What is going on here? W/ sales (2 Viewers)

Ben8257 said:
...There was a recent sale of a barrel of Pick Hobson $100s, the seller wanted $15 a chip and it is publicly know these are chips that I own. The buyer reached out to me asking what the going rate was for minty PH Hundos because multiple people reached out trying to sell after they saw them move for that price. It's sad man, people looking for these chips or a wanted ad saying I will pay the going rate of $8 each would probably produce zero results. But I guess that is just where we are now, max profits or I am not moving chips period!!
...
Ben
Click to expand...
I'm not disagreeing with your general sentiment Ben. But it's about time that chip inflation hit PH Hundos. That is one chip that remained relatively unaffected by chip prices going insane. I have no horse in the race -- sold my PH Hundos for $8/, I think. But in today's world, where minty casino TRKs in the wild are nearing extinction...$8 for a casino TRK $100, yeah, I'd have racks and racks of them (if I loved the colors).
 
BGinGA said:
I blame the introduction of 43mm Paulsons via both Ohio Horseshoe Casino sales. Yeah, there were flippers around before then, but they took those IHC high-denomination chip prices to unheard-of levels of shameless greed.

Subsequent NAGB sellers of 43mm chips merely followed suit, although not nearly to the same degree.
Click to expand...

It's not only shameless greed. You make it seem like all sellers on the secondary market was cynical and greedy, which imo is wrong. It's a result of Jim wanting to move his chips fast, and it really also has to do with buyers being willing to spend the at the time absurd amounts of money for these chips. I don't think anyon expected them to reach those levels before the sale. While it's annoying that the prices have been rising so much, and some flippers are pretty obvious, many times the price increases are a result of impatient buyers and hype.

I originally partook in the HS Cleveland sale as I wanted a set for myself as an upgrade from GV primaries. I was happy when I got a full MFRB worth of a useful 5-5 breakdown, including a barrel of HS cle pri $1ks. Loved those oversized chips, and was happy to have some with the set. I can't quite recall how much I paid for them, but after just a few months the prices for them skyrocket and I was given the opportunity to let mine go and spend the money on what I decided was more value for money for me in my chipping adventure. Buying the barrel of $1ks was already stretching it for me at the time, and when they more than doubled in value in short time, I decided I shouldn't keep them (having several hundred bucks locked up in one barrel of chips felt kinda insane for me at the time). It's not like I wanted to rip people of but when people were lining up to grab my chips and I could use that money for what I believe was an upgrade, I decided to let them go. After owning two casino used sets, I was longing for getting a set of mint chips, and when the opportunity arose (my casino used HS cle set was suddenly worth close to what a new mint set of Jack's would cost), IMO I simply sold them at a price people were willing to pay. Had they not been willing to pay that much, I wouldn't have wanted to sell. I still have only one tourney set and one cash set, as well as hundreds of singles/samples. Would love to have kept the HS cle set as well, but can't justify having so much cash locked up in a hobby like this.

We talked about it @cgpilots thread, that pricing for chips don't always make sense in that some chips are underpriced and some are overpriced in relation to each other. It's all objective. To me a barrel of HS high denoms were worth less than a couple of racks of lower denom mint Jack's. To others it was apparently different.
 
John Conor said:
Two years ago I could buy any chip in the Artichoke Joe lineup for less than $10 from Spinetti’s. Now the $1 chip is going for three times that and Chris won’t budge on price. They want $30 bucks a chip for the twenty! I’m not blaming you, just because you paid that, but it sucks that they are selling at that price and Spinettis has doubled and tripled their prices on these in less than two years. I’m not trying to start shit and I really like you, Ben. I’m just pointing out that there are buyers at the new inflated prices, or there wouldn’t be sellers.
Click to expand...
I only own a single $20 AJ chip and I paid $24 for it, I did not buy theirs for $30. I have been paying $15 each for the THC $1 peanut house chips trying to get to 2 barrels and getting out bid on the rare occasion that one pops up. Some have said I am crazy for paying that price... but if I am getting outbid is that not current market value? Not outbid 1 time it has been multiple times I can't get them for $15.... I paid a fortune for a set that most people probably think is ugly and not desirable... but It means something to me. You will not see them for sale unless something terrible happened and I needed the money, I don't say never because nothing is guaranteed in life. At that time I would do my best to figure out what fair value is and take a loss on chips that I have over paid for because I think I am the only one that was willing to pay that premium for less desirable chips.

