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How to tell if diamond molds are Paulson? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter BamaT8ter
- Start date
Marius L
4 of a Kind
Yes, post a picture here and I'll tell you.
Theres also other threads on here discussing and showing pictures of the different variants, so the search feature is your friend.
Theres also other threads on here discussing and showing pictures of the different variants, so the search feature is your friend.
OP
OP
BamaT8ter
4 of a Kind
They’re definitely clay. I just can’t tell if they’re of them Todd/Burt/USPC variety, C&J, or Paulson. I thought they were the first, but the weight has me second guessing myself.
Marius L
4 of a Kind
Sorry, my bad. I was thinking your original question was whether they were clay or plastics. These are clay, but you already knew that! I'm gonna try to do some more searching. I do remember reading about the difference between the clay versions, but I can't remember specifically which is which.
GianThaMan
Flush
Those look like they are Burt/ASM Diamond Molds rather than Paulson ones based on the hot-stamp font, colors, mold shine, and general wear patterns. There’s still some uncertainty in that, though.
SiouxperStack
Full House
ceramicmike
Flush
Spotted chips also
Jeff in Iowa
Pair
Those diamond mold chips in the above photos with the grooves are almost definitely Paulson made. That is a signature trait of Paulson, as they used a lathe that leaves those marks, while Burt/ASM/CPC has always used a grinder.
For the @BamaT8ter chips, I would also guess that they are are Burt Co. made, and from the later Christy & Jones era (from between 1952 and 1966) when Burt more commonly used mold cups with larger diamonds. The font on the BVA chip also makes me think it is a Christy & Jones chip. It is not a font that was typically used by Paulson. A long time ago, Howard Herz published a list of commonly used Paulson fonts, and I don't think that BVA font is one of them. Hard to be sure with some of the fonts because only a couple of letters are shown in his publication.
For the @BamaT8ter chips, I would also guess that they are are Burt Co. made, and from the later Christy & Jones era (from between 1952 and 1966) when Burt more commonly used mold cups with larger diamonds. The font on the BVA chip also makes me think it is a Christy & Jones chip. It is not a font that was typically used by Paulson. A long time ago, Howard Herz published a list of commonly used Paulson fonts, and I don't think that BVA font is one of them. Hard to be sure with some of the fonts because only a couple of letters are shown in his publication.
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Starburst hot-stamp belongs to Paulson.
nighthawk1990
Sitting Out
Looks like Paulson to me!
nighthawk1990
Sitting Out
LOL. Thanks goodness the "expert" weighted in. Welcome to PCF @nighthawk1990 .
amen to that
Wheeler Assembly
Flush
You clearly know a LOT more than I do about chips. Can you give me your guess on who made these chips?
Okku
4 of a Kind
Joe Treybal Sporting Goods Company, St. Louis MO. ( 3 balls and a long dash, repeated four times.)
Wheeler Assembly
Flush
Holy cow! You're a damn chip encyclopedia!!
for future reference:
http://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/molddesignindex_site.htm
TRI-BAL (a/k/a 3 DOTS & DASH, and TREY-BALL)
Wheeler Assembly
Flush
You mean to tell me he just has a better understanding of the internet??!! I believe that too!
Jeff in Iowa
Pair
I have a little that I can add. The actual chips were most likely made by the United States Playing Card Co., during the 1930s or early 1940s, and sent to the Joe Treybal Sporting Goods Co. (St. Louis, MO) who owned the mold and hot stamped the chips. A lot of their chips were sold to clients in the Mid-West.
The latest I have seen one of their catalogs dated is 1939, but from what I understand they sold chips several years later than indicated on Eisenstadt's website. They were manufacturing and selling at least some gambling equipment until the factory and store burned down in 1952, and they went out of business. Gene Trimble reported that the Christy Jones Co. bought them out, but Christy Jones never used the Treybal mold (perhaps because the mold itself is a kind of anagram for Joseph Treyball's last name).
According to the ChipGuide, your specific chips were owned by Paul and Beverly Brown, in Sparta Illinois, probably during the 1930s or 1940s. See here; http://cgcm.themogh.org/cg_chip2.php?id=ILSPP1&sort=type
There are no preserved chip order records from the Treybal company, but I believe the ID on your chips was made because the hot stamps on the chips are the same as those on some T. R. King large crown chips, for which there are chip order records.
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Jeff in Iowa
Pair
I dug a bit more into how late Joe Treybal sold chips on his proprietary mold. It may have been as late as 1952. A news article about the 6/15/1952 fire mentions that a large volume of celluloid (for dice) and poker chips fueled the blaze (the relevant paragraphs posted below). Not conclusive, but it could have been those chips.
The USPC Co. transferred many of their molds to the Burt Co. in 1946 or 1947. There is no record of Burt having manufactured chips on the Treybal mold. Burt order cards, however, from that time period were destroyed in a 1954 factory fire. There is a 1962 document that list "Treyball" as one of the molds in their possession, so it was apparently transferred to Burt by USPC in 1946/47. It is possible, I suppose that Burt could have briefly made chips on the mold (1947-1952). I don't know however, of any Treybal chips that are dated that late.
The USPC Co. transferred many of their molds to the Burt Co. in 1946 or 1947. There is no record of Burt having manufactured chips on the Treybal mold. Burt order cards, however, from that time period were destroyed in a 1954 factory fire. There is a 1962 document that list "Treyball" as one of the molds in their possession, so it was apparently transferred to Burt by USPC in 1946/47. It is possible, I suppose that Burt could have briefly made chips on the mold (1947-1952). I don't know however, of any Treybal chips that are dated that late.
GianThaMan
Flush
Most definitely Paulson.
Ben8257
Royal Flush
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For the record every single one of your posts I have ever seen have been absolutely amazing. Just stopped by to ask if the house next door to you is available for purchase? Lol
Absolutely amazing wealth of chipping knowledge sir! To think we have members with thousands of post about nothing more than stupidly funny crap memes.
I for one have never hit the "follow" button on another member, decided you are absolutely worthy of the honor Mr. Jeff! This forum is lucky to have you! I find myself very intrigued in what it is you have in the chipping cabinet!
Now if we can get @BGinGA @JWC @TRKingChips , Armin, Mr. Butch @leo822 , @PAZ ,and @RainmanTrail to move in... damn what plethora of amazing chipping knowledge we would have!
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Yes, I concur. The debossed diamonds on a true Paulson clay will look like a traditional card-printed diamond, which is a parallelogram, height noticeably greater than width. Plastic Super Diamonds which can range from the vintage type (surprisingly nice to play with, better than most CC's I've handled) to the more modern stuff (which is very cheap plastic) look more like rotated squares.
Of course, they will feel quite different, as any compression clay vs. plastic chip will feel.
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