Tourney Blinds for late arrivals? (1 Viewer)

[vanislander]

I'm hosting a T2000 starting stack tourney this weekend. 8-9 players. One of the players will be 1.5-2hrs late. Should I post small/big blinds from his stack until he arrives?

Background: $20 buy in, Friendly game, still building a regular roster, most of the group is relatively new to poker. Blinds start at 5-10. Will be 30-60 at the 2hr mark. I don't have a cut off time for rebuys, blinds up every 20mins and eventually make rebuy impractical.

Player told me to blind him in, though my initial reaction was to not. In the back of my mind I fear if he doesn't end up showing up, we ll have dusted a buy in worth of chips into random pots.

 

[pltrgyst]

Player told me to blind him in, though my initial reaction was to not. In the back of my mind I fear if he doesn't end up showing up, we ll have dusted a buy in worth of chips into random pots.

That player is right. And it's a tournament -- the extra chips won't matter at all.

 

[upNdown]

I'm hosting a T2000 starting stack tourney this weekend. 8-9 players. One of the players will be 1.5-2hrs late. Should I post small/big blinds from his stack until he arrives?

Background: $20 buy in, Friendly game, still building a regular roster, most of the group is relatively new to poker. Blinds start at 5-10. Will be 30-60 at the 2hr mark. I don't have a cut off time for rebuys, blinds up every 20mins and eventually make rebuy impractical.

Player told me to blind him in, though my initial reaction was to not. In the back of my mind I fear if he doesn't end up showing up, we ll have dusted a buy in worth of chips into random pots.

My experience in “real” tournaments says that while blinding off stacks used to be standard, it isn’t standard any more.
So no, I’d say don’t blind him off. Because they don’t do that anymore, anywhere I play.
If anybody complains that he gets an advantage by coming in with a full stack, explain to them that he’s paying the same as everybody else, but he’s starting with fewer big blinds than everybody else did. Then tell them to stop whining, and suggest that they play better.

 

[Chris Manzoni]

Your stack goes into play when you do, is now the standard. That said, I still blind off late players in my home game and it seems to work to keep them on time...

 

[MatthewTreeTree]

Player told me to blind him in

Keep this man around! He sounds like the type of guy who is willing to call out a cheater/mistakes! He's there for the purity of the game.

*Can't really speak on the tourney aspect*

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

I had a similar exp. last Friday.
- 8 players tournament
- 20.000 starting stacks on starting blinds 25-50
- Freezeout
- 1 player late arrival

What I did :
- Every player arrived on time got a 10% bonus
- Not blind off that player

This players told in advance he'd arrive at level 3. I calculated he'd loose +/- 525 chips.

So my late player was more penalized by not getting the bonus over being blinded off.

It seemed fair to everyone in the end.

 

[LeLe]

My experience in “real” tournaments says that while blinding off stacks used to be standard, it isn’t standard any more.
So no, I’d say don’t blind him off. Because they don’t do that anymore, anywhere I play.
If anybody complains that he gets an advantage by coming in with a full stack, explain to them that he’s paying the same as everybody else, but he’s starting with fewer big blinds than everybody else did. Then tell them to stop whining, and suggest that they play better.

Interesting I always though they be blind off as I not a tourney player myself.

I think it must be because to reduce chances of people from Collating in the same table

 

[OfficerLovejoy]

Interesting I always though they be blind off as I not a tourney player myself.

I think it must be because to reduce chances of people from Collating in the same table

I think this became the norm when late registering was introduced.
Why should some players be blinded down who are stuck in traffic when others could just late reg at lvl 6 and get a fresh stack?

For a home game I think it's ok as well if the player announces that he'll be late a day or two ahead to not blind him down.
If he just isn't on time and shows up half an hour late, I think it's perfectly fine to have his stack enter the mix at tourney start.

 

[LeLe]

I think it make sense for tournament with multi flight

 

[SlowPokeTony]

Don’t blind off a late reg player. A lot of home games will offer a 5-10% on time bonus, do that if you want. But anyone just sitting down should be sitting with a full starting stack.

