Cash Game Your stance on straddles (7 Viewers)

[SixSpeedFury]

What are your stances on straddling in a cash game? I've been reading different articles recently regarding this topic so I am curious to know what the varying opinions are amongst players.

 

[ThinkingFold]

We play UTG only and x5 BB max ( rounded up so .25/.50 is $3 ). Doesn't really get used all that much but I'm a fan.

 

[Rhodeman77]

UTG only. In our $1/2 game the straddle is to $5.

The local casino now allows Button straddles, which I hate because I caused the blinds to play better and fold more often when they would otherwise defend more if the were the last to act.

So players ask me a lot or just try it if they are new to the game and I have to remind them that UTG only can straddle.

 

[BGinGA]

Hate 'em. Just means that the stakes are too low.

 

[DoubleEagle]

We do UTG and button straddles. I’m not a fan but the aggro’s love them. Maybe I’m a nit.

 

[gopherblue]

I never straddle but I’m ok if someone does. Especially if I’m dealt a big pair and have position.

 

[Meathooke]

Over all, not a fan...
Same as @Rhodeman77 mentioned, the casino here in Columbus also allows for either UTG or button straddles… I can deal with UTG, but REALLY dislike the button option.

 

[fieldsy]

I don't personally like to straddle and almost never do with strangers in cardrooms because I think it's absolutely -EV, but I'll do it occasionally in home games if it gets the action going. In our home game we allow the straddle UTG or on the button (which seems to be the rule in most Nevada rooms, our closest gambling market). That does open up the question as to where action starts with a button straddle, since some rooms start with the SB and others don't. I've played places that start action UTG when the button straddles, then proceed around but skip the player on the button unless there has been a raise, before going back to the button after the SB and BB. I think the easier rule is to start on the SB, so that's what we do.

I think UTG straddle is better for the table ("creating action"), but the button straddle is probably a better individual play. At least you have position in a pot you're locking yourself into playing.

 

[Coyote]

It's basically twisting the rules (the stakes in this case). If you dislike the stakes, play at another table.
It's an act I believe to be of distinctly heroic/rebel rural provenance, appealing to people who are either drunk or of low self-esteem, still wanting to do something.
It should be absolutely banned, along with a truckload of other heroic-nihilist-disrespectful, rural behaviours at the table.
My humble 2c.

 

[PlaidDragon]

We don't use straddles at all.

 

[Highli99]

I played in New Orleans years ago and they had a straddle where anyone could do it but the button could always override. It was weird because a dedicated straddler could do it every hand of the orbit and the only way to stop them was to do it yourself.

 

[sir bluffs alot]

First off, I never straddle. But I totally don’t care when someone else does. Nothing gives me more pleasure than waking up with a hand in the blinds and blowing the straddle off his hand...

 

[DoubleEagle]

Hate 'em. Just means that the stakes are too low.

IMO it doesn’t matter. The degen aggros are going to straddle regardless of the stakes.

 

[Jambine]

I never straddle, but you're welcome to (as much as you like)

 

[kk405]

Never in our games. Straddles are only needed in super nitty games. If you want to play bigger, just raise the blinds. And if you need a lot of action, invite loose agro players who raise 10-20xBB preflop when opening

 

[Jimulacrum]

I used to absolutely hate straddles, but I've come around to them.

The main drawback of a straddle is obvious: you're throwing dead money into the pot. If it's an UTG straddle (and it's more than 3- or 4-handed), it's dead money plus bloating a pot where you will most likely play out of position. You may also get yourself involved in a pot you shouldn't have played, catching awkward hands that may be difficult to play.

