Does anyone have experience buying new Rolex watches? (5 Viewers)

[DirtyTIVA]

I think it’s easiest to fake Rolex’s and other watches that have closed backs. So small laser etching aside (like a Paulson microdot), all that is visible is the texture of the dial and and the finishing on the case and the hour markers.

I used to collect fake watches back in the day. I think it’s pretty cool how close they can get in some instances for the money, but I have also seen some horrible effortless knockoffs that could only fool someone who had never seen the real thing before.

If anyone can “recreate” the following piece I’d pay $10000 for one.

 

[Stufflymcstuff]

it’s amazing how precise the fakes have gotten - you’d have to do a lot of research to recognize the difference. Even watch aficionados aren’t likely to know unless they were to very closely inspect it.

That’s not necessarily an endorsement of fakes but imo there’s a lot of overly optimistic assessments wrt higher end watches as an investment, especially if you buy retail.

they don’t lose their value as aggressively as cars but very few will appreciate / most will depreciate (albeit at a very slow rate) and you’d have to be extremely savvy to predict which ones will overperform. Then you have the retail premium to contend with, the cost of servicing the watch, insurance and/or risk of theft/damage, and most importantly the opportunity cost of having money locked up that could’ve otherwise been doing 5-7% in some capital market.

all things considered I think it would be a good approximation to view it as if you’re “spending” 10%-15% of the watches retail value for every year you own it.

I don’t think I’d ever buy real or fake but I can definitely see scenarios where the fake makes sense (you’re starting off a career in something sales oriented and looking the part matters when dealing with wealthy clients).

 

[Nanook]

The truth of it is that basically no one cares about watches any more. There are very few, if any walks of life/jobs etc where wearing a specific watch is going to get you anything other than an occasional "hey, nice watch"

I have had lots, and I do mean lots, of different watches and I truly think that if you are buying a watch for anything other than for your own enjoyment then you are going to be disappointed.

 

[Darson]

I bought a Breitling Cosmonaute over 10 years ago and while the price has almost doubled in that time, I think it important to mention that the cost to have these serviced is not cheap either. If you have them serviced by the authorized service center, the appreciation is almost all eaten up. Plan on spending $600+ every 3-5 years on a service.

Oh and another thing that I learned the hard way with Breitlings - the price is for the watch; a genuine metal band is over $1k by itself.

 

[joker80]

So you're recommending buying a counterfeit illegal product. Got it.

No different than Chinese poker chip manufacturers producing ARIA cards mold chips and that being endorsed here or the New China Clubs any brand name product. Your watch may get seized on entry to the US but it is only illegal to sell the watch. And obviously I would never sell anything as real. I buy lots of reps from China. Shoes, shirts, hats, jerseys you name it.

What do you pay for when you buy a Rolex? You are paying for the brand, marketing, sports sponsorships etc. What is the actual watch worth, like 1000? Plus with supply and demand resale of some of the luxury items is out of control. Some nike shoes sell for 20 x retail in resale market. Some hype streetwear T shirts will sell for 200-300 retail.

Plus I don't think that people buying rep products actually hurts the company. You can't buy a Rolex even if you want to. As other posters noted you might have to wait a couple years. Nike sells shoe releases out within hours. If anything I would argue that rep products increase demand for original.

I can't imagine buying a 30-40 K watch and wearing it every day. I would be afraid someone would steal it or the wear and tear on it would devalue it. Same thing with a 2K pair of sneakers. I would rather buy the fake and enjoy it more.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

I can't imagine buying a 30-40 K watch and wearing it every day. I would be afraid someone would steal it or the wear and tear on it would devalue it. Same thing with a 2K pair of sneakers. I would rather buy the fake and enjoy it more.

Different strokes for different folks for sure. There are people on this forum that play with chip sets regularly that would make others hesitate to do the same.

To the OP’s original point, it’s tough to get a genuine Rolex right now, particularly a more popular type or finish. “A deal” is certainly impossible to come by. Waiting for a better spot may be prudent but maybe Rolex will just jack up their base prices in the meantime. No matter the cost in time or money to the OP I hope you arrive at acquiring something that brings you commensurate happiness.

 

[Blaster]

 

[Windwalker]

The truth of it is that basically no one cares about watches any more. There are very few, if any walks of life/jobs etc where wearing a specific watch is going to get you anything other than an occasional "hey, nice watch"

I have had lots, and I do mean lots, of different watches and I truly think that if you are buying a watch for anything other than for your own enjoyment then you are going to be disappointed.

I respectfully disagree with that statement. In fact, the demand for high end watches have skyrocketed to the point where most Rolex stores don’t even have inventory anymore. The aftermarket pricing on some watches have risen to astronomical levels.

I think there is an ilk of buyers who exist that absolutely care about watches and look at them as collectibles and essential.

 

[Stufflymcstuff]

Everything seems absurd when you compare people with vastly different purchasing power. You just have to put yourself in other people’s shoes - 10k means almost nothing to most people who are in the market for higher end Rolex’s.