As previously mentioned playability is a huge factor and if you have paid to build a set and it is missing a piece I don't blame anyone for paying a premium to fill that void!! The idea of my system is not Red Light do not buy!! Its hey pay attention because this is higher than going rate! I have debated buying that $20 single even at $30 because they are awesome and would help my top end... I hope someday to find 10 of them, will it happen? Probably not, but in this market I have accepted that building a rare set is going to cost. My comment was more directed towards chips being sold in chip sales and a few weeks later being listed for much higher. The same thing happened with JACKs when I first joined this hobby, it will probably happen again with the next big casino closing out!! People want the Latest and greatest flashy thing. There are quite a few of us that set our sights on other stuff, harder stuff to find. It takes money as a noob stepping into that world to find them, I don't have crazy trade bait to offer. I didn't get in on the ground level and buy chips for $1 each! Spinettis listed their chips and I decided it was a price I was willing to pay. I never paid more, they drove their prices up themselves as they always do when they see there is a demand for a given chip and at the time there were and still are several members hunting these same chips.

It sucks when people are hunting the same chips, feelings are going to get hurt. I never meant to hurt anyone by going after these chips and I am sorry if you feel like I drove the prices up on you for the very few singles they had left available.
 
liftapint said:
I'm not disagreeing with your general sentiment Ben. But it's about time that chip inflation hit PH Hundos. That is one chip that remained relatively unaffected by chip prices going insane. I have no horse in the race -- sold my PH Hundos for $8/, I think. But in today's world, where minty casino TRKs in the wild are nearing extinction...$8 for a casino TRK $100, yeah, I'd have racks and racks of them (if I loved the colors).
Click to expand...
Im not disagreeing with ya Mel, I actually told the buyer I feel like $10 a chip is fair in this market... I mean I think Spinettis saw that price and their's instantly went to $25 (previously $12 if I recall correctly) compounding on my last statement that they are the ones with the supply and they are going to charge a premium for you to get what you need without hunting in the rare market. But with those high prices you don't have to run in and call dibs like around here. You can take your time and do your research and make the decision to pay the premium or keep on looking.

Even $15 each for chips that we are not likely to see available in quantity very often is probably still in the ball park, but again my point was all the people that contacted him and said "hey I have more of those if you need them!" The chips are out there, its human nature to want to make a profit. just another aspect of how this hobby is changing.
 
This entire thread:

tenor.gif
 
Windwalker said:
I spent some time thinking through this comment, and similar ones from the last couple weeks. A comment from @Ben8257 comes to mind, though I can't be bothered to find it. Suffice to say, it was a similar sentiment, around a single individual changing market dynamics.

By the way, this isn't a defense or retort, it's more of an examination, and as such, some thoughts as a new hobbyist / collector of how I see things and pricing from my side. I had some time over the last couple days, and was able to pull together some statistics for this examination. What the data tells is an interesting story that might surprise you.

Let's start with some real data. For the purposes of this exercise, I'll limit the data to average price per chip in full sets that I have bought, as opposed to individual racks of a denomination I may have acquired. The one exception to this will be an analysis of what happened with the Bourbon $5s, and why it caused such a tizzy.

Outside of the numbers below, I have lots of other individual and partial set purchases, some which are in line with "market pricing", and others, which are not. An example of the latter is my cost per chip on the BTP $20 cash, which is north of $24 a chip. On the other hand, my cost per chip on the High Sierra $1000 mint chips is less than $8 a chip. In general, I think individual racks of purchases don't really skew purchases that much, and have to be taken in context.

View attachment 607707

Notice a few anomalies. It is ONLY in the case of chips that are either rare, or extremely contained in terms of ownership, that I *chose* to pay a premium to acquire them. Those chips were simply not going to move unless a similar price was paid, period. Maybe they could have been traded after a while, maybe someone would take pity on your long years as a chipper and do you a solid, but for the most part, the anomalies in pricing are within PCF, not outside of it, from people who had to get a fantastic offer in order to feel like they could let go of them.

