Stud8 online hand (1 Viewer)

[FDLmold]

Bringin is directly to our right. We're UTG essentially. Do you play this?

 

[upNdown]

With no other clubs showing and high card, I think I have to. But I’ll be pissed if there’s a bet and a raise. I think it might be time for me to track down that book.

 

[FDLmold]

No clubs, no aces, and the low cards that do exist are not great. The king is the highest card we can see and it's live.

In an expert game, early position like this can be killer. This pot is never getting capped and it is infrequently even raised on 3rd street.

 

[Lil Tuna]

Bringin is directly to our right. We're UTG essentially. Do you play this?
View attachment 507851

Yes. No one has anything for at least 2 streets and 1 suite, hearts, you can consider dead. Any club on the next 2 streets is great and if it’s the A of clubs, your chances of winning both ways increases quite a bit.
2 running non club, non pairing low cards possibly keeps you in one more street or running two pair or running trips may keep you in to the river.
Outside of any help as described after 2 streets, it’s a fold.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Yes. No one has anything for at least 2 streets and 1 suite, hearts, you can consider dead. Any club on the next 2 streets is great and if it’s the A of clubs, your chances of winning both ways increases quite a bit.
2 running non club, non pairing low cards possibly keeps you in one more street or running two pair or running trips may keep you in to the river.
Outside of any help as described after 2 streets, it’s a fold.

Agreed with this. I'd rather have the 5 as our up card as that 8 can put us in some tricky spots, but I think we are strong enough here to see the next card

 

[FDLmold]

Seems unanimous. This was not the interesting decision in the hand. Actually, there may not even be an interesting decision in the hand. I'm new to strategy threads. So we call, and end up here:

I don't have many hands with these players, but I had seen "path" raise high up cards before, and that always means a pair. So I put him on a pair of queens here. I think the call is a no brainer here, so we see 4th street.

Brick central! I'm not sure anybody improved. Is this a standard call on 4th street now?

 

[Anthony Martino]

Seems unanimous. This was not the interesting decision in the hand. Actually, there may not even be an interesting decision in the hand. I'm new to strategy threads. So we call, and end up here:

View attachment 507885

I don't have many hands with these players, but I had seen "path" raise high up cards before, and that always means a pair. So I put him on a pair of queens here. I think the call is a no brainer here, so we see 4th street.

View attachment 507884

Brick central! I'm not sure anybody improved. Is this a standard call on 4th street now?

I'd probably let this go here

 

[Lil Tuna]

Seems unanimous. This was not the interesting decision in the hand. Actually, there may not even be an interesting decision in the hand. I'm new to strategy threads. So we call, and end up here:

View attachment 507885

I don't have many hands with these players, but I had seen "path" raise high up cards before, and that always means a pair. So I put him on a pair of queens here. I think the call is a no brainer here, so we see 4th street.

View attachment 507884

Brick central! I'm not sure anybody improved. Is this a standard call on 4th street now?

One more brick is a fold. Queens are dead. Your now back door flush to another backdoor flush, (spades) and up against a possible straight but unlikely considering two dead kings.
I see one more card. You are now in best position to take down half the pot with a possible low and you still have the highest hand showing.
One more street in my opinion, fold if it’s a brick both ways.

 

[upNdown]

I'd probably let this go here

Me too. It’s frustrating when you have every reason to believe somebody’s weak, but so reason to believe you can beat them. ive seen Occasional success bluffing on 5th street and 7th street, when they’ve got nothing. But multi-handed when you’ve got plenty of nothing - I’d let it go.

 

[Lil Tuna]

Me too. It’s frustrating when you have every reason to believe somebody’s weak, but so reason to believe you can beat them. ive seen Occasional success bluffing on 5th street and 7th street, when they’ve got nothing. But multi-handed when you’ve got plenty of nothing - I’d let it go.

Still willing to gamble one more street myself but understand yours and Anthony’s thoughts. If the others brick the next street and I improve, I make them pay for the next street.

 

[upNdown]

Still willing to gamble one more street myself but understand yours and Anthony’s thoughts. If the others brick the next street and I improve, I make them pay for the next street.

And that might be smart; I dunno
I gotta read that book

 

[Lil Tuna]

And that might be smart; I dunno
I gotta read that book

Risk/Reward. If I play for a living, it’s probably a fold. I don’t play for a living anymore so I got a little more gamble in me now. I can still represent Kings up here. Bricks next street for my opponents and a pair for me, I can represent the boat. Didn’t see any 5s or 8s in my opponents hands.

