Chippy McChiperson
4 of a Kind
Is that a free stream, or will we have to sign up to PokerGo to watch?
Windwalker on Hustler Casino Live?!?!?!?!?!? (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bill_Man618
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JScott
Flush
I don’t know man after playing against Garrett I wouldn’t be concerned about anybody else. This may be controversial but I consider him the best cash player out there.
Unpopular opinion time: We often idolize guys like Phil Ivy but he’s just not as good comparatively these days. G-man is the best cash player out there.
Unpopular opinion time: We often idolize guys like Phil Ivy but he’s just not as good comparatively these days. G-man is the best cash player out there.
I agree w this 100%. Garrett is a beast.
Kain8
Flush
Garrett is the Godking of cash. If you can hang with him (read: stay the HELL out of his way for the most part) it can only get easier from there.
Have to agree with the consensus. The lineup faced with Ivey, Dwan, Garrett, Burkey, and Gal a couple of weeks ago was a murderers row of a lineup. For as much shit as I give Gal even, he's a much better player right now than anyone that's going to sit down on HSP.
Kain8
Flush
Having a range wider than Madonna's legs does not mean you're a good player.
And that's what I give him crap for. He makes hero calls and bets that he had no business making and he sucks out unbelievably sometimes. That said, he's very good about playing in position and adjusting his strategy based on his opponents.
CrazyEddie
Full House
buzzmonkey
Flush
Instead of Care Bear Stare, do we do the Krish Fish Wish?
Garret makes some great reads, I’ll agree with that. His over all play is no better than I’ve seen in some strong $2/$5 games. Only difference is the stakes.
Andy is superior as a player to Garret IMO. If you really want to learn something a little more than solid ABC poker, Andy is the guy to watch
You're not wrong, but he's prone to tilt and bad play as soon as he gets sucked out on once. Garrett makes some of the best live reads that I've ever seen. His fold against kings to Andy's aces a few weeks back was unbelievable. I'm still in shock that he folded that hand.
What makes Andy great, and Gal great as well is their ability to smell blood in the water and change up their strategy to exploit and get more value out of weaker players. Andy plays a tighter range than the others but he and Garrett and Gal all play pretty similarly. Hardly ever do you see these guys tangle with each other. They can only play this strategy and get away with it because each of them buy in to cover the rest of the table outside of each other. How they play is much harder to make a profit off of with a shorter stack.
Kain8
Flush
Stufflymcstuff
Flush
Always struck me as strange when people try to rank top live players. Since you can never empirically prove what the best/right play is or quantify how much better it is than another it seems like ranking players almost requires that you think you’re on or above their level. This is much less true of online games in tough lineups because solvers can tell us when someone is making a big mistake in retrospect which may not be obvious in real time, but being the best at live poker is about making reads against players that are doing some wonky shit where there is no demonstrably correct answer, where it would take a monstrous sample size to carry any signifance based on results.
Of course there are some really big mistakes that we could spot with ease but top players just don’t make big mistakes and Judging a hero call/fold or a big bluff is much more difficult - even when you’re right, it doesn’t mean it was good. And even if it is good it may only be slightly better than the alternative.
“What makes Andy great, and Gal great as well is their ability to smell blood in the water and change up their strategy to exploit and get more value out of weaker players. Andy plays a tighter range than the others but he and Garrett and Gal all play pretty similarly. Hardly ever do you see these guys tangle with each other. They can only play this strategy and get away with it because each of them buy in to cover the rest of the table outside of each other. How they play is much harder to make a profit off of with a shorter stack.”
Gal is a table mark make no mistake about it. There is zero chance his money is from poker. He’s not bad but there’s a massive difference between him and all the other actual pros. He’s way better than the mickeys of the world but that’s not saying much. And even then Mickey shows great instincts at times. But recognizing when someone is weak and/or you have a range advantage is a small piece of the bigger picture.
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JScott
Flush
Unless those are streamed 2/5 games it’s kind of hard to compare. The benefit we get watching live play is we see their hole cards and the sick moves. The stakes are part of what make it fantastic I agree.
So we can’t rate live players but you can?
Stufflymcstuff
Flush
I said it’s strange to try and rank top players because ranking them almost requires you to feel you’re at or above their level. Gal is bad enough that I feel pretty comfortable saying he’s worse than andy, garret, art, me, 90% of grinders I’ve ever interacted with, half the forum, etc.
I would not feel remotely confident ranking the people I consider to be strong regs though.
I would not feel remotely confident ranking the people I consider to be strong regs though.
