Tourney Starting Stacks Breakdown T100 Base (1 Viewer)

[BGinGA]

Somewhat agree, but you could also get away with using 2k chips in a T20000 starting stack.

10/6/6/5 starting stacks for T100/T500/T1000/T2000 if you don't mind the redundancy of T1000 and T2000 chips on the table.

Otherwise, I agree that T2000 and T5000 chips shouldn't be on the table at the same time unless you're playing a really deep stack.

Mixing T2000 and T1000 chips (along with T500s) is lunacy. And T5000 chips shouldn't be used with T2000 chips in play (T10000 is the next jump).

The reason to use T2000 chips is to eliminate the inefficient 2x jump between T500 and T1000, not to create more of them.

But T2000 chips are only really useful (ie, more useful than T1000s) when a) there is a sufficent number of T500 chips on the table, and b) the total value of chips in play is large enough that higher blind levels will get utilized. Otherwise, there aren't a sufficent number of T2000s in play to be efficient (or if forcing the number higher, eliminating too many T500s needed to keep things running smoothly).

Generally speaking, less than 400k in total chips in play is not really a significamt improvement, and for best results, total chip should exceed 500k (two tables of 25k stacks, or a single table of 50k stacks).

 

[DeeVee8]

20k? I use 10/8/15 or 10/8/10/1

 

[guyfleegman]

Normally I would whole heartedly agree.
I think in this case we have a good number of 500’s in play already with my breakdown. The 2ks are extremely effective compared to 1ks.
5k-10k Chips are totally unnecessary In a single table set up here.
Compared to 1k chips, total chips needed to make bets of:
1k = 2 Worse
1500= 3 Worse
2k= 1 Better
2500 = 2 Better
3k = 4 Worse
3500= 4 Same
4000= 2 Better
4500= 3 Better
5000 = 4 Better
5500 = 5 Better
6000 = 3 Better

 

[Mr Winberg]

The reason to use T2000 chips is to eliminate the inefficient 2x jump between T500 and T1000

Or (if you're like me and love purple chips and therefore don't like that the T500 is the T1000's sidekick and therefore hardly gets used) if you want to give the beautiful T500 center stage as the workhorse every now and then!

But T2000 chips are only really useful (ie, more useful than T1000s) when a) there is a sufficent number of T500 chips on the table, and b) the total value of chips in play is large enough that higher blind levels will get utilized. Otherwise, there aren't a sufficent number of T2000s in play to be efficient (or if forcing the number higher, eliminating too many T500s needed to keep things running smoothly).

I've also found c) when the T500 is the highest denom in the starting stack. When a new higher denom gets colored-in I don't like adding T1000, I prefer T2000. It just feels unnatural for me to have lots of T500 and a few T1000. YMMV.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Compared to 1k chips, total chips needed to make bets of:
1k = 2 Worse
1500= 3 Worse
2k= 1 Better
2500 = 2 Better
3k = 4 Worse
3500= 4 Same
4000= 2 Better
4500= 3 Better
5000 = 4 Better
5500 = 5 Better
6000 = 3 Better

How can less chips be better? This is PCF!!

 

[legonick]

Personally, I would not:

• use more than 10 x T100 (unless antes are in play)
• use fewer than 5 x T500 (if no re-buys) or fewer than 7x T500 (if using T5000 chips for re-buys)
• use more than 1x T5000 for a 20k stack

So my preferences are:

• 10/8/10/1
• 10/6/11/1
• 15/7/10/1

pending specific circumstances.

Preferences, in that order? 15/7/10/1 has the most chips in play, biggest looking stack, wouldn't that gravitate your preference to that one?

What circumstances are you referring to? Chip counts available, or other things?

 

[Ben8257]

I eventually plan for our 05 CDI tourney set to be able to run both T25 and T100. Everyone knows I love crazy chip numbers in play!

For a deep stack 500BB T100K, I would run SS of 15/9/14/6/2... probably still ridiculous but I love lots of chips in play!!