 

[Lil Tuna]

This street is checked anyway based on what’s showing. Free card baby!

 

[FDLmold]

So NOT unanimous to continue here. I can't remember what I was thinking, other than bettor has two queens, the other two queens just died, and clubs are still pretty live and we can still scoop. According to the book, one of your biggest fears is bad position and getting jammed while you are justifiably chasing. A big mistake is chasing only half the pot multiway when you are not very good in that direction.

I made a bunch of screenshots of the hand. I know I called, but I forget what happens next. Let's look, shall we?

The action is check, check, to us. Bet or check?

 

[DrStrange]

I check and expect path to bet. Path had first action on 4th street and bet plus path was the big aggressor on 3rd street. Path's hand got better of 5th street. Might even have Broadway. From his point of view he is facing two low draws and a shabby pair.

I think Hero is getting a good enough price to draw, but not enough value for Hero to get aggressive. Let's keep in mind the club draw is minimally damaged by the three clubs in sight - mostly because the lowest clubs are gone.

Best sixth street card(s) for hero are low clubs. That way he can fire away and plausibly be freerolling with a made low hoping to somehow scoop.

 

[FDLmold]

Sooooooo, it checked around ?!? Free sixth street for me!

If the ace had helped path, he would have bet 5th, so clockwise from me, I see a pair (2 pair if lucky), a busted low, a made low (or 4 to a low plus a pair), and my flush draw with 4 outs, plus what could very well be the best hand.

The action is check, check to us. (Clearly not a made low in the seat to my right) You're supposed to bet in Stud8! So should I?

 

[Lil Tuna]

Sooooooo, it checked around ?!? Free sixth street for me!
View attachment 512449

If the ace had helped path, he would have bet 5th, so clockwise from me, I see a pair (2 pair if lucky), a busted low, a made low (or 4 to a low plus a pair), and my flush draw with 4 outs, plus what could very well be the best hand.

The action is check, check to us. (Clearly not a made low in the seat to my right) You're supposed to bet in Stud8! So should I?

Max Bet.

 

[RainmanTrail]

FWIW, I played a ton of Stud8 back when I played professionally. It was one of my best games. In my opinion, this is a classic example of a hand that most players think is worth playing but is actually a huge, huge leak (and no, I'm not a nit). The progression of this hand across the later streets really highlights that fact too. Here are my thoughts.

3rd street

Bringin is directly to our right. We're UTG essentially. Do you play this?

No. Never. Not in any game ever. Not even in the juiciest of games. This is a prime example of a trap hand. The only value this has is from steal position, which you are not in, so you need to be folding this every time and get it out of your head that this is a good hand to play. In Stud8, you want to play scoop hands. You want to have a good chance at both the high and the low, or a really strong hand one way with some potential for the other half of the pot. You can also play strong high only hands in certain spots to scoop, but you need to have a lot of experience to know how to play high only hands. As a general rule of thumb, you shouldn't even be playing hands like (Qx)Q or even (xK)K. The problem with your hand here is that you are thinking you have a two way hand because you have 3 clubs and 2 lows. But your hand is super weak in both directions. Your 3 clubs are completely unconnected, and flushes don't come along often enough to justify coming into the pot here in this hand even if you were playing just stud hi from under the gun. But you're not even playing stud high, this is Stud8, and you need low hand potential too. But you don't have low potential. You have an 85. 8s don't play very well in Stud8, and even if you run out miraculously for low, you'll have a rough 8 at best. That's not what you want. You want 3 low cards out of the gate. The only exception to this rule would be if you had a hand like (Kc3c)Ac where you had an AK for high pair potential, 3 to the flush, and two strong low cards plus steal potential with the Ace in the door. But you can't scare anyone at all with an 8c in your door. And you're forever relegated to playing the hand passively because of it. Not only is this not a playable hand, it's a huge leak. Throw it away.

4th street

Brick central! I'm not sure anybody improved. Is this a standard call on 4th street now?

No!!! Please don't call here. This is a nightmare card for you. You need to improve on 4th street in Stud8 to continue, almost always (with a few exceptions for raised pots on 3rd street with very strong starting hands).

5th street

The action is check, check, to us. Bet or check?

