My thoughts after trying out 7 CPC molds (2 Viewers)

redwine

redwine

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Alright, need to place an order for a CPC set and I don't have much experience with CPC molds, so I reach out to Spragg to ask what he's got on hand for the molds I'm looking for. Three days later, these arrive in my mailbox:
1638327181523.png

Some are a little hard to see... Clockwise from top-left: Lcrown, CSQ, A-mold (not interested in these, but I got a color sample so might as well), Leaded THC (for control), jockey, HHR, DIASQR (md-50), Scrown.

I specifically asked for inlaid samples as I didn't want that affecting my evaluation of the chips. In retrospect, I wish I had also asked for all weighted colors, as I have a nagging suspicion unweighted vs unweighted affects sound and feel. Oh well.

Going into this experiment, only having handled scrown chips before, my rankings based on looks probably looked like:

Code: 
Scrown > Lcrown > DIASQR = CSQ > HHR >>> jockey

I got the jockey mainly because several forum members claimed them to be really good feeling. Ok, let's give them a try... but they are really not visually appealing at all.

Since I got these, I've been riffling/shuffling/clacking these chips at my desk (WFH) for a few weeks. I am at a point where I can most of the time identify almost all the molds in a blind test Here are my thoughts:

(disclaimer: these are just my personal opinions. they may be different from yours and other forum members'. use proper judgment and obtain samples yourself before making important decisions)
Scrown: My favorite based on looks going into this experiment. Unfortunately, they were by far my least favorite mold in the sound and feels department. Shuffling was decent. They have this somewhat unpleasant clack sound that sounds like two flat surfaces crashing into one another, and felt less substantial than the other molds. Also, when I am "slinky-ing" the chips, I felt like there was a greater probability of chips sticking together (or feeling like they did). Overall, very disappointed that was my least favorite mold for sound.

LCrown: First thing I noticed is that visually, the dashes are prominent while the crowns are not. This is physically true as well, with the dashes being deep and the crown imprints shallow. When looking at it casually, I notice the dashes much more than the crowns themselves, which I feel like detracts from the mold a bit. Also, despite being an "outer-ring" mold, the outer ring of the Lcrown is much shallower than the outer ring of other molds that have such rings. This is the only mold that I noticed that for. Theoretically, that probably makes it sit somewhere between an "outer-ring mold" and a "non-outer ring mold", as it is generally accepted that the outer ring improves feel and sound.

As for sound, the lcrown was the mold I felt most neutral about. Sounds okay. Sometimes it sounds like scrown (yuck), but sometimes it sounds like HHR (nice). Feels a little light. No real strong feelings in either direction.

Update: I received regular (weighted) lcrown samples. With these, the sound is much better.

Jockey: For sound and feel, this mold is the stone cold nuts among the CPC molds. Texture is rough and nice. Shuffle is hard at first but breaks in quickly. I am actually really upset I tried the jockey mold, because now all the other molds sound like shit. If I end up buying on a different mold, I know I will always have this nagging feeling in the back of my mind there is a better mold out there. The clacks have this timbre to them that is pleasant, penetrating, and at the perfect pitch. There is also a second very subtle dimension to the sound that I can only best describe as "the sound that a coin makes when it 'dances' after being spun, right before it stops and falls flat". Fantastic mold.

As a side note, I have now asked two people who knew nothing about chips what they thought the "jockey" resembled. One person said a skier, the other said a guy dancing.:ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

Update: The only update I have on jockey is that the chip gets very dirty very fast (probably due to texture). Take a look at these two chips:
1640574629953.png

I picked these specific chips because they both share the same base color (DG arc yellow) and so you can more fairly assess how much dirtier the jockey is. They have had about the same amount of handling. Take a look at how much darker the outer rim of the jockey is.

DIASQR: Sounds heavy. I would describe the pitch as lower than all the other molds, with the slightest hint of hollowy-ness. Feels heavy, but not necessarily more pleasant. Shuffles ok. Amongst all the molds, I also felt this one had the greatest variance in sound depending on how the chips were positioned in my hand and the angle/height that I dropped from. All in all, a good feeling mold.