@legonick many here refer to the efficiency of the chips in play. basically an equation of how many chips of each denom are really needed to minimize change making but also not have chips that will really be played other than all in shoves (which takes more time to count out with excessive smaller denoms)... mostly just place holders on the table!

you will see a lot of hate for the T500 chip and rightfully so, not many are really needed and if you start stacks with a bunch of them usually players will throw in 2 for a 1,000 bet... the same bet can easily be covered with 1 - 1K chip so why put a bunch of them on the table if they really aren't needed!

I love chips, I love lots of them on the table, I want to give each player the experience of monster stacks... but this is really geared towards my own obsession and newer players. Veterans I would say are more about efficiency, especially the ones forking out the cash to build the set.

Nothing wrong with building your set your way, but definitely worth listening to the guys that have been doing this for years when you start to step into higher priced chips or even customs! listening to their very functional breakdowns could save you a lot of money!!

Ben

 

[BGinGA]

What circumstances are you referring to? Chip counts available, or other things?

The circumstances referred to in the beginning of that post -- antes, re-buys, color-ups, etc.

 

[liftapint]

you will see a lot of hate for the T500 chip and rightfully so, not many are really needed and if you start stacks with a bunch of them usually players will throw in 2 for a 1,000 bet... the same bet can easily be covered with 1 - 1K chip so why put a bunch of them on the table if they really aren't needed!

This is so sad, because the 500 is often one of the best looking chips in a set, I think.

 

[AK Chip]

This is so sad, because the 500 is often one of the best looking chips in a set, I think.

I love the purple chips!!

 

[BGinGA]

This is so sad, because the 500 is often one of the best looking chips in a set, I think.

Hence my gravitation to dual-base sets which allow T500-base use.

 

[clapton77]

I'll probably get scoffed at, but I have a big chip set and my players like deep stacks, so we go 30/20/12/3 for stacks of T40K and re-buys of 0/20/20/2. Just one table. We have a friendly blind structure, as well, because we like to let people play for a while. It's fun having all of those chips at our disposal. And the color ups make the number of chips on the table at the end of the night more reasonable.

We've never done this, but we could even go 30/14/10/4 for stacks of T40K with 24 players and 12 re-buys of 0/10/15/4. And still have enough chips left for color ups.

Just kidding, I just wanted to use this gif. Sounds like a fun structure.

 

[allforcharity]

Why not have T100 base tourney structure that has T100, T500, T2K, and T10K chips? Use 20k and up structure.

 

[Blind Joe]

I run T15K tourneys using

15/5/6/1

The group I play with need 15 x T100 unfortunately, otherwise I would prefer 10x T100 but they'd forever be making change after limping in and min raising every hand

I would also prefer to have 11x T1k and save the T5K for rebuys/colour up as it gives the chip a bit more significance when it comes into play later on rather than right from the start, but I don't have enough T1ks right now.

 

[BGinGA]

Why not have T100 base tourney structure that has T100, T500, T2K, and T10K chips? Use 20k and up structure.

You'd want 10/10/7 or preferably 15/13/6 (or 10/14/6) for 20K starting stacks, using T2000s for T100 color-ups. Def want 15x T100 if using antes. T10K chips would rarely see play. The logistics work much better for multiple tables and/or larger stacks.

 

[allforcharity]

You'd want 10/10/7 or preferably 15/13/6 (or 10/14/6) for 20K starting stacks, using T2000s for T100 color-ups. Def want 15x T100 if using antes. T10K chips would rarely see play. The logistics work much better for multiple tables and/or larger stacks.

I would have presumed to use T10K only for rebuys and maybe top ups.

 

[guyfleegman]

Revisiting this.

T100 based t20k stacks with T2000 chips.
Two tables-20 seats
10-10-7 starting stacks
10 - T2000 chips color up the hundreds.

So set would be:
200- 100's
200- 500's
150- 2000's
400,000 chips in play
Would you even need T10k chips?

Anyone have a link for a blinds post ?