You don't have a strong hand here. You should be checking this and folding to any bets. You don't want to play a one-way KK in Stud 8 on 5th street vs potential lows, an Ace on board, and someone else pairing their door card. Calling here would be a mistake. Betting here should be grounds for calling you a cab.

6th street

The action is check, check to us. (Clearly not a made low in the seat to my right) You're supposed to bet in Stud8! So should I?

No. Just hope for a free showdown.

 

[pltrgyst]

....3rd street
No. Never. Not in any game ever. Not even in the juiciest of games. This is a prime example of a trap hand. The only value this has is from steal position, which you are not in, so you need to be folding this every time and get it out of your head that this is a good hand to play. In Stud8, you want to play scoop hands. You want to have a good chance at both the high and the low, or a really strong hand one way with some potential for the other half of the pot. You can also play strong high only hands in certain spots to scoop, but you need to have a lot of experience to know how to play high only hands. As a general rule of thumb, you shouldn't even be playing hands like (Qx)Q or even (xK)K. The problem with your hand here is that you are thinking you have a two way hand because you have 3 clubs and 2 lows. But your hand is super weak in both directions. Your 3 clubs are completely unconnected, and flushes don't come along often enough to justify coming into the pot here in this hand even if you were playing just stud hi from under the gun. But you're not even playing stud high, this is Stud8, and you need low hand potential too. But you don't have low potential. You have an 85. 8s don't play very well in Stud8, and even if you run out miraculously for low, you'll have a rough 8 at best. That's not what you want. You want 3 low cards out of the gate. The only exception to this rule would be if you had a hand like (Kc3c)Ac where you had an AK for high pair potential, 3 to the flush, and two strong low cards plus steal potential with the Ace in the door. But you can't scare anyone at all with an 8c in your door. And you're forever relegated to playing the hand passively because of it. Not only is this not a playable hand, it's a huge leak. Throw it away.

Gospel.

 

[FDLmold]

Plenty of good advice for me. Appreciate it. I don't think there were any more interesting decisions. Seventh was checked around and I won the high half with a pair of kings. Player to my right made his low on seventh.

My first few sessions of Stud8 micro were losers. Was in WAY too many hands on 4th and 5th streets. My last three sessions have been better, although one was a significant loser because I caught bad on fifth street and later in every significant hand. I'll dig through my history to try to find some more interesting decisions for discussion.

 

[RainmanTrail]

Another tip for playing Stud8 that might help is knowing when to continue on 4th street. If you're playing for the low, you should almost always be folding 4th street if you brick. Your first 3 cards need to be really strong for you to be able to call through a bad card on 4th. I'm talking like 3 to a steel wheel good. Even a hand like (56)7 should be folding 4th street if a Jack peels off for you and any of your opponents catch a decent looking card.

 

[FDLmold]

Another tip for playing Stud8 that might help is knowing when to continue on 4th street. If you're playing for the low, you should almost always be folding 4th street if you brick. Your first 3 cards need to be really strong for you to be able to call through a bad card on 4th. I'm talking like 3 to a steel wheel good. Even a hand like (56)7 should be folding 4th street if a Jack peels off for you and any of your opponents catch a decent looking card.

That is precisely the subject of my new stud8 thread! Fourth street brick while going low.

 

[RainmanTrail]

Another leak I see a lot of players making is thinking that just because you have 3 low cards that you have a playable hand. It is a mistake to play weak 3 card lows from early position. You need to have some steal potential to make a hand like profitable. It just doesn't have enough high potential, and it often makes a second best low. Stud games are all about playing only strong hands from early position balanced with stealing the antes with speculative hands in the right spots.

 

[RainmanTrail]

I know this isn't the hand we're discussing, but I figured while we're on the topic of 3rd street decisions in Stud8, that this is something worth addressing for anyone coming here to looking improve their game. Here's an example of why hands like 826 rainbow suck in Stud8. Mind you, almost all strong Stud8 players are folding this 7TT hand 90% of the time, but this is what you're hoping to be up against when you play something like 3 random unconnected low cards. This is your dream scenario really; being heads up against a single opponent who is going high only with a fairly weak holding. You definitely don't want to be up against a better low draw or even just a random Ace in the door. You're a dog to every playable hand with a hand like this. Which means this hand only holds value when your fold equity is high.

This is basically your best case scenario situation with a hand like this. Try playing around with calculators and throw in a few other random playable hands and look at your equity. If you find yourself playing these types of hands and can't figure out why you're having losing sessions, this is why.