But there are benefits too. Whether the benefits outweigh or break even on the drawbacks is a question to answer from game to game. Consider:

• It may create a wild and loose table image.
• It may stimulate otherwise slow action.
• It may effectively bump up the stakes in a game where you're a big favorite (especially if the below point is met).
• It may encourage other players to straddle, even if they don't stand to gain any real benefit from it.
• It may cause other players to tighten up significantly, leaving you playing a lot of hands in position against the blinds (especially if short-handed).
• It may invite mistakes from players who are super-comfortable playing with the specific blinds (e.g., they lose their sense of raise and stack sizes relative to the blinds).
• It may induce tilt in players who have an irrational hatred of straddling.
• If a button straddle, it may allow you to play a lot of bloated pots in position (especially advantageous if the blinds often defend).

More often than not, these conditions will be met in a home game rather than a public cardroom, but a straddle can be a solid move in a public cardroom sometimes as well—particularly if there are multiple weak-tight players, it is short-handed, and/or a button straddle is allowed.

From the perspective of my own play and tendencies over the years, the players who hate straddles the most tend to be the ones who play the most predictably (and often nittily). A lot of the time, they're scared of playing a little higher, even if only for one hand. Players who get mad at other players for making stupid plays also tend to get frustrated by straddles, and it's friggin' hilarious. Spreading that bit of good-natured irritation around the table can go a long way.

 

[RocAFella1]

I love them personally. It creates more action while allowing for deeper stack play. We also play mandatory straddles for ace(s) on the board. One ace, one straddle. Four aces, four straddles.

 

[JustinInMN]

I think all 3 answers could be true. It's certainly negative ev to straddle, but that makes it positive ev for the other players that know how to play against straddles. (Good for building pots.)

I usually will go along of we're doing a round. I think it's also beneficial to know who thinks straddles are good play, usually indicative of what style to expect. (Good in situations, but mainly when the situation is someone else straddling.)

 

[MrCatPants]

A regular straddler is just playing at the wrong table or with the wrong group. I've never really understood why you'd let an individual player change the stakes that everyone agreed to when you showed up or sat at the table.

 

[Jimulacrum]

A regular straddler is just playing at the wrong table or with the wrong group. I've never really understood why you'd let an individual player change the stakes that everyone agreed to when you showed up or sat at the table.

That player isn't changing the stakes, though, any more than you're changing the stakes when you raise.

 

[Coyote]

That player isn't changing the stakes, though, any more than you're changing the stakes when you raise.

Raise in relation to what?
I could agree if there were no blinds, just no-limit table stakes.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Raise in relation to what?
I could agree if there were no blinds, just no-limit table stakes.

When you raise, as in it's $2 to you, and you make it $7. You're making the price of poker go up for that hand, same as he is. But the base stakes of $1/$2 or whatever remain the same.

 

[BGinGA]

I disagree. The cost to play a hand has increased before any cards have even been seen. If he wants to raise blind (and not also gain a last-to-act advantage in the process), fine.

But it certainly does increase the cost to play, even though the base stakes remains the same.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I disagree. The cost to play a hand has increased before any cards have even been seen. If he wants to raise blind (and not also gain a last-to-act advantage in the process), fine.

But it certainly does increase the cost to play, even though the base stakes remains the same.

This is true, but the player does this entirely at his own expense, and only for the one hand.

What MrCatPants said is "I've never really understood why you'd let an individual player change the stakes that everyone agreed to when you showed up or sat at the table."

And I kinda get that objection. It used to piss me off when people straddled. After a while, I figured out why: it made me uneasy. I came prepared to play $0.25/$0.50 or $1/$2 or whatever, and that's all I was prepared to play. I had come to sit quietly and wait for my top 15% or whatever of hands, and make my predetermined PFR and 3-bet sizes, and play with the stack sizes I was used to. Someone putting out a straddle would offend my inner nit and shake me out of my comfort zone.

But the player who straddles isn't doing anything wrong. He's not undoing the implicit agreement among players to play a particular game for particular stakes. He's not "chang[ing] the stakes." If the house rules permit straddling, it's entirely within the rules. It's part and parcel of the stakes and game type you're playing, and you should adjust to it like any other rule instead of letting it rattle you.