Fwiw, to the op, if you’re serious about buying and are not a baller, it’s worth the effort to find reputable private sellers - emphasis on reputable. And if possible meet in a watch store where they can help you verify authenticity. You will save quite a bit off retail. It also may be worth buying from Canada if you’re close to the border depending on what your import taxes are like (I think there’s a 5% base fee and the rest is state dependent) - from what I’ve read they’re less expensive here than in the US by a bit.

 

[joker80]

I respectfully disagree with that statement. In fact, the demand for high end watches have skyrocketed to the point where most Rolex stores don’t even have inventory anymore. The aftermarket pricing on some watches have risen to astronomical levels.

I think there is an ilk of buyers who exist that absolutely care about watches and look at them as collectibles and essential.

Yeah I think the statement "no one cares about watches" is akin to "no one cares about poker chips and dice chips are just fine". Lots of people care about and collect fine watches

 

[Frogzilla]

I have a hard time visualizing how wearing a high end watch would do good. Id expect to be paranoid walking around with it…seems like a flashing “rob me” sign. Im clumsy enough to get it scratched inevitably. Fake high end watches make even less sense

Maybe I’ll understand one day. Til then, Apple Watch it is

GL with your search sounds like not a buyers market right now

 

[Perthmike]

My opinion, don't waste your money. I can direct you to Chinese reps that are 99.5% the same as a genuine Rolex for 550 USD shipped. PM me if you are interested. Lots of information to be found on Reddit forum r/RepTime. Having said that, investing in a genuine watch is certainly not a money losing proposition.

Post pics if you buy a genuine! They are nice! I would also recommend a Submariner, but a style you like would be the best.

They might look the same, but they won't run the same and they will eventually break. You would be better off going to buy a nice $500 watch from a small brand instead of that garbage.

 

[joker80]

I think the neat thing about high end watches over an Apple watch is the craftmanship. The mechanical movements and the intricacy of the gears, springs and dials is amazing and also the fact that movement drives the watch is interesting. Of course, you can get an automatic movement at a lower price point in say a Seiko or something like that, but the finishing is exquisite and beautiful in some of the higher end watches. Apple watches are cool too though.

 

[Perthmike]

@Jeff I wouldn't bother paying grey market prices, especially for a sub, the prices are silly.

But you are going to have a really hard, almost impossible time trying to find one at retail. I would suggest looking at the explorer 1, yachmaster or maybe an oyster perpetual and seeing if you like any of those, because they will be easier to source.

Either way, you need to go visit some local dealers and basically try to chat them up . Make it a good story and be clear that this is a special purchase for you and with any luck the store might decide you are deserving enough. Keep going in for friendly chit chat and reminding them every so often.

The problem is that there are hundreds of people doing the same thing, that are prepared to spend on other stock to get the model they want. Rolexes have become a commodity now, it's really very strange.

Good luck.

 

[joker80]

They might look the same, but they won't run the same and they will eventually break. You would be better off going to buy a nice $500 watch from a small brand instead of that garbage.

It depends on what movement they are using. Also servicing. Most of them are extremely accurate and just as reliable as a 500$ watch

 

[DirtyTIVA]

It depends on what movement they are using.

It’s guaranteed to be either quartz (cheap but reliable) or a mass produced mechanical movement with no standards or certification. Which isn’t necessarily bad or DOA for the price. You’re just unlikely to pass it on to your kid or something.

 

[gopherblue]

No different than Chinese poker chip manufacturers producing ARIA cards mold chips and that being endorsed here or the New China Clubs any brand name product. Your watch may get seized on entry to the US but it is only illegal to sell the watch. And obviously I would never sell anything as real. I buy lots of reps from China. Shoes, shirts, hats, jerseys you name it.

What do you pay for when you buy a Rolex? You are paying for the brand, marketing, sports sponsorships etc. What is the actual watch worth, like 1000? Plus with supply and demand resale of some of the luxury items is out of control. Some nike shoes sell for 20 x retail in resale market. Some hype streetwear T shirts will sell for 200-300 retail.

Plus I don't think that people buying rep products actually hurts the company. You can't buy a Rolex even if you want to. As other posters noted you might have to wait a couple years. Nike sells shoe releases out within hours. If anything I would argue that rep products increase demand for original.

I can't imagine buying a 30-40 K watch and wearing it every day. I would be afraid someone would steal it or the wear and tear on it would devalue it. Same thing with a 2K pair of sneakers. I would rather buy the fake and enjoy it more.

Your straw man whaddaboutism re China clays is dubious at best. I guess one can rationalize almost anything, eh? Counterfeit goods are counterfeit goods.

 

[Nanook]

I respectfully disagree with that statement. In fact, the demand for high end watches have skyrocketed to the point where most Rolex stores don’t even have inventory anymore. The aftermarket pricing on some watches have risen to astronomical levels.

Demand for high end watches has NOT skyrocketed, in fact the Swiss watch industry has been in decline for decades and continues its decline. The Devil is in the details as they say.....
While it is true that 2021 #'s were up significantly from 2020, they were still lower than pre pandemic 2019 levels.

I think there is an ilk of buyers who exist that absolutely care about watches and look at them as collectibles and essential.

