and quarters then what would you say are the typical protocols, rules, standards of color and progression for a "Nickel" and a "Quarter" (no cali rules, standard red five and green 25 types of cash sets) I'm still learning all this.

Do you only have a barrel of the t500's?

Yes. I got somewhat lucky timing wise on a refresh sale post and was first to dibs. To be honest, I saw JACK and just bought it lol but in my defense I was researching nickels options.

Getting more of those T500's could be very difficult. I've tried too and had no luck.

I'm picking up on that, ya... Thought is I may open up my search to any JD black label tourney barrel or rack or upper denomination and then try and trade them for the color I land on. 1k and 25k would work as well but I bet I could trade a 25k barrel for some 500s if I had them in hand and the right person looking.

Do you have any 500s? You mentioned you tried.

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

I’ve posted a lot of pics of my overlabels in this “Faux Jack” thread, including some mixed with real Jacks. There are examples posted by others as well (some may be inlay replacement, some overlabels)...

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/faux-jack-pr0n-thread.51272/

WOW, thanks for the inspiration.

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

Hey I did notice one thing I could maybe give back. In model making there's often a similar situation where an applied decal or label ends up with a bubble if the label is not porous. Quick fix is take a small "Pin" or the point of a razor and poke the bubble and then use like a plastic somewhat flexible scraper and work it flat. Maybe you'v already fixed these but it's super easy just takes time. If it's close to the edge you can work it to an edge as well. Plastic tools like these https://a.co/d/goYyj4z or the edge of a credit card.

 

[Taghkanic]

Hey I did notice one thing I could maybe give back. In model making there's often a similar situation where an applied decal or label ends up with a bubble if the label is not porous. Quick fix is take a small "Pin" or the point of a razor and poke the bubble and then use like a plastic somewhat flexible scraper and work it flat. Maybe you'v already fixed these but it's super easy just takes time. If it's close to the edge you can work it to an edge as well. Plastic tools like these https://a.co/d/goYyj4z or the edge of a credit card.

View attachment 1092781

Yeah, those were the first batch I did, and I messed up laying some of them down. After doing hundreds I got the knack of how to apply the label nice and evenly. But if I find some bubbles I may try your trick.

 

[Nanook]

That is an option, agreed. I do want a set that not only looks good but looks legit from a standards and protocol standpoint. I don't like breaking norms and rules. Tempted to keep them as snapper 2.50 in the collection, in the set, possibly in the cash game. If I did get two solids for nickels and quarters then what would you say are the typical protocols, rules, standards of color and progression for a "Nickel" and a "Quarter" (no cali rules, standard red five and green 25 types of cash sets) I'm still learning all this.

If you look on e-bay for examples of fractionals you will see what is most common. I wouldn't worry too much about standards/protocol too much. I would just mainly focus on good colors that look good with what you have and also good contrast so there is no trouble distinguishing one from the next etc. So, for example blue and yellow would be great. Solid white would be not so great as you are going to get "dirty stacks" with your $1.

Yes. I got somewhat lucky timing wise.......Thought is I may open up my search to any JD black label tourney barrel or rack or upper denomination and then try and trade them for the color I land on. 1k and 25k would work as well but I bet I could trade a 25k barrel for some 500s if I had them in hand and the right person looking.

Yea, you probably could, but the only thing is it is going to be tough to get any of the higher denominations in those tourney set

Do you have any 500s? You mentioned you tried.

no, sorry I do not. I do have some chips that might work for you but I'm not sure I want to let them go.

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

But if I find some bubbles I may try your trick.

Ya trust me... I don't know much about chips yet. But I do know this is a solid trick. the pin hole lets the air out but you'll never ever see the hole. a razor blade corner or xacto pin hole does the same thing. But you need a nice flat tool to smooth it out and can't be metal or it will scrape. So a plastic flat flexible edge with no sharp corners like a credit card works perfectly.

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

no, sorry I do not. I do have some chips that might work for you but I'm not sure I want to let them go.

Ooooo, why don't we start with pics while you think it over just kidding, pm me if you're thinking along those lines.

Yea, you probably could, but the only thing is it is going to be tough to get any of the higher denominations in those tourney set

ya I only need one rack tho... Perhaps this is a two phase... get a rack that works and keep looking for higher denominations in jack detroit tourney and swap them out long term. I do love the idea they are all original Jacks. TBH any of the higher JD tourney black label colors would work, purple, blue, and peach I think or yellow can't remember.

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

Someone has two racks of SY 2 peaches but I think those edge spots are too complex for a frac, do you agree? Ok I'll take my answer and then keep this post about labels. Didn't mean to get off topic.

 

[Bacon Dad]

@OneGearManySpeeds
So what did you decide upon - murder or overlay? And if you have any results, post some pics. Would love to see them.
Thanks.

 

[OneGearManySpeeds]

@OneGearManySpeeds
So what did you decide upon - murder or overlay? And if you have any results, post some pics. Would love to see them.
Thanks.

Change of plan... the snappers are staying snappers. the purple stack of 500s will most likely end up bounty or rebuy chips and I have SY $2s and Paris $2s slated for Gear labels. The plan is to over label them for sure tho... I don't like the idea of murdering chips. Months of looking hard for Jack Detroit chips only to run across sale posts of murdered JD 5s and murdered hundreds that just sit in the classifieds. I'm a purists