 

[dmoney]

I found this somewhere here - don't recall where - but will happily have it critiqued/edited.

Small Blind	Big Blind
100	100
100	200
100	300
200	400
300	600
400	800
600	1,200
800	1,600
1,000	2,000
1,500	3,000
2,000	4,000
3,000	6,000
4,000	8,000
6,000	12,000
8,000	16,000
10,000	20,000
15,000	30,000
20,000	40,000
25,000	50,000
35,000	70,000
50,000	100,000
75,000	150,000
100,000	200,000
150,000	300,000
200,000	400,000

 

[Mr Winberg]

Was this a reply to @guyfleegman?

I found this somewhere here - don't recall where - but will happily have it critiqued/edited.

Small Blind	Big Blind
100	100
100	200
100	300
200	400
300	600
400	800
600	1,200
800	1,600
1,000	2,000
1,500	3,000
2,000	4,000
3,000	6,000
4,000	8,000
6,000	12,000
8,000	16,000
10,000	20,000
15,000	30,000
20,000	40,000
25,000	50,000
35,000	70,000
50,000	100,000
75,000	150,000
100,000	200,000
150,000	300,000
200,000	400,000

If so, I'd change the 15k/30k level to either 14k/30k or 14k/28k. That way you can remove the T500s after the 3000/6000 level. If you go with 15k/30k you need to keep them another 5 levels. The same goes for some of the subsequent levels as well, but it's very unlikely that the tourney will last that long. It will most likely end during or before 10k/20k.

Revisiting this.

T100 based t20k stacks with T2000 chips.
Two tables-20 seats
10-10-7 starting stacks
10 - T2000 chips color up the hundreds.

So set would be:
200- 100's
200- 500's
150- 2000's
400,000 chips in play
Would you even need T10k chips?

Anyone have a link for a blinds post ?

The T100 and T500 will be colored off before the end, so without T10k chips you would need 200 T2k. Or actually more if you round up on color-ups. I would only use the T2ks for starting stacks and introduce T10ks when coloring off the T100s and T500s. That's 12 T10k chips, plus a few more for covering rounding up.

So set would be:
200- 100's
200- 500's
140- 2000's
12- 10000's

Plus perhaps 2 more T10ks for rounding up on color-ups, plus spares of each denom.

 

[guyfleegman]

Was this a reply to @guyfleegman?

If so, I'd change the 15k/30k level to either 14k/30k or 14k/28k. That way you can remove the T500s after the 3000/6000 level. If you go with 15k/30k you need to keep them another 5 levels. The same goes for some of the subsequent levels as well, but it's very unlikely that the tourney will last that long. It will most likely end during or before 10k/20k.

The T100 and T500 will be colored off before the end, so without T10k chips you would need 200 T2k. Or actually more if you round up on color-ups. I would only use the T2ks for starting stacks and introduce T10ks when coloring off the T100s and T500s. That's 12 T10k chips, plus a few more for covering rounding up.

So set would be:
200- 100's
200- 500's
140- 2000's
12- 10000's

Plus perhaps 2 more T10ks for rounding up on color-ups, plus spares of each denom.

I like that. Saves some chips too. Looks very efficient.
That said, if the tourney ends at 10k/20k do we really need to bother with coloring up the 500’s?
I usually considered 3 denoms for final heads-up as perfectly fine. I guess your point is that they aren’t really useful as most bets would just be in 2k increments not including shoves??

 

[Mr Winberg]

That said, if the tourney ends at 10k/20k do we really need to bother with coloring up the 500’s?

I would. I like to remove chips as soon as they are no longer needed.

I guess your point is that they aren’t really useful as most bets would just be in 2k increments not including shoves??

Not exactly. My point is that chips are usually only kept for as long as they are needed to cover blinds (and antes, if they are used). The last level the T500 is needed is the 3000/6000, where you need two for the small blind. I would remove them after that. Keeping them would be equivalent to keeping the T100 around for the 1000/2000, 1500/3000, 2000/4000 etc... levels.