Of course there are people that care about watches, but I stand by my statement compared to what it once was. 50 yrs ago in 1972 probably something like 60% of all american men owned an automatic watch of some sort. The average price was something like 2 weeks salary. Today, I doubt that even 2% of american men under the age of 40 own a watch worth more than $500

Yeah I think the statement "no one cares about watches" is akin to "no one cares about poker chips and dice chips are just fine"......

This is basically what I am talking about and once again I will stand by my statement.. Most people that play poker do not care about what kind of poker chips they use just like most people don't care about watches.

 

[Windwalker]

Demand for high end watches has NOT skyrocketed, in fact the Swiss watch industry has been in decline for decades and continues its decline.

Not sure where you’re getting your data. But by the way — I’m speaking specifically on the demand for luxury watches, not mass-luxury or basic brands.

The stats speak for themselves:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/10/13...s-growth-of-20-billion-secondhand-market.html

https://www.businessoffashion.com/a...ry-watch-craze-by-the-numbers/?outputType=amp

https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/luxury-watch-market

 

[doublebooyah85]

You guys are both right but talking about something different. @Nanook made a general statement. Watches in general on the decline. I feel like there are two markets. Smart watches and top tier luxury. Most people, 99% don’t care about watches we have smartphones.

And to @Windwalker point, the top tier luxury has never been crazier.

And now all watch companies are trying to catch in on the craze…1+ year waiting lists, used going for over new, etc.

It all comes down to supply and demand. Like everything. So now every watch company is coming out with limited edition watches etc

https://www.swatch.com/en-us/bioceramic-moonswatch.html

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Yes.

 

[joker80]

https://www.swatch.com/en-us/bioceramic-moonswatch.html

You guys are both right but talking about something different. @Nanook made a general statement. Watches in general on the decline. I feel like there are two markets. Smart watches and top tier luxury. Most people, 99% don’t care about watches we have smartphones.

And to @Windwalker point, the top tier luxury has never been crazier.

And now all watch companies are trying to catch in on the craze…1+ year waiting lists, used going for over new, etc.

It all comes down to supply and demand. Like everything. So now every watch company is coming out with limited edition watches etc

https://www.swatch.com/en-us/bioceramic-moonswatch.html

I wonder how many watches Apple or fit bit move in a year? If you see someone with a watch these days it is 8 times out of 10 a smart watch. But most people don’t have anything true

 

[Jeff]

Ok. Lol at me thinking I’d be able to waltz into a jewelry store with a wad of money and walk out with a watch. Much less negotiating off list price.

I went into the Jewelry store. He looked me up and down, let me fondle the demo models and took my name. Not much chatty chatty. No watches, no discussion of price. Def no expectations, no promises. I’m a dirty plebe.

 

[surfik]

Luckly my favourite watches are not Rolex..

I love Baume and Mercier

I have second one Hampton Spirit
The one on the bottom was worn by Alain Delon in Le Samurai

 

[surfik]

You may want to check brands like Pita Barcelona and Michael du Mauriac (if you like divers)

 

[Perthmike]

Ok. Lol at me thinking I’d be able to waltz into a jewelry store with a wad of money and walk out with a watch. Much less negotiating off list price.

I went into the Jewelry store. He looked me up and down, let me fondle the demo models and took my name. Not much chatty chatty. No watches, no discussion of price. Def no expectations, no promises. I’m a dirty plebe.

Yeah unfortunately it's a different world now. If you do like the sub, you could also consider a tudor bb58. Less than half the price, same power reserve, almost the same accuracy and has a more vintage style.

 

[CraigT78]

@Perthmike

 

[cpac54]

I bought my wife a Rolex for Christmas this year and honestly, I was just happy to get one without having to wait for it. Most everything I looked at or was interested in came with fairly long lead times. I can’t imagine a popular watch like the Sub being much different at the moment.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

12 years ago during the last financial crisis I scored the watch on the left as my first “working as an adult” watch for like $1300 new. Oris Artelier skeleton. I later got a matching ladies version for my wife for $800 on eBay. To date this watch has generated more interest from the tens of thousands of people I’ve worked with than any other watch I’ve worn. I think it costs a little bit more now but for the money I highly recommend it. It still looks sharp and clean despite almost daily use. The strap has definitely been replaced.

 

[Nanook]

......by the way — I’m speaking specifically on the demand for luxury watches, not mass-luxury or basic brands.

What is your definition of luxury vs mass-luxury? I feel like your definition may be different than others. If you are talking PP & ALS luxury 100k+ watches and that is your definition then I have nothing to say about that.

OP was asking about a Rolex Sub. To most non watch guys that is a luxury watch, but might not be to someone else.

Rolex and other luxury brands have intentionally upped their pricing models to offset the decline in sales. This is common knowledge in the watch collecting world. If you haven't already done so, check out www.watchuseek.com be prepared to go down a really deep rabbit hole though....

You guys are both right but talking about something different. @Nanook made a general statement. Watches in general on the decline. I feel like there are two markets. Smart watches and top tier luxury. Most people, 99% don’t care about watches we have smartphones.......

Mostly this is what I was saying.

Of course there are people that care about watches... I am one of them, but in general most people don't