CSQ: This one has a sound that is higher pitched than DIASQR and jockey, but still pleasant. Somewhat ceramic-like? The sound lacks that extra penetration that those two molds have, so it loses a few points in my book. Also, the CSQ mold markings are very prominent and busy-looking in person, much more than expected. Shuffles very nicely, even when brand new.

HHR: Very similar sound to CSQ all-around. The CSQ-HHR pair is one I get mixed up the most frequently in blind testing.

Unfortunately, none of these molds, not even jockey, comes close to the sound, feel, and weight of the leaded THC chips. The chips are just SO much heavier, the sound SO much richer, than anything CPC has to offer. The sound/feel difference between leaded THC and jockey is more than the difference between jockey and scrown. Comparing jockey to leaded THCs reminded me of that one time in middle school when my friends and I were dominating in playground pickup basketball, and then a bunch of high-schoolers showed up and took our lunch money.


Hopefully this information might be helpful to someone out there. But don't let it be a substitute for getting your own samples! As for my own CPC set, this experiment has really thrown a wrench into what mold I want to build on. Some tough choices ahead!
 
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I read your code as logic not progression, so I was very confused by the first paragraph of reviews when you said scrowns was your least favorite.
 
redwine said:
Unfortunately, none of these molds, not even jockey, comes close to the sound, feel, and weight of the leaded THC chips.
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That's because you're making an unfair comparison. You can't order leaded THCs, so why torture yourself with the comparison? If you want to feel good about your decision, compare the CPCs to unleaded RHCs. (Can't order those either, of course, but since you can buy mint ones for similar prices as CPCs, it seems fair.)
But cool writeup. I haven't handled the CPC small crowns or large crowns, but I wouldn't argue with anything you said about the other four molds.
 
LotsOfChips said:
If you have an A mold sample set, why not include a rating of that as well? You aren't interested, but others may be! :sneaky:
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Just saw this comment. I will include my notes now.

The reason I omitted A-mold is because these chips sounded and felt so differently from the others that I felt it must either be due to 1. lack of inlay, 2. the warping caused by the hotstamping (these chips are noticeably warped and wobbly, whereas none of the other chips are). The A-mold chips were very slippery (actually, I think the culprit were a few chips that made the whole barrel feel slippery), and the sound was extremely dull and monotone, with no "crispness" in the clacks at all. The A-molds were the most easily identifiable chip in a blind mold test, and they were by far my least favorite. I feel like this has to be because they are hotstamped color-samples more than anything else, so I will stop short of saying that the A-mold sucks.

The more interesting test I did was to take a stack of weighted A-mold color samples and compare them vs unweighted (dayglo/retro) color samples to compare the sound and feel. The difference is there, but it is very slight and negligible compared to the effect of the mold. For sound, the weighteds have a deeper sound to them and a mildly better clack. For weight, I cannot tell them apart.
 
FDL for the win.
But to be fair, you really need to break in those chips until they have a great feel. My personal belief is that is especially true of HHR and A-Mold. To get a feel of how they act when broken in you could get some 2000 grit sandpaper and give them a light rub. Night and day difference.
 
Quicksilver-75 said:
FDL for the win.
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But that’s a minority opinion, right?

I think this is a great conversation. We spend a lot more time debating which plastic card is best than which CPC mold, and that’s a little crazy.
Personally, I’m not sure. I’ve played with jockey molds and Hhr and they’re both great. I’ve handled plenty of sample stacks, but FDL isn’t one of them. And I only ask, because I feel like I’ve read a lot of FDL mold hate. But maybe I’m wrong. Or maybe I’ve been listening to maniacs.
For my useless 2 cents, the Elephant and Crown mold is the one that intrigues me most. I’ve only handled samples - never played actual poker with them, but I’d love to hear from people who have.
 