 

[MrCatPants]

But the player who straddles isn't doing anything wrong. He's not undoing the implicit agreement among players to play a particular game for particular stakes. He's not "chang[ing] the stakes." If the house rules permit straddling, it's entirely within the rules. It's part and parcel of the stakes and game type you're playing, and you should adjust to it like any other rule instead of letting it rattle you.

If it's in the rules, sure. But I don't have to like it and I don't have to allow it at my game either. But why straddle in the first place? What's the point other than to make that hand, in general, more expensive for the table?

My experience with straddlers in games has generally been that they straddle every single opportunity they have.

 

[upNdown]

I think it's funny. The guys in my home game think I HATE straddles, because I never straddle myself, and I often complain when they do. But honestly, I like it when people straddle, for the reasons others have said - I get to look at my cards before deciding to play at higher stakes - I think that's great.
I will admit to being annoyed if the same guy, three to my left, ALWAYS straddles, because then it feels like he's messing with my button. But again, I'm good with adapting to that too.

 

[Jimulacrum]

If it's in the rules, sure. But I don't have to like it and I don't have to allow it at my game either. But why straddle in the first place? What's the point other than to make that hand, in general, more expensive for the table?

My experience with straddlers in games has generally been that they straddle every single opportunity they have.

I listed several advantages in an earlier post. One of the most notable is throwing other players out of their comfort zones.

Some folks play a very fixed kind of strategy. They've been playing standard, 9-handed NLHE with $1 and $2 blinds and $200–400 stacks since 1986. They raise the exact same hands from the exact same positions for the exact same amounts, like clockwork. They get irritated when people make disproportionate preflop raises like $15 and $20, expecting that everyone "knows" you should raise about 3 times the BB. Stuff like that.

This is typical of an "Old Man, Coffee" kind of player. Throw in a straddle, and he rolls his eyes in disdain. Why? Because he only learned this one game with these exact parameters, and you're forcing him to do something slightly different. He doesn't know how to play $1/$2/$5 NLHE. It scares him.

This is great for the straddler. If it throws OMC and perhaps a couple other players off their game, it means they'll be more prone to errors, easier to tilt, and generally weaker opponents. And all it cost was some hard-to-measure fraction of $5, once in a while.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I will admit to being annoyed if the same guy, three to my left, ALWAYS straddles, because then it feels like he's messing with my button. But again, I'm good with adapting to that too.

If anyone at the table is straddling, you want it to be precisely the guy three to your left. In fact, if you know where the likely straddler is sitting, you should go out of your way to sit three to his right. Can you see why?

 

[upNdown]

If anyone at the table is straddling, you want it to be precisely the guy three to your left. In fact, if you know where the likely straddler is sitting, you should go out of your way to sit three to his right. Can you see why?

I totally get it. But like I said, it's an adjustment. From a guy who's used to playing tournaments and likes to play his buttons the way he wants to, it's a bit of an adjustment. But yes, of course you're right.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I totally get it. But like I said, it's an adjustment. From a guy who's used to playing tournaments and likes to play his buttons the way he wants to, it's a bit of an adjustment. But yes, of course you're right.

That's understandable. I'm personally a wild 'n' crazy cash-game player, so I have a different take on it.

I occasionally play with a small tournament group that does up to 2 tables, and it's almost always the same group from week to week. When I started coming to the game, a few players commented on my aggressive play, my sometimes unorthodox raise sizes, and in general the fact that my approach to the game was different than theirs. I really made a splash. Some of them would even openly whine about being in pots with me, essentially because they were always feeling unsure of how to interpret my plays.

Aside from a couple outliers, they're all nits. They learned "tight is right" a long time ago and have never expanded beyond that. They're almost offended by LAG play and don't really understand how to respond to it. For precisely that reason, it's often a great strategy to use against them.

It's one of those things about tournaments. I feel like tournament players develop a lot of bad habits that, though they more or less work out in tournaments, become big liabilities in cash games. One of them is getting frustrated by straddles. You have to embrace the straddle, or it'll do exactly what the straddler wants it to do to you.