You'll also notice that even in this shortlist, a significant number of my chips were acquired off-forum, and the prices are almost always better that way. Oh -- and I didn't include any sets that were ONLY acquired off-forum (like the Doc's) because that has no relevance on this thread, the OP, or pricing on PCF.

Here's where this data and perception don't compute: I fail to see a plausible argument that purchasing certain rare items at a premium by an individual could affect the entire pricing landscape of PCF. The RVCLs were simply not available, so it can't be counted; I might argue the same for the Lakeshores and Nevada Lodges. A more plausible explanation is one or more of the following:

- The hobby has reached a "tipping point" and demand far outweighs supply;
- There is a socio-economic disruption in the makeup of the hobbyist, with wealthier people entering the hobby than before;
- We are transitioning from just "hobby" to "collectibles" -- where the context of purchase and use have different motivations.

A note on the Bourbon $5s -- an individual had placed a WTB ad, offering $900 per rack for the chips. I was completely unaware of this, when I made a deal to buy a chipset on PCF for about 40% more. I subsequently found 12 additional racks off-forum, but needed to pay a heavy premium to extricate it, which I was OK with. I think the subsequent noise that ensued was frustration that people were willing to a) sell at stepper prices and b) people (me) were willing to buy at higher prices. Ultimately, people will sell at whatever price someone is willing to pay. For CERTAIN chipsets, I have been (and will continue to be) willing to pay more.

Like I said, this isn't a defense, or explanation. I wanted to examine perception of my own role in market dynamics against real facts.
Click to expand...
Hell of a collection. But IMO, you don’t owe anyone an explanation on how you spend your money or how you buy chips.
 
Rhodeman77 said:
we kind of already do this by the silence in over priced listings. You notice when someone lists chips at a fair price many people like the post and comment what a great seller the person is and what a great price the chips are. That someone better jump on them fast before they are gone. I try to do it.

on the other side, when prices are what most feel to be crazy, nobody comments or likes the post. It is the best option we have.
Click to expand...

I feel I see people posting "great price" in listings with what I would not consider even reasonable pricing.. Especially newer members are guilty of this, maybe to bump their post count or something, or they just don't really have a clue what great prices are, since they just entered the hobby at peak crazy.
 
Ben8257 said:
I only own a single $20 AJ chip and I paid $24 for it, I did not buy theirs for $30. I have been paying $15 each for the THC $1 peanut house chips trying to get to 2 barrels and getting out bid on the rare occasion that one pops up. Some have said I am crazy for paying that price... but if I am getting outbid is that not current market value? Not outbid 1 time it has been multiple times I can't get them for $15.... I paid a fortune for a set that most people probably think is ugly and not desirable... but It means something to me. You will not see them for sale unless something terrible happened and I needed the money, I don't say never because nothing is guaranteed in life. At that time I would do my best to figure out what fair value is and take a loss on chips that I have over paid for because I think I am the only one that was willing to pay that premium for less desirable chips.

As previously mentioned playability is a huge factor and if you have paid to build a set and it is missing a piece I don't blame anyone for paying a premium to fill that void!! The idea of my system is not Red Light do not buy!! Its hey pay attention because this is higher than going rate! I have debated buying that $20 single even at $30 because they are awesome and would help my top end... I hope someday to find 10 of them, will it happen? Probably not, but in this market I have accepted that building a rare set is going to cost. My comment was more directed towards chips being sold in chip sales and a few weeks later being listed for much higher. The same thing happened with JACKs when I first joined this hobby, it will probably happen again with the next big casino closing out!! People want the Latest and greatest flashy thing. There are quite a few of us that set our sights on other stuff, harder stuff to find. It takes money as a noob stepping into that world to find them, I don't have crazy trade bait to offer. I didn't get in on the ground level and buy chips for $1 each! Spinettis listed their chips and I decided it was a price I was willing to pay. I never paid more, they drove their prices up themselves as they always do when they see there is a demand for a given chip and at the time there were and still are several members hunting these same chips.

