SixSpeedFury
Full House
I just laid down the gauntlet. Let's see what the response is.
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PGI group buy possibly forming on the blue wall (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Psypher1000
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Meddler2
Full House
I've never liked or agreed with any vendors using the terms "compression clay"or "true clay" when the product doesn't meet the definition. The only CC that I know of that had edge spots that meet the requirement was the Dunes line. And let's not even talk about the manufacturing process.
All my cc sets except for TS had serious quality flaws and most crumble to pieces with very minimum table time.
We need a massive GB for another kickass set of CPC and not cc imo.
All my cc sets except for TS had serious quality flaws and most crumble to pieces with very minimum table time.
We need a massive GB for another kickass set of CPC and not cc imo.
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Which line is "TS"? It's not ringing a bell for me.
Personally, I'd love to see a solid set using the base colours from the CPS or Majestic lines, but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.
Meddler2
Full House
Meddler2
Full House
Wonder if we could teach the 100k order requirement for Paulsons?
BPTDirector
Full House
All these things about Greg but not a peep about his partner in the venture from the very beginning that the people want to not say a thing about - Jim from the Chiproom - he stood by and never said otherwise but the same people always want to nominate him for sainthood. Seems a little unfair and unbalanced.
At any rate - you guys have been carrying on about the same thing for about 4 years on the Pharoahs cc's. I think we have all heard your butt hurt stories by now. And only about Greg.
Tommy - thanks for the great site - I'm sorry I just junked it up.
Probably gonna take some time off from here for awhile.
Andrew - JustsomeDude - I'm still in on the add on from CPC - I'll PM you with my email addy so you can contact me.
At any rate - you guys have been carrying on about the same thing for about 4 years on the Pharoahs cc's. I think we have all heard your butt hurt stories by now. And only about Greg.
Tommy - thanks for the great site - I'm sorry I just junked it up.
Probably gonna take some time off from here for awhile.
Andrew - JustsomeDude - I'm still in on the add on from CPC - I'll PM you with my email addy so you can contact me.
D'oh! And I owned a set of CPS chips for a bit, too.
Keep forgetting that's the proper name for that mold.
Meddler2
Full House
Dude, take a chill. I specifically brought this up with Joe regarding other cc's.
Unfortunately there seems no acceptable industry standard to accommodate China clay chips; especially since it appears that nobody can speak with any degree of certainty how the chips are produced. But for certain no pressed inlays by definition make all China clays 100% not a compressed clay chip regardless of how they are marketed.
bergs
Royal Flush
Greg took people's money and shit all over them. Any point to the contrary is just inaccurate, naive, or both.
Regarding the PGI group buy, I'm actually working with Joe at PGI on several other things as well...let me know if interested and I can add you to the PM distribution chain.
1) Group-buy of a previously unknown high definition movie of the JFK assassination from an alternative angle
2) Group-buy (shared ownership) of the carcass of a well-preserved alien found in a New Mexico desert in summer 1957
3) Limited set of Mark 3 Type 40 TARDIS machines - must be local for pickup (Gallifrey, Idaho)
4) Cleveland Indians 2015 American League pennant t-shirts (many available; very good price IMO)
Regarding the PGI group buy, I'm actually working with Joe at PGI on several other things as well...let me know if interested and I can add you to the PM distribution chain.
1) Group-buy of a previously unknown high definition movie of the JFK assassination from an alternative angle
2) Group-buy (shared ownership) of the carcass of a well-preserved alien found in a New Mexico desert in summer 1957
3) Limited set of Mark 3 Type 40 TARDIS machines - must be local for pickup (Gallifrey, Idaho)
4) Cleveland Indians 2015 American League pennant t-shirts (many available; very good price IMO)
I joined in 2007, and this is the first time I've ever heard this mentioned.
I assumed you were referring only to this thread.
I'm totally willing to throw Jim under the bus on that one as well, but to my mind he has WAY less responsibility for clarity on these things than someone presenting himself as a hobbyist. Jim is trying to sell shit. Caveat emptor, etc.