 

[buzzmonkey]

You put a dead stack on the table and the player to their right gets an added advantage, albeit a small one early on, since they get two opportunities to walk in the blinds instead of one.

 

[OfficerLovejoy]

You put a dead stack on the table and the player to their right gets an added advantage, albeit a small one early on, since they get two opportunities to walk in the blinds instead of one.

Personally im attacking the blinds constantly if I have only one person to go through. Might also be a disadvantage.

 

[grebe]

I voted for "blind me in" because this is me....I love poker but it is not my top priority in life. I know this makes me at best a B-list guy on the home game circuit, and I do everything I can to make up for my tardiness or ""flakiness" when it comes to my attendance by being accommodating to the host. I tell my host that I will be late, but he can blind me out until I arrive so that it locks up my seat and I guarantee him that I will arrive when I can.

All that being said, I like the late registration just doesn't get the bonus argument as well....even though I personally think that the late registration stuff has gone way too far.

In summary, as the late guy or that last guy on your call list for a game, I am good with whatever you decide, and thanks for having me at your home.

 

[SlowPokeTony]

I tell my host that I will be late, but he can blind me out until I arrive so that it locks up my seat and I guarantee him that I will arrive when I can.

In this case I agree with being blinded off. If it’s a popular game and you want to reserve a seat then that’s fair. I’m used to holding an 8 max tournament that rarely fills up so we’ll have full stacks ready for any late comers until rebuys end after 2 hours. Never had a situation where someone wants to hold a seat for themselves.

 

[Eloe2000]

Interesting. When I researched this question over two years ago on the forum here it definitely seemed like the consensus was to blind off an expected late arrival. So we implemented that as a written rule for our tournaments. Coincidentally we played our first tournament in 18 months last week and this question came up and we blinded them out through something like L4.

It’s certainly much easier not to blind them out and there is always the chance that a late arrival turns into a no show.

FWIW we also do a 1K on time bonus on top of the 10K starting stack.

 

[grebe]

Interesting. When I researched this question over two years ago on the forum here it definitely seemed like the consensus was to blind off an expected late arrival. So we implemented that as a written rule for our tournaments. Coincidentally we played our first tournament in 18 months last week and this question came up and we blinded them out through something like L4.

It’s certainly much easier not to blind them out and there is always the chance that a late arrival turns into a no show.

FWIW we also do a 1K on time bonus on top of the 10K starting stack.

interesting point you bring up. When I say "blind me out, I'll be late" I assume I am on the hook for the buyin whether I make it or not. If somebody else says this and doesnt feel the obligation to pay in the case of a no-show, that creates a new issue to deal with as a host.

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

Blind off a player can also slow down (a little bit) the game as cards need to be dealt to the stacks I think. Hence creating more chances to have a miss deal.

 

[Eloe2000]

interesting point you bring up. When I say "blind me out, I'll be late" I assume I am on the hook for the buyin whether I make it or not. If somebody else says this and doesnt feel the obligation to pay in the case of a no-show, that creates a new issue to deal with as a host.

They are on the hook. It’s just an unfortunate situation that everyone wants to avoid if possible.

 

[MrCatPants]

1) when you blind people off, are you removing the chips from the game or putting them in the pot?

2) I can now see why people are doing the on time bonus. It never clicked for me before.

 

[Eloe2000]

1) when you blind people off, are you removing the chips from the game or putting them in the pot?

2) I can now see why people are doing the on time bonus. It never clicked for me before.

1- chips go in the pot. We aren’t taking the chips out of play. Again, this was in advice I had picked up in this forum.

2- it’s always a challenge to get people to show up on time (particularly in Miami). And with tournaments some people would intentionally show up late because they didn’t want to play the lower levels. This absolutely gets people there on time and gets thing stable and moving.

 

[MrCatPants]

1- chips go in the pot. We aren’t taking the chips out of play. Again, this was in advice I had picked up in this forum.

2- it’s always a challenge to get people to show up on time (particularly in Miami). And with tournaments some people would intentionally show up late because they didn’t want to play the lower levels. This absolutely gets people there on time and gets thing stable and moving.