It sucks when people are hunting the same chips, feelings are going to get hurt. I never meant to hurt anyone by going after these chips and I am sorry if you feel like I drove the prices up on you for the very few singles they had left available.
Click to expand...
I didn’t want you to have to defend your purchases. It’s more a commentary on Spinetti’s scalping people because they can. My point is if people didn’t pay the higher prices, they wouldn’t last. I love your AJ set and it’s not “ugly”.
 
Rhodeman77 said:
we kind of already do this by the silence in over priced listings. You notice when someone lists chips at a fair price many people like the post and comment what a great seller the person is and what a great price the chips are. That someone better jump on them fast before they are gone. I try to do it.

on the other side, when prices are what most feel to be crazy, nobody comments or likes the post. It is the best option we have.
Click to expand...
shorticus said:
Ironically, I look for this in sale threads, but I didn’t realize it was a thing.

No likes to me equals subliminal “stay away” messaging lol
Click to expand...
Not just silence or a lack of likes, either. Clicking a 'Sad' or 'Mad' response to the listing says a lot about an ad, and doesn't violate the 'No thread crapping' rule.
 
BGinGA said:
Not just silence or a lack of likes, either. Clicking a 'Sad' or 'Mad' response to the listing says a lot about an ad, and doesn't violate the 'No thread crapping' rule.
Click to expand...

I wasn’t sure if that did or not. Thanks for the clarification.
 
liftapint said:
I'm not disagreeing with your general sentiment Ben. But it's about time that chip inflation hit PH Hundos. That is one chip that remained relatively unaffected by chip prices going insane. I have no horse in the race -- sold my PH Hundos for $8/, I think. But in today's world, where minty casino TRKs in the wild are nearing extinction...$8 for a casino TRK $100, yeah, I'd have racks and racks of them (if I loved the colors).
Click to expand...
An unexpected benefit of this thread is your avatar picture! That looks like a dog who, after I got over my amazement of finally meeting a talking dog, would annoy me because all they were talking about was crossfit.
 
Marius L said:
I feel I see people posting "great price" in listings with what I would not consider even reasonable pricing.. Especially newer members are guilty of this, maybe to bump their post count or something, or they just don't really have a clue what great prices are, since they just entered the hobby at peak crazy.
Click to expand...

it’s not a perfect system lol. Just the best option we have. Taking a few moments to see who is posting and how long they have been a member and post count helps. People need to take some responsibility on themselves to before spending money if they don’t want to get ripped off.
 
Rhodeman77 said:
it’s not a perfect system lol. Just the best option we have. Taking a few moments to see who is posting and how long they have been a member and post count helps. People need to take some responsibility on themselves to before spending money if they don’t want to get ripped off.
Click to expand...
This summarizes this thread and every other thread about chips and pricing ever created.
 
Josh Kifer said:
The book of drill revolutions 7:14 says.... Thee who clears the center of the evil, will have enterace into heaven....
Click to expand...
huh? you mean you get a sweet suite with a bathroom right off the terrace in heaven.. :p
 
softchewy said:
huh? you mean you get a sweet suite with a terrace right off the bedroom in heaven.. :p
Click to expand...
Yes. I had to add the old time english to really set off the statement.... En-ter-ance into the glorious givings of chippies.

I feel like Steve Martin in Leap of Faith....
 
shorticus said:
This summarizes this thread and every other thread about chips and pricing ever created.
Click to expand...
Minus the trade “only if I triple up” posts. Those are the most annoying posts here imo.


CASH IS KING. Who disagrees? When Guys post they Don’t need the money I LOL = Ahahahah ya right ok how about OFFER MORE OF THAT MONEY YOUR HOLDING ONTO AND DONT NEED??

Trade only is often just a “show off” or act of douchyness to me. No one here will catch me running that nonsense. Ever.
 
I started this thread not because I have a problem with this:

Buyer buys chips @$2/chip and some time later the same chips are routinely being bought and sold at $3 or $4 or $10 or what ever number and then buyer sells his chips at a profit. In my mind there is nothing wrong with this. This is just a market doing what a market does .