BPT, I can empathize with being sick of people bitching over the same shit forever, but to me this is warranted because it strikes at the very core of this hobby - knowledge of chipping and chipping history. And when it was originally posted it was at a particularly difficult time for ASM. IIRC they pulled their sponsorship of CT just after the ad was published. No coincidence, I'm sure. An American company that produces high quality handcrafted products was thrown into the same category as china crap according to the words of the forum administrator.
My point is that it's not a matter of being butt hurt - it's a matter of flat out incorrect information being continuously disseminated by that ad. It's disgusting and people should continue to draw attention to it until it's removed.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
Jim only supplied the product. Ten marketed it and put it on the street.
It was a cynical attempt to hoodwink n00bs out of their cash. Completely out of step with the ethos of the community.
I always enjoyed the zero post users bumping the China clay order thread though - those were good value.
Victor
Pair
A vendor can make any claim about a product and it's ok? I'd hold the vendor to a higher standard precisely because it's a commercial venture for them. In my mind, tbey are equally responsible.
Drawing attention to it here won't meet your goal of having it removed. Post a thread on CT with the title "Pharaoh's Club chips are not true clay chips", make your case in it, then bump it every day to keep it at the top of the 'unread' pile.
Lol. I was just watching Game of Thrones and that religious dude making the unlikeable queen do the walk of shame through town comes to mind in this situation. Confess to your greed and walk naked through town with the ugly nun chick chanting "Shame...they're not compression molding.... Shame...they're not compression molding"
By the way, I bought a set of those Pharosh chips for my work game because, in CPC terms, they are level .0000000000001. They've seen use 2x per week for at least a couple years. Not anything to be excited about for chip snob like me, but they've worn well and get the job done.
By the way, I bought a set of those Pharosh chips for my work game because, in CPC terms, they are level .0000000000001. They've seen use 2x per week for at least a couple years. Not anything to be excited about for chip snob like me, but they've worn well and get the job done.
OP
OP
Psypher1000
Straight Flush
Wait...your employer allows you to hold games at work? Are you self-employed? If not, who is this marvelous employer?
Forty4
Full House
Years ago at my former job it was encouraged by the managing partner, he even gave us a small budget to work with. Great times! Unfortunately, it died after a few good years.
Chicken Rob
Full House
My work gets $20/head for a departmental holiday party every year. My boss suggested we use the money to stake me in a tournament in a local charity room to see if we could have a better party. The department voted in favor. The COO wouldn't give us the money in petty cash.
1, sometimes 2 sitngos after the close.
$20 buy in. Pay 3. Usually 6-8 people.
5000 stack, 10 minute blinds, rebuys to 10 buyins.
$20 buy in. Pay 3. Usually 6-8 people.
5000 stack, 10 minute blinds, rebuys to 10 buyins.
Did you even read the bit of my post that you quoted above? Specifically the part about how I am "willing to throw Jim under the bus" as well? Also, do you see any portion of my statement that could be reasonably interpreted as giving a commercial entity carte blanche to say anything they want?
You can hold vendors to whatever standard you want, but if you expect them to be more honest than the hobbyists in their industry you're only setting yourself up for disappointment. Good luck with that.
I posted many times on CT tagging Greg and saying all I said above and more about the Pharaohs in the actual Pharaoh thread and elsewhere. He never responded once. But he did have a stable of sycophants who at that time were delusional enough to make the "well technically nothing is clay" argument.
I've given up seeing it taken down, but the least I can do is be loud about the deception of the advertisement in the place where chippers actually are. Spoiler alert: that's not CT.
I did read it. I just don't believe that "caveat emptor" makes the vendor any less responsible for clarity...the way I read it, it significantly reduced the vendors responsibility. I just think both parties involved here are equally responsible for the marketing done. You don't, which is fine. Maybe I read too much into it. If so, that's on me.
As for disappointment from vendors, yup, I'm always prepared for dissppointment. The list of vendors I will no longer do business with is quite long. But others give me reasons to support them. Guess I'm a fool. So be it.
Even if we disagree about Jim's culpability, it is irrelevant to the fact that whatever Jim's obligation as a vendor is to CT and PCF, Greg's obligation as the administrator of CT is to not prey upon the least educated members of the community to sell a product in which he has a financial interest. Yet he continues to do so and for that he deserves scorn.
Looks like the TS/CPS/whatever chips have also suffered from this problem according to @BGinGA here.