When trying to recreate THC in CPC molds, nothing compares to Jockey. As for looks, I mean, what does a top hat and cane hove to do with poker. :LOL: :laugh:
 
upNdown said:
But that’s a minority opinion, right?

I think this is a great conversation. We spend a lot more time debating which plastic card is best than which CPC mold, and that’s a little crazy.
Personally, I’m not sure. I’ve played with jockey molds and Hhr and they’re both great. I’ve handled plenty of sample stacks, but FDL isn’t one of them. And I only ask, because I feel like I’ve read a lot of FDL mold hate. But maybe I’m wrong. Or maybe I’ve been listening to maniacs.
For my useless 2 cents, the Elephant and Crown mold is the one that intrigues me most. I’ve only handled samples - never played actual poker with them, but I’d love to hear from people who have.
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I’d imagine it is for a few reasons other than feel. Most don’t like the 1 1/16” inlay, some probably don’t like the glossy inlay. Even the mold itself kind of makes it region specific unless your design uses a peeled banana in it. But as far as I’m concerned, a broken in FDL very closely approximates the feel of a RHC chip.
 
allforcharity said:
If you are having custom chips made, then yours is the only opinion that matters. Get the mold that plays best with your criteria and thematically matches with your design. We just want to see the process.
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I’m a firm believer in matching the mold to the theme for CPC sets which is what I’ve done. Certainly not right or wrong and I know many disagree. I just know when I’m drinking and playing cards with my buddies, nobody really cares what mold the chips are on. Most probably won’t even notice the mold. But to me, when creating a CPC set, I want it to be a work of art which is exactly what it is. So to me, the look/theme is what matters which is why I match the mold to the theme.
 
chipinla said:
I’m a firm believer in matching the mold to the theme for CPC sets which is what I’ve done. Certainly not right or wrong and I know many disagree. I just know when I’m drinking and playing cards with my buddies, nobody really cares what mold the chips are on. Most probably won’t even notice the mold. But to me, when creating a CPC set, I want it to be a work of art which is exactly what it is. So to me, the look/theme is what matters which is why I match the mold to the theme.
Click to expand...
I feel the same way. This is what's probably gonna have me go for something other than jockey. This is also what's probably gonna have me make a second set on jockey down the line for more $$.
 
chipinla said:
I’m a firm believer in matching the mold to the theme for CPC sets which is what I’ve done. Certainly not right or wrong and I know many disagree. I just know when I’m drinking and playing cards with my buddies, nobody really cares what mold the chips are on. Most probably won’t even notice the mold. But to me, when creating a CPC set, I want it to be a work of art which is exactly what it is. So to me, the look/theme is what matters which is why I match the mold to the theme.
Click to expand...
I played at baltimore horseshoe frequently before getting into chips. They have a mix of THC ($1, snapper) and RHC (everything else). For the longest time, I had a very vague sense that the $1 chip was different than the others, but never cared enough to be able to pinpoint why that was the case. Despite the inlays being smaller and the mold being so much more prominent on the $1 and playing with these chips every week, I failed to mentally recognize that these chips had a different mold until I joined this site years later.

So yeah, I would say for the average person, unless you are really observant, no one notices the mold.
 
redwine said:
Hopefully this information might be helpful to someone out there.
Click to expand...
I enjoy your insights, but really this is all just conjecture ...

You need to take it to the next level, I need you to provide samples of 'your' claims. I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm just say'n there are people out there that don't!

I need you to buy a RE20 or sm7b, setup sound dampening in a clean room, and walk through the scientific method, repeating every test on each mold, evaluating them in an audio application showing the frequencies per mold. The burden of proof demands it! you can also provide sound clips of each mold a secondary output just in case other want to validate your assertions.


Holding my breath ...

I enjoyed the post :cool
 
One update:

I got a sample of 10 lcrowns that were weighted, for the specific purpose of comparing them against the 10 unweighted lcrowns that I already had. And boy, did this make a difference. The weighted chips are significantly more substantial in feel and sound despite only weighing an extra .4 grams per chip. The weighted lcrowns are very similar to DSQ, whereas the closest comp of unweighted lcrowns is probably scrown.