I've just been lucky with a generally on time crew - late arrivals are rare for me, notified in advance, and usually one every other session. In the heart of Houston too - which is still heavy traffic but definitely not as ridiculous as Miami. Traffic there is bonkers.

 

[LeLe]

I got an interesting question, what happen if I was late and was blind in.

Somehow tons of people was knock out by 1 person super fast and furious leaving only a BIG stack and my stack *which I still not around yet*

Does the game continue with the big stack dealing and playing with himself against my stack

 

[Eloe2000]

I've just been lucky with a generally on time crew - late arrivals are rare for me, notified in advance, and usually one every other session. In the heart of Houston too - which is still heavy traffic but definitely not as ridiculous as Miami. Traffic there is bonkers.

It’s not an issue with traffic. And besides I live in the city, not the burbs of Miami-Dade county where the traffic is bad. Just Miami people are not punctual at all and operate on “island time”.

 

[DoubleEagle]

We stopped blinding people off about 10 years ago. Constant mis-deals with dealers forgetting to deal to the empty chair stack. Was especially bad if there were more than one empty chair stack at a table.

Everyone gets a full stack when they get there, as long as it is within the first hour. Some people bitched at first that the late player was coming in with more chips that they had at the time. Well, they don't as others mentioned above. They get substantially fewer big blinds than the on-time players got when they started.

The smartest thing we ever did to encourage people to get there on time was to offer an early arrival bonus. We require they be there 10 minutes before the start time to claim the bonus, usually 20%. So with a 10,000 starting stack, the early arrival bonus is 2,000. We only have one player that is still consistently late.

 

[grebe]

I got an interesting question, what happen if I was late and was blind in.

Somehow tons of people was knock out by 1 person super fast and furious leaving only a BIG stack and my stack *which I still not around yet*

Does the game continue with the big stack dealing and playing with himself against my stack

Game continues just like if you were there and folded every hand. Your non-presence does not equate to you cant cash. If it got down to you and him and you had only the big blind left, you would have to lose the last hand as a showdown for him to win.

BTW, this is very common online. As a matter of a fact, in survivor tournaments...where all "survivors" get the same payday, it's actually a viable strategy....people will just leave when they figure they have enough big blinds to not lose.

 

[MrCatPants]

It’s not an issue with traffic. And besides I live in the city, not the burbs of Miami-Dade county where the traffic is bad. Just Miami people are not punctual at all and operate on “island time”.

In my job I have been working regularly with a new Miami office and have seen what you refer to.

 

[JustinInMN]

My experience in “real” tournaments says that while blinding off stacks used to be standard, it isn’t standard any more.

This is my observation as well and informed my "no" vote in the poll.

I believe it this change is a function of "re-entry" becoming a standard tournament feature for a full stack. This also opens the door to late entry players wishing a full stack as well which is what I think is the most understood procedure in modern tournament play.

So if I were hosting, I would let the player buy in for a full stack on arrival and not have it on the table until arrival.

There is a good middle ground with several threads on PCF about doing a 10-20% on-time bonus, that is still a fair and for the host an easier solution. .

 

[TexRex]

I don't like blinding stacks, but we do it in limited circumstances. Here's my approach, and since switching to it, it's worked well.

Players who arrive before the game get an "early bird" bonus (about 12.5% of their starting stack most games). Late arrivals don't get that bonus unless they prepay. They can pay through Zelle and some take advantage of that, but not many. If they prepay, they get the bonus. This is how we blind their stack. When the BB hits the stack, we remove the SB and BB from that stack and from the game. That stack doesn't get cards. That player not being there doesn't affect other players at all. No dead money in the stack to win, and no player getting the advantage of effectively being on the button twice a round. Ultimately if they don't show, their stack has no impact on the game and their money isn't in the game. I've not actually had that come up yet.

I explain it like this. You paid to get the early bird bonus, so you get it. But if you then don't show up on time, your stack is effectively blinded as a late fee. You are still way better off paying early, having your stack blinded, and possibly sitting out 2 hands if you arrive at the hand where we blinded your stack and you have to let the button pass your seat.

We cut off the registration period at the 2 hour mark. The bonus is way more than if they have their stack blinded, so they start with more chips by prepaying.