Pretty sure that post was made clearly tongue-in-cheek. Seriously, did you read it past the first sentence?
Yeah I read the post. I thought the chips had crumbled. Figured you were being sarcastic about how bad the crumbling was, but had no reason to think none of it was true.
Crumbled to the point where the entire set would fit in drinking straws, eyedroppers, or envelopes? lol.......
Nope, my CPS chips are fine. Haven't seen any play yet (so feeling pretty neglected), but otherwise okay.
Nope, my CPS chips are fine. Haven't seen any play yet (so feeling pretty neglected), but otherwise okay.
Meddler2
Full House
I didn't mean to imply the TS chips didn't suffer as well, I just didn't keep them long enough to find out. Only used 1x before selling. Hopefully they'll hold up to the new owner of my Midway set.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
My CPS chips (I refuse to use the TS name, even though I ordered blanks, so they are true T/S chips) have seen hours of play. No crumbling. I can attribute this to either a different material/process, or the extreme bevel that would naturally resist flea-biting.
Either way, the china clay being sold as "true clay" is on par with dice chips being sold as "true casino weight". It's a reason to doubt everything from the vendor.
China clay being advertised on a hobby forum as "true clay" is on par with dice chips being sold as "true casino weight". It's a reason to doubt everything from the forum.
If CT is just information and the first page causes you to doubt everything inside, why would anyone feel the need to defend CT?
Either way, the china clay being sold as "true clay" is on par with dice chips being sold as "true casino weight". It's a reason to doubt everything from the vendor.
China clay being advertised on a hobby forum as "true clay" is on par with dice chips being sold as "true casino weight". It's a reason to doubt everything from the forum.
If CT is just information and the first page causes you to doubt everything inside, why would anyone feel the need to defend CT?
12thMan
Full House
My guess would be that the people who defend CT do so for the same reason people would defend a vendor; a personal relationship, a sense of gratitude, or a recognition of the overall value the person/site in question brings to the hobby despite the questionable wording they use concerning certain products are a few reasons somebody would defend any of the names brought up in this thread.
I'm not in agreeance that a vendor has any less of a duty to be truthful in advertising than a hobbyist would. In my mind the vendor should actually bear more onus to be "truthful" than a hobbyist, after all it's them that has to stand behind what they sell (at least they should) and if somebody thanks they are getting a Paulson like product and a china clay shows up it's the vendor that has to answer the "WTF?" email. I own an auto glass company (small business, very small
), if somebody made their own windshield and marketed it as "unbreakable", yet I knew it wasn't, I wouldn't tell people I had an unbreakable windshield to sell them, I would instead say "Well it's marketed as unbreakable, buuuuuuut here's the real deal...". This is an apples and oranges situation I know, but the point stands that I wouldn't want to advertise something that I knew doesn't mean exactly what it sounds like it means, I would feel a little weird about it. "Oh no, you heard unbreakable windshield? Well what they mean is their brand name is Un Breakable Windshields, not that they are unbreakable...." 
I'm not shitting on anybody, it is what it is and it came about way before my time. I don't carry a torch for CT, I didn't even post in the PGI thread over there because it seems fruitless to me (for traffic reasons and PGI reasons), but I also don't have the hate that some people have for the site (not in this thread, definitely in many other threads though, usually from the same handful of people).
I like CT. I love PCF. I appreciate all our vendors. But I also have no problem stating my opinion as a business owner and a consumer of poker chips, consequently I think everybody else also has a right to any opinion or anger they may hold... But I do think if you are going to call the whole site into question (or whatever anybody wants to do/think about the situation, not specifically responding to just PZ's comment) because of this particular terminology from Ten, please keep in mind that you should extend that same angst towards any vendor that sells them as such. I love Josh at Apache, had more than a few pleasurable experiences ordering from his site, but this is copy/pasted from there concerning the Pharaohs and is just as wrong as anything posted by Ten imo: Each chip is solid clay and is custom molded just like a Paulson.
Either it's a big deal or it isn't. I am probably more in the "not so big of a deal" camp because the subject in question has never stopped me from perusing either site and wouldn't in the future, but double standards kind of stand out to me and this seems to be a clear case of that.