The result of this test was surprising; I had done a similar comparison of unweighted/weighted chips using the A-mold hotstamped color samples I had (separating out dayglo colors vs weighted), and in that comparison there was only a subtle difference between weighted vs unweighted. In comparison, the two sets of lcrowns feel like two completely different molds. Perhaps the conclusion is that the difference between weighted/unweighted chips varies among different molds.
 
Just to wrap this up: I ended up placing an order with the CSQ mold.

I had a lot of trouble finalizing which mold I wanted. I waffled back and forth between diamond-square, large crown, and jockey for over a month. I ended up listing out all the factors I cared about and how much I cared about them, which looked like this:
1640626765935.png


A process like this is never perfect because of human imprecision and subjectivity. And we can sit here and nitpick the individual scores that go into it, but that's not really the point. When I did this, the thing that really stuck out to me was how much of an all-around solid mold CSQ was, despite me never having even considered it as a choice. That led me to mocking it up, handling the mold a bunch, and eventually falling in love with the mold.

To be honest, I'm still not sure I made the right decision. But the mold choice is probably THE most important choice in the customs CPC process, and it definitely was helpful to have a lot of time to think about it.
 
redwine said:
Just to wrap this up: I ended up placing an order with the CSQ mold.

I had a lot of trouble finalizing which mold I wanted. I waffled back and forth between diamond-square, large crown, and jockey for over a month. I ended up listing out all the factors I cared about and how much I cared about them, which looked like this:
View attachment 836077

A process like this is never perfect because of human imprecision and subjectivity. And we can sit here and nitpick the individual scores that go into it, but that's not really the point. When I did this, the thing that really stuck out to me was how much of an all-around solid mold CSQ was, despite me never having even considered it as a choice. That led me to mocking it up, handling the mold a bunch, and eventually falling in love with the mold.

To be honest, I'm still not sure I made the right decision. But the mold choice is probably THE most important choice in the customs CPC process, and it definitely was helpful to have a lot of time to think about it.
Click to expand...

Awesome. Congrats! Honestly this is not where I expected this thread to end up.

For me CSQ was an easy choice for my sets. It wasn't even really a decision. I temporarily tinkered with the idea of an S-crown set because of the history. But after I owned a TRK set briefly I didn't feel the need to go this direction. But I also understand why people choose the other molds.

I will say that one of the most common complaints that I see about CSQ is something along the lines of "the design of the mold is too busy". Whereas to me the "design" is more of a texture than a "design". It is very neutral while still being aesthetically pleasing. It looks busier on a screen blown up, but in my hand it just feels more like a deep texture which also happens to give it some grip without being super textured like Amold or E&C which tend to get very dirty quickly. I think perhaps the mold depth isn't as great or the impression edges aren't as severe as some of the other molds.

No ragrats.
 
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I want to add something I think is interesting. The texture of the different molds affect how you see the colors. I've only compare CSQ, H-mold, Horesehead, A-mold and Jockey. I prefer the colors in CSQ and Horsehead (at least for my set), although H-mold is a very good option if you want a retro look. Just my opinion, anything scientist.
 
JeepologyOffroad said:
Honestly, this is pretty much how I ended up at CSQ as well. It’s (subjectively) not the absolute best at anything but it does everything pretty damn good.
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Also, for this reason I bet you’ll question your decision a few times while you wait. I know I did… but I know it was the right choice
 
CarlosStorm said:
I want to add something I think is interesting. The texture of the different molds affect how you see the colors. I've only compare CSQ, H-mold, Horesehead, A-mold and Jockey. I prefer the colors in CSQ and Horsehead (at least for my set), although H-mold is a very good option if you want a retro look. Just my opinion, anything scientist.
Click to expand...
Finally. I’m not crazy. It’s part of what personally deterred me from diasq
 

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