TheDuke
Full House
So we can’t rate live players but you can?
Haha - it's hard to take anything he writes seriously.
He's apparently a baller high level poker stud but he was busting my balls a few months ago trying to save $3 on shipping for one of my classified sales.
Stufflymcstuff
Flush
never claimed to be a baller or an elite player.
but for the record, and maybe this is a bit anal but if you're going to call me out for it, let's actually look at the message in question:
"(if) the flat rate box is convenient for you / you already have them that's definitely ok but i think canada posts rates for small parcels (by weight) is something like 15. it's really not worth inconveniencing yourself but if you already have spare boxes handy might as well."
please accept my sincerest apologies for being so mean.
i know $3.50 sounds petty when you only do 5 transactions a year on a poker chip site, but when you ship out / receive a few thousand items a year you'd be a fool not to get in the habit of saving $3.50 for what amounts to less than 10 seconds of work. hard to find a better hourly than that.
much in the same way that if you only play poker once or twice a month, decisions may seem inconsequential relative to the numbers that're being thrown around but if you've spent any meaningful amount of time/effort playing poker for profit you learn pretty quickly that your success lives and dies on small decisions, and it becomes a lot more clear how to evaluate what makes a decision good or bad.
i'm guessing almost everyone here would feel confident saying mickey is crap. why? because he's constantly punting in ways that almost anyone who isn't a rank amateur can easily recognize and so most people here are pretty confident saying he's shit. if you were to ask people who've spent at least a few years exclusively grinding, you'll find an overwhelming consensus that gal is quite bad. it's really that simple.
and if you were to ask the truly elite players (and i'm not good enough to recognize who they are with any confidence) they'll likely be able to spot things that lesser players like me are doing wrong that makes it clear i'm not in their 'league' so to speak.
but for the record, and maybe this is a bit anal but if you're going to call me out for it, let's actually look at the message in question:
"(if) the flat rate box is convenient for you / you already have them that's definitely ok but i think canada posts rates for small parcels (by weight) is something like 15. it's really not worth inconveniencing yourself but if you already have spare boxes handy might as well."
please accept my sincerest apologies for being so mean.
i know $3.50 sounds petty when you only do 5 transactions a year on a poker chip site, but when you ship out / receive a few thousand items a year you'd be a fool not to get in the habit of saving $3.50 for what amounts to less than 10 seconds of work. hard to find a better hourly than that.
much in the same way that if you only play poker once or twice a month, decisions may seem inconsequential relative to the numbers that're being thrown around but if you've spent any meaningful amount of time/effort playing poker for profit you learn pretty quickly that your success lives and dies on small decisions, and it becomes a lot more clear how to evaluate what makes a decision good or bad.
i'm guessing almost everyone here would feel confident saying mickey is crap. why? because he's constantly punting in ways that almost anyone who isn't a rank amateur can easily recognize and so most people here are pretty confident saying he's shit. if you were to ask people who've spent at least a few years exclusively grinding, you'll find an overwhelming consensus that gal is quite bad. it's really that simple.
and if you were to ask the truly elite players (and i'm not good enough to recognize who they are with any confidence) they'll likely be able to spot things that lesser players like me are doing wrong that makes it clear i'm not in their 'league' so to speak.
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JScott
Flush
I don’t want to get into whatever argument you two are having, I just think it’s silly to say we can’t rank the players. It’s like sports, it’s so hard to be objectively correct, but that’s not the point here. It’s a fun observation that affects none of us here, except maybe Krish if he plays pots against them.
Garret is a great player, I think he’s better than most of the old time greats considering the evolution of the game. He’s also entertaining to watch. Andy used to be better but in the last year Garret is putting Andy in more tough spots. Saying he’s no better than a $2/$5 player is silly imo, but that’s Tuna’s opinion. Gal has a couple of bad nights and he’s terrible? I’ve been watching that guy for years on LATB and he’s very good.
I’m well aware I’m not at the level these guys are, but just because I’m no NHL’er doesn’t mean we can’t tell the 1st liners from the 4th.
Garret is a great player, I think he’s better than most of the old time greats considering the evolution of the game. He’s also entertaining to watch. Andy used to be better but in the last year Garret is putting Andy in more tough spots. Saying he’s no better than a $2/$5 player is silly imo, but that’s Tuna’s opinion. Gal has a couple of bad nights and he’s terrible? I’ve been watching that guy for years on LATB and he’s very good.
I’m well aware I’m not at the level these guys are, but just because I’m no NHL’er doesn’t mean we can’t tell the 1st liners from the 4th.