Oh, and by the way, to the CC flaking questions and personal experience; I have heard that the very first run of Milano chips had flaking issues with the $1s (I think), but for what it's worth I have had a set of Milanos that have seen plenty of play and there is zero flaking. There is a pretty vocal minority that puts Milanos as the worst of the CC chips in most any thread you read, but many many many other people consistently put them at the top of their lists as the best, or one of the best, me included. They might not be the best, everything is subjective, but for anybody who likes the Milanos I say GO for it, they are a VERY solid chip for the money with a beautiful design and for the most part shit on a lot of the other CC chips that are brought up as the best. To put it another way, the Milanos DUMP on the towerandspearcrosshatchedsuperbevel chips, like dump on them after taco and margarita night at the local dive bar kind of dumping on... JMO of course.
Edit to add: in my paragraph above about the Milanos, I'm not sure if the T&S chips had the cross hatching or if it was the CPS (I don't own sets of either), I can't remember. Either way, my point is the same, the Milano chips are at or near the top in all my "categories" I use to evaluate chips for my self...
I'm not in agreeance that a vendor has any less of a duty to be truthful in advertising than a hobbyist would. In my mind the vendor should actually bear more onus to be "truthful" than a hobbyist, after all it's them that has to stand behind what they sell (at least they should) and if somebody thanks they are getting a Paulson like product and a china clay shows up it's the vendor that has to answer the "WTF?" email. I own an auto glass company (small business, very small
), if somebody made their own windshield and marketed it as "unbreakable", yet I knew it wasn't, I wouldn't tell people I had an unbreakable windshield to sell them, I would instead say "Well it's marketed as unbreakable, buuuuuuut here's the real deal...". This is an apples and oranges situation I know, but the point stands that I wouldn't want to advertise something that I knew doesn't mean exactly what it sounds like it means, I would feel a little weird about it. "Oh no, you heard unbreakable windshield? Well what they mean is their brand name is Un Breakable Windshields, not that they are unbreakable...." I'm not shitting on anybody, it is what it is and it came about way before my time. I don't carry a torch for CT, I didn't even post in the PGI thread over there because it seems fruitless to me (for traffic reasons and PGI reasons), but I also don't have the hate that some people have for the site (not in this thread, definitely in many other threads though, usually from the same handful of people).
I like CT. I love PCF. I appreciate all our vendors. But I also have no problem stating my opinion as a business owner and a consumer of poker chips, consequently I think everybody else also has a right to any opinion or anger they may hold... But I do think if you are going to call the whole site into question (or whatever anybody wants to do/think about the situation, not specifically responding to just PZ's comment) because of this particular terminology from Ten, please keep in mind that you should extend that same angst towards any vendor that sells them as such. I love Josh at Apache, had more than a few pleasurable experiences ordering from his site, but this is copy/pasted from there concerning the Pharaohs and is just as wrong as anything posted by Ten imo: Each chip is solid clay and is custom molded just like a Paulson.
Either it's a big deal or it isn't. I am probably more in the "not so big of a deal" camp because the subject in question has never stopped me from perusing either site and wouldn't in the future, but double standards kind of stand out to me and this seems to be a clear case of that.
Oh, and by the way, to the CC flaking questions and personal experience; I have heard that the very first run of Milano chips had flaking issues with the $1s (I think), but for what it's worth I have had a set of Milanos that have seen plenty of play and there is zero flaking. There is a pretty vocal minority that puts Milanos as the worst of the CC chips in most any thread you read, but many many many other people consistently put them at the top of their lists as the best, or one of the best, me included. They might not be the best, everything is subjective, but for anybody who likes the Milanos I say GO for it, they are a VERY solid chip for the money with a beautiful design and for the most part shit on a lot of the other CC chips that are brought up as the best. To put it another way, the Milanos DUMP on the towerandspearcrosshatchedsuperbevel chips, like dump on them after taco and margarita night at the local dive bar kind of dumping on... JMO of course.
Edit to add: in my paragraph above about the Milanos, I'm not sure if the T&S chips had the cross hatching or if it was the CPS (I don't own sets of either), I can't remember. Either way, my point is the same, the Milano chips are at or near the top in all my "categories" I use to evaluate chips for my self...
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