 

[Mr Winberg]

That said, if the tourney ends at 10k/20k

Also, this "tourneys end around the level where there are 20 BBs left" is a rule of thumb. I usually say "no later than" because at that stage at least one player is down to 10BBs or less.

The longer the tourney (relative to the nr of players) the more likely it is that it will end on an earlier level. The more turbo-ish (either due to the format or due to drunk, unfocused players) the more likely it is that the rule is upheld... if not broken! The record in my tournaments is 6.7 BBs left in play, I have no idea how, apparently the wrong player kept winning the all-ins! And that was in a structure that for us usually ends with around 30-50 BBs in play!

 

[BGinGA]

I would. I like to remove chips as soon as they are no longer needed.

Not exactly. My point is that chips are usually only kept for as long as they are needed to cover blinds (and antes, if they are used). The last level the T500 is needed is the 3000/6000, where you need two for the small blind. I would remove them after that. Keeping them would be equivalent to keeping the T100 around for the 1000/2000, 1500/3000, 2000/4000 etc... levels.

Although I generally agree in concept....

I would argue that due to the nature of the T2000 dynamic, the usefulness of the T500 chip extemds beyond the point when they are technically no longer required for posting blinds -- allowing bet increments of T1000, for example, along with some blind structure flexibility in later levels.

Having a good mix of playable denominations in use is a much more desireable outcome imo.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Although I generally agree in concept....

I would argue that due to the nature of the T2000 dynamic, the usefulness of the T500 chip extemds beyond the point when they are technically no longer required for posting blinds -- allowing bet increments of T1000, for example, along with some blind structure flexibility in later levels.

Having a good mix of playable denominations in use is a much more desireable outcome imo.

I've only played 4 tournaments using T2k chips, I'm sure you've played far more. I can only speak from my own experience, which is that I haven't missed the T500s after the 3k/6k level. At 4k/8k, the T2k chips is only half a small blind, I don't think more granularity is needed.

When using "standard-ish" blind structures, chips are usually worth half a small blind when they become the lowest denom:
T100 at 200/400
T500 at 1000/2000
T1000 at 2000/4000
T2000 at 4000/8000
T5000 at 10k/20k

But as I wrote in another thread recently, having chips linger for a few extra levels is no big deal IMO.

 

[allforcharity]

Isn't T10K a little short for a T100 base set? That's only 50BB. I would have thought most T100 base sets are for T30K+, probably mostly around T40K or T50K.

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

Isn't T10K a little short for a T100 base set? That's only 50BB. I would have thought most T100 base sets are for T30K+, probably mostly around T40K or T50K.

Starting at 100-100 it's 100BB. With a smooth progression, it's perfectly playable.

 

[AnteAndy]

Starting at 100-100 it's 100BB. With a smooth progression, it's perfectly playable.

Even though going from 100/100 to 100/200 is a 100% increase in blinds it's ok to have as long as you start above T10k. The league I'm helping run next month I'm having the starting stacks at T15K for 150BB than their usual 100BB SS. That way their 150BB stack would become 75BB in lvl 2 than starting with 100BB and going to 50BB in lvl.

 

[AnteAndy]

Wanted to ask, is it reasonable to possibly just have T100, T1K, & T5K denominations? Since you don't need many T500's for a T100-base set, I thought about the possibility of having a set with these three denominations. Of course for the causal crowd I play with they would most likely prefer to have the T500 included with the set.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Wanted to ask, is it reasonable to possibly just have T100, T1K, & T5K denominations? Since you don't need many T500's for a T100-base set, I thought about the possibility of having a set with these three denominations. Of course for the causal crowd I play with they would most likely prefer to have the T500 included with the set.

Without T500s in play you need a lot more T100. I don't know how many, though. Perhaps 20 per person?

 

[BGinGA]

going from 100/100 to 100/200 is a 100% increase in blinds

It's only a 50% increase in total blinds per orbit.