AlbinoDragon
Flush
HSP is PokerGo. Also, edited shows, so no "live" stream either.
i can't tell the 1st liners from the 4th without seeing stats tbh, and we don't have those for these poker players. all of this debating is in good fun if you ask me, just like i think lebron could wipe MJ off the floor but does anyone really think i know what i'm talking about? also at any level of poker game, a person might be making critical mistakes or play less than optimal but i'm sure we all know players like this that also have incredible win rates because they do some things really well. i personally think berkey could KICK GMANS ASS
Stufflymcstuff
Flush
feel free to join in any argument you want. you can shit on me too if you want, just be prepared for a long winded response.
we could definitely reasonably disagree about whether gal is good or not in the sense that it depends on what you mean by good. he's definitely not the worst player in the game. but let's put it this way - if the table was 4 handed with garret, andy, art and gal - there is only one player where, if they decided to call it a night, the rest would also get up. do i know this with 100% certainty? no. but i've been at many short handed tables for many hundreds of thousands of hands where there's 1 player who plays like gal, and the second they leave everyone sits out.
my original post was about trying to rank durrr vs jungleman vs garret vs ivey. even i would never be so arrogant as to think i could rank them.
JScott
Flush
Well, I’m arrogant enough to think I could rank them. ;$feel free to join in any argument you want. you can shit on me too if you want, just be prepared for a long winded response.
we could definitely reasonably disagree about whether gal is good or not in the sense that it depends on what you mean by good. he's definitely not the worst player in the game. but let's put it this way - if the table was 4 handed with garret, andy, art and gal - there is only one player where, if they decided to call it a night, the rest would also get up. do i know this with 100% certainty? no. but i've been at many short handed tables for many hundreds of thousands of hands where there's 1 player who plays like gal, and the second they leave everyone sits out.
my original post was about trying to rank durrr vs jungleman vs garret vs ivey. even i would never be so arrogant as to think i could rank them.
Chippy McChiperson
4 of a Kind
feel free to join in any argument you want. you can shit on me too if you want, just be prepared for a long winded response.
we could definitely reasonably disagree about whether gal is good or not in the sense that it depends on what you mean by good. he's definitely not the worst player in the game. but let's put it this way - if the table was 4 handed with garret, andy, art and gal - there is only one player where, if they decided to call it a night, the rest would also get up. do i know this with 100% certainty? no. but i've been at many short handed tables for many hundreds of thousands of hands where there's 1 player who plays like gal, and the second they leave everyone sits out.
my original post was about trying to rank durrr vs jungleman vs garret vs ivey. even i would never be so arrogant as to think i could rank them.
Accidentally replied lol, so I guess I'll put my 2 cents in. Garrett> Andy>Gal, but the gap between Andy and Gal is narrower than the gap between Garrett and Andy (especially when Andy is drinking)
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Saying he’s no better than a $2/$5 player is silly imo, but that’s Tuna’s opinion.
@JScott,
Have you ever played $2/$5 in Atlantic City? It’s not hundred thousand dollar buy ins or a live stream on You-Tube but it is some pretty stiff competition.
Being a successful player is different for everyone. If a regular $2/$5 player makes enough at the tables to support his/her lifestyle while continuing to build a bankroll, the only difference I see is maybe Garret has a nicer watch and drives a more expensive car?
I don’t have any dog in this discussion, could really care less about Garret, Gal or Andy. My point is, just because you play for large sums of cash doesn’t make you any more talented than a successful $2/$5 player.
As far as rankings go, that also is going to mostly hinge on ones definition of success. Opinions will always vary.
@JScott,
Have you ever played $2/$5 in Atlantic City? It’s not hundred thousand dollar buy ins or a live stream on You-Tube but it is some pretty stiff competition.
Being a successful player is different for everyone. If a regular $2/$5 player makes enough at the tables to support his/her lifestyle while continuing to build a bankroll, the only difference I see is maybe Garret has a nicer watch and drives a more expensive car?
I don’t have any dog in this discussion, could really care less about Garret, Gal or Andy. My point is, just because you play for large sums of cash doesn’t make you any more talented than a successful $2/$5 player.
As far as rankings go, that also is going to mostly hinge on ones definition of success. Opinions will always vary.
When GTO stood for something cool and powerful and got better mileage than most card players will ever get out of today's GTO.
what about this GTO? (my personal GTO
)
12thMan
Full House
Love it. Wheels are sick, too.
Tommy commissioned me and Krish now has two PCF hats to wear (the left two).
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