I do have a problem with this:

Buyer buys chips @ 59¢/chip from Jim as do many others. A few days or a week or a month later Jim still has those same chips available for 59¢ the same guy puts up a for sale add for those exact same chips in the exact condition for $5/chip. Now some uninformed new guy that has no idea that Jim exists or that the same chips he is contemplating buying for $5/chip are actually available elsewhere for 59¢/chip. Of course, if a "wanted" post was put up for those chips @$1/chip he would also be able to acquire as many chips as he wanted from many different sources.

I do realize that everyone gets to do what they want and that the chips that the guy bought @59¢ are his to do with as he wishes including trying to sell them a few days later to an unsuspecting new guy. I just think this behavior is lame. If I ran this forum and I could figure out a way to not allow it, I would. (difficult, if not impossible I must admit)

My OP had absolutely nothing to do with Windwalker buying all those chips @ $8 or $10 or any other chips that get bought at what ever the going rate happens to be.

The Poker Chip Market can be extremely fragile as can any market that is very thinly traded. Just think about this for a bit.....

Lets say I have a large set of chips that I know would be very coveted here by at least a few people. For my example I am going to say that there are 10 people here that would buy the set @$4/chip or more. Of those 10, 8 are only willing to pay $4, 1 is a buyer up to $16/chip and the last guy has enough money that he doesn't care. He wants the chips no matter what and is a buyer up to $100/chip. In this scenario in an auction the chips will sell @ $16.01/ chip, right? But.... all it takes is for 1 buyer to disappear and the chips now sell @ $4.01. The dang things lost 75% of the sale price overnight because one of those 2 guys became disinterested for some reason. Idk, they got sick, died, their wife found out they were buying little clay thingy's for $16 ea whatever. See how fragile this whole thing can be?

My whole point with the OP in the 1st place had nothing to do with the 2 guys knowingly getting into a bidding war and one of them winding up buying chips @ $16.01 and the seller profiting, but did have everything to do with the guy buying chips @59¢ and trying to sell them to an unsuspecting person @ $5/chip when the market is really 59¢/chip.
 
Last edited:
BGinGA said:
Not just silence or a lack of likes, either. Clicking a 'Sad' or 'Mad' response to the listing says a lot about an ad, and doesn't violate the 'No thread crapping' rule.
Click to expand...
When I first joined (late 2018), I used the amount of sad/angry/laughing emojis in a sale’s OP as a guide for what other members thought of the listed prices. This isn’t as effective anymore.
 
SpaceMonkey420 said:
Minus the trade “only if I triple up” posts. Those are the most annoying posts here imo.


CASH IS KING. Who disagrees? When Guys post they Don’t need the money I LOL = Ahahahah ya right ok how about OFFER MORE OF THAT MONEY YOUR HOLDING ONTO AND DONT NEED??

Trade only is often just a “show off” or act of douchyness to me. No one here will catch me running that nonsense. Ever.
Click to expand...
Where have you been? Cash isn't king, when there's a shortage of chips.
I've been sitting on a couple racks of leaded THCs that I have no immediate use for - for the first time ever. I'm not a collector - I only buy chips I can get into play. But even if I sold them for 3x what I paid, I'd probably end up paying 4x to get something i need, if I could ever find somebody willing to sell.
 
SpaceMonkey420 said:
Trade only is often just a “show off” or act of douchyness to me.
Click to expand...
In some instances I can agree. But these days chips are more scarce than money when it comes to acquiring anything decent. Why sell when there will likely be nothing to replace them with? Dynamic of the hobby has changed. No longer a game of “renting” if you actually want a leaded thc set for the long term
 
Nanook said:
Now some uninformed new guy that has no idea that Jim exists or that the same chips he is contemplating buying for $5/chip are actually available elsewhere for 59¢/chip.
Click to expand...
Good rule of thumb for new guys - if a classified ad has been up for 3 minutes and the chips are still available, they're not worth buying.
 
upNdown said:
Where have you been? Cash isn't king, when there's a shortage of chips.
Click to expand...
In my world there is always a shortage of chips and cash is still king. Try offering more money. I went to $30 a chip for a client wanting vivas. I had ran ads for months. When I went to $30 a chip I filled every order I needed in ONE day. People flooded my inbox every second.