Originally, I just gave a player a full stack when they showed up and they drew for an empty seat. That was simple, but had 2 problems. [1] It didn't encourage players to get there on time, so starting time started lagging. [2] Some players who got there on time felt like they got cheated because the late arrival got a full stack. And when one of those unhappy with the policy got KO'd by a late arrival, they complained it was unfair. I think that is a ridiculous argument, but eventually I realized that perception is out there and no matter how you explain the logic that they arrive late they start with fewer big blinds, players who didn't like it were vocal about it. So then I tried something different.

I went to empty seat stacks and blinded those empty seat stacks the same way (remove chips, no cards, no impact on the game) so late players paid something for not being on time. That was an improvement in the perception of fairness department, but that was a bigger pain to manage, and depending on who was having to do it at different tables, it wasn't handled consistently. Seems like everyone has slight different ideas about what should happen and that was part of the problem. At least no one could complain it was unfair, right? Wrong. Some don't like taking chips out of the game. That's another bad argument -- those chips were never in the game. But there is also no way to do that without impacting other players.

What I really wanted to was get started on time. The early bird bonus is the best thing, by far, that I've ever tried to accomplish that.

 

[dmoney]

I haven’t read this whole thread but I read something that I liked on this topic as a method for blinding out stacks without impacting strategy at the table:

Put the stacks at the table, and remove both blinds from play (not into the pot) as the button passes that stack.

Fwiw I think I would rather just not put any stack in play until the player shows, especially if it’s a rebuy tournament. I might be only marginally more inclined to put a stack in play for a freezeout but not by much.

 

[grebe]

I don't like blinding stacks, but we do it in limited circumstances. Here's my approach, and since switching to it, it's worked well.

Players who arrive before the game get an "early bird" bonus (about 12.5% of their starting stack most games). Late arrivals don't get that bonus unless they prepay. They can pay through Zelle and some take advantage of that, but not many. If they prepay, they get the bonus. This is how we blind their stack. When the BB hits the stack, we remove the SB and BB from that stack and from the game. That stack doesn't get cards. That player not being there doesn't affect other players at all. No dead money in the stack to win, and no player getting the advantage of effectively being on the button twice a round. Ultimately if they don't show, their stack has no impact on the game and their money isn't in the game. I've not actually had that come up yet.

I explain it like this. You paid to get the early bird bonus, so you get it. But if you then don't show up on time, your stack is effectively blinded as a late fee. You are still way better off paying early, having your stack blinded, and possibly sitting out 2 hands if you arrive at the hand where we blinded your stack and you have to let the button pass your seat.

We cut off the registration period at the 2 hour mark. The bonus is way more than if they have their stack blinded, so they start with more chips by prepaying.

Originally, I just gave a player a full stack when they showed up and they drew for an empty seat. That was simple, but had 2 problems. [1] It didn't encourage players to get there on time, so starting time started lagging. [2] Some players who got there on time felt like they got cheated because the late arrival got a full stack. And when one of those unhappy with the policy got KO'd by a late arrival, they complained it was unfair. I think that is a ridiculous argument, but eventually I realized that perception is out there and no matter how you explain the logic that they arrive late they start with fewer big blinds, players who didn't like it were vocal about it. So then I tried something different.

I went to empty seat stacks and blinded those empty seat stacks the same way (remove chips, no cards, no impact on the game) so late players paid something for not being on time. That was an improvement in the perception of fairness department, but that was a bigger pain to manage, and depending on who was having to do it at different tables, it wasn't handled consistently. Seems like everyone has slight different ideas about what should happen and that was part of the problem. At least no one could complain it was unfair, right? Wrong. Some don't like taking chips out of the game. That's another bad argument -- those chips were never in the game. But there is also no way to do that without impacting other players.

What I really wanted to was get started on time. The early bird bonus is the best thing, by far, that I've ever tried to accomplish that.

Why not just let people fight over the dead money? Maybe it's just me, but I personally LOVE to watch the table dynamics change when somebody is sitting out of an online tournament and everybody knows that blind is up for grabs.

As a fairly aggressive player, I would want those blinds to be fair game.