Does Reza play plo or big o? Asking for a friend.
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Windwalker on Hustler Casino Live?!?!?!?!?!? (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bill_Man618
- Start date
CrazyEddie
Full House
... a new button that has the name of Nick's production company on it, but doesn't have the name of the casino where it's being played.
Not this again! Those guys did go to a weird school….
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
Remember to stick to your story if your in preflop. It’s not a read, its your 2 card story. If they check twice in hold em you hammer unless it’s a really wet board. No free cards on the river, esp againt 2+ players. That’s like checking turns in PLO and everyone knows we usually pump it or dump it against 4+ cards. The hand showed a story of being ahead (33) on the turn. Way ahead. Not sure but memory says U projected a/x pre flop if I remember oh ya and I know it’s hard but be more selective pre flop with multiple players ESP raised pots out of position. One of the big losses I saw episode 1 or 2 (went back today cuz finished squid games) was u in a hand you should not of even seen the flop. Wanna say 9s multiple players and raised out of position. You spiked it in the window (set) I believe and you still lost by the river. IMO a you Should of NEVER been in to begin with. Easy pre flop fold. No money lost. Trap hands scream fold in hold em. Two villains is too much company with 99 raised. That’s like being up against a good PLO hand. Anyways KIM that small pair crap in a raised multi way pot is for the birds, birds are bottom feeders.
Oh and always hesitate and look LEFT before acting. It will deff help. Good luck.
Oh and always hesitate and look LEFT before acting. It will deff help. Good luck.
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Senzrock
Full House
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
Keep it up coach.
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
Another thing too. Your post flop play is sub par for this field. Bet sizing is often way off, checking when you should bet, betting when you should check, and if you feel like that may be slightly true being more selective pre flop and folding 10/10 or 9/9 out of position multi ways raised is the play for now. Once you get your post flop play PRO and bet sizing solid then you can think about opening your pre flop range. I know how hard it is to make money on the street and I hate seeing you lose it to poker players. You can do this. After watching your witty chipping here, I believe you naturally have exactly what it takes to crush poker consistently, and you have a natural needle. Now you just need the polish wax. I’d take a poker class to achieve that. Galfond and the guy who beat Dnegs heads up DOUG POLK come to mind as potentials. Lots of charts (ranges) and memory but it helps a lottttt. They cost a grand but it’s worth it. ESP of you jump to PLO which I don’t recommend at all at this time, but you will eventually as it’s truly the “great game” and I know guys like you don’t wanna miss it! Good luck & God bless.
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Not sure why first-in you are limping J9 off. I would think if we're going to play that hand at least come in for a raise so we can narrow the field and rep more boards.
Regardless, what the hell is Reza doing calling this raise OOP?
Regardless, what the hell is Reza doing calling this raise OOP?
It was sooted!
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Oh, I see, lol! Still prefer a preflop raise here rather than limp-call, but nice result
Stufflymcstuff
Flush
Lots of questionable advice offered but that’s pretty standard in poker. Would be funny if we could map out how much everyone giving advice actually has made grinding cash games - no doubt you’d find that most are sub 100k but krish has little way of knowing.
It’s a shame because there’re tons of things he’s doing that are clear errors where the mistakes are very costly - unlike preflop mistakes which are often a fraction of a big blind mistake at most.
Good example is the KJ8x 2 flush board, 3 way pot. Krish opened with 1010, someone flats in position, Andy flats in blinds. Flop gets checked through, Andy leads and krish jams (I think) around 2x pot. This is a train wreck all in. You couldn’t find a worse hand to shove here with and Andy isn’t so imbalanced or giving off obvious tells as to make this defensible.
When youre contemplating this all in, absent of some very strong read on opponents there’re two considerations - equity when called and blocking properties. Tens has worse equity when called than even a gutshot, because you’re not getting called by unpaired hands and you’re in almost all cases drawing to 2 cards. If you can move in profitably with tens against Andy it’s because you habitually have been underbluffing in other spots and he thinks you’re a major nit (and I can assure you this is not his read on you).
The blocker aspect is much smaller because so little action has occurred postflop that ranges are somewhat wide but it’s important to get in the habit of using them against strong players because youre going to need some way of choosing when to bluff or call down, and these do show appreciable differences in the ev of close decisions especially on later streets.
… When holding two tens (one was of the flush draw suit) you greatly diminish the number of open enders Andy could be bluffing with as well as several of the flush draws. Andy isn’t leading here with air and, certainly not with underpairs and probably not weak made hands like Jx so having what you had does skew his bets more heavily towards value and not by a trivial amount.