You see cash really is king. You just have to know how to use it. Sitting in the bank is not the way and never will be.

“Trade only i don’t need the money” LMAO that is just a complete and total lie.
 
Last edited:
Windwalker said:
I spent some time thinking through this comment, and similar ones from the last couple weeks. A comment from @Ben8257 comes to mind, though I can't be bothered to find it. Suffice to say, it was a similar sentiment, around a single individual changing market dynamics.

By the way, this isn't a defense or retort, it's more of an examination, and as such, some thoughts as a new hobbyist / collector of how I see things and pricing from my side. I had some time over the last couple days, and was able to pull together some statistics for this examination. What the data tells is an interesting story that might surprise you.

Let's start with some real data. For the purposes of this exercise, I'll limit the data to average price per chip in full sets that I have bought, as opposed to individual racks of a denomination I may have acquired. The one exception to this will be an analysis of what happened with the Bourbon $5s, and why it caused such a tizzy.

Outside of the numbers below, I have lots of other individual and partial set purchases, some which are in line with "market pricing", and others, which are not. An example of the latter is my cost per chip on the BTP $20 cash, which is north of $24 a chip. On the other hand, my cost per chip on the High Sierra $1000 mint chips is less than $8 a chip. In general, I think individual racks of purchases don't really skew purchases that much, and have to be taken in context.

View attachment 607707

Notice a few anomalies. It is ONLY in the case of chips that are either rare, or extremely contained in terms of ownership, that I *chose* to pay a premium to acquire them. Those chips were simply not going to move unless a similar price was paid, period. Maybe they could have been traded after a while, maybe someone would take pity on your long years as a chipper and do you a solid, but for the most part, the anomalies in pricing are within PCF, not outside of it, from people who had to get a fantastic offer in order to feel like they could let go of them.

You'll also notice that even in this shortlist, a significant number of my chips were acquired off-forum, and the prices are almost always better that way. Oh -- and I didn't include any sets that were ONLY acquired off-forum (like the Doc's) because that has no relevance on this thread, the OP, or pricing on PCF.

Here's where this data and perception don't compute: I fail to see a plausible argument that purchasing certain rare items at a premium by an individual could affect the entire pricing landscape of PCF. The RVCLs were simply not available, so it can't be counted; I might argue the same for the Lakeshores and Nevada Lodges. A more plausible explanation is one or more of the following:

- The hobby has reached a "tipping point" and demand far outweighs supply;
- There is a socio-economic disruption in the makeup of the hobbyist, with wealthier people entering the hobby than before;
- We are transitioning from just "hobby" to "collectibles" -- where the context of purchase and use have different motivations.

A note on the Bourbon $5s -- an individual had placed a WTB ad, offering $900 per rack for the chips. I was completely unaware of this, when I made a deal to buy a chipset on PCF for about 40% more. I subsequently found 12 additional racks off-forum, but needed to pay a heavy premium to extricate it, which I was OK with. I think the subsequent noise that ensued was frustration that people were willing to a) sell at stepper prices and b) people (me) were willing to buy at higher prices. Ultimately, people will sell at whatever price someone is willing to pay. For CERTAIN chipsets, I have been (and will continue to be) willing to pay more.

Like I said, this isn't a defense, or explanation. I wanted to examine perception of my own role in market dynamics against real facts.
Click to expand...

The entry for Jack high denoms... Is that just 1Ks and 5Ks?
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Register

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Similar threads

ChippinUp
Diamond Jacks $5 vs HSC $5
Replies
15
Views
384
Dcarl
Dcarl
M
Please....who tf is TINA?
Replies
27
Views
667
maneframe150
M
FestiveKnight
  • Poll
HOARD
2
Replies
37
Views
1K
upNdown
upNdown
2xdown
Chip Cheat
3 4 5
Replies
143
Views
4K
GreekRedEye
GreekRedEye
P
Nile Club Chips - Color/Quality?
Replies
2
Views
171
Labrat
L
Back
Top Bottom