Even if you thought Andy was overfolding here because of the ebb and flow of the game, he’d have to be way overfolding for shoving with so little equity to work and if he was - it’s generally because you haven’t been pulling the trigger in other spots that are much more profitable bluffs.
It’s a shame because there’re tons of things he’s doing that are clear errors where the mistakes are very costly - unlike preflop mistakes which are often a fraction of a big blind mistake at most.
Good example is the KJ8x 2 flush board, 3 way pot. Krish opened with 1010, someone flats in position, Andy flats in blinds. Flop gets checked through, Andy leads and krish jams (I think) around 2x pot. This is a train wreck all in. You couldn’t find a worse hand to shove here with and Andy isn’t so imbalanced or giving off obvious tells as to make this defensible.
When youre contemplating this all in, absent of some very strong read on opponents there’re two considerations - equity when called and blocking properties. Tens has worse equity when called than even a gutshot, because you’re not getting called by unpaired hands and you’re in almost all cases drawing to 2 cards. If you can move in profitably with tens against Andy it’s because you habitually have been underbluffing in other spots and he thinks you’re a major nit (and I can assure you this is not his read on you).
The blocker aspect is much smaller because so little action has occurred postflop that ranges are somewhat wide but it’s important to get in the habit of using them against strong players because youre going to need some way of choosing when to bluff or call down, and these do show appreciable differences in the ev of close decisions especially on later streets.
… When holding two tens (one was of the flush draw suit) you greatly diminish the number of open enders Andy could be bluffing with as well as several of the flush draws. Andy isn’t leading here with air and, certainly not with underpairs and probably not weak made hands like Jx so having what you had does skew his bets more heavily towards value and not by a trivial amount.
Even if you thought Andy was overfolding here because of the ebb and flow of the game, he’d have to be way overfolding for shoving with so little equity to work and if he was - it’s generally because you haven’t been pulling the trigger in other spots that are much more profitable bluffs.
Stufflymcstuff
Flush
There are also some timing tells that I’d suggest you correct for against Garrett, Andy and maybe a few others.
I haven’t seen enough hands to get something reliable but you seem to be falling into the tendency of fast bets being bluff heavy and slow laboured decisions being value heavy. I would suggest when you bluff the next few times (specifically against garret or Andy) to pause, look at your cards and then do a very subtle sigh before betting - they’re kind of forced to interpret it as strength the first few times they see it. I would rather offer reverse tells in that direction since when they work you can get away with them a second and third time whereas if you did a reverse tell on strong hands and it worked, they’d immediately adjust.
None of this applies to novice players though (which is most of them).
I haven’t seen enough hands to get something reliable but you seem to be falling into the tendency of fast bets being bluff heavy and slow laboured decisions being value heavy. I would suggest when you bluff the next few times (specifically against garret or Andy) to pause, look at your cards and then do a very subtle sigh before betting - they’re kind of forced to interpret it as strength the first few times they see it. I would rather offer reverse tells in that direction since when they work you can get away with them a second and third time whereas if you did a reverse tell on strong hands and it worked, they’d immediately adjust.
None of this applies to novice players though (which is most of them).
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
I like to stake percentages in all kinds of poker races but… I think it’s best if we see more pre flop folds (less calls) out of position and in raised pots at this point in his game. Oh youstake.com comes to mind a little later once the bet sizing and timing is dialed.
It’s nice to put ones money where his mouth is, gamble along, and support players.
Sign up WW, only takes a second and those who believe can pony up even if it’s only $100 or less… your believers can wager along…
Your point has merit but solving preflop stuff has way of cascading down the decision tree, since for most people that means folding more and using a more aggressive approach for hands you do choose to play. Plus position should be better if you are ranging correctly in each position. Get this right and you end up in fewer quirky situations.
Catching up Garret and Andy’s post flop navigation abilities is going to require more time and effort than most recreational players can commit.
Senzrock
Full House
For what it's worth, if you are going to critique a spot, you should at least correctly relay the hand.
Andy actually squeezes against a late position open and 3bets to 4k. Krish wakes up with TT in the bb, out of position to the field but in position to the squeezer. Pre-flop calls for a mixed strategy of 4betting, calling and occasionally actually folding. It's a very tricky spot given the dynamics. Calling could be profitable long term, but, unfortunately it's very clear what hero has when we cold call here (88,99,TT,JJ + AQs/AKo) because he 4bets stronger and folds a lot of other hands.
So... Andy squeezes (which we know he likes to do, and should be doing vs a late position open because Jarrett should have a wide range here), but then checks the flop. When Andy makes a delayed cbet in this spot once the 7 comes out, it's not a great story he is telling imo. Krish and I discussed the jam here and why, after reviewing the hand, we prefer a call to the jam, but there are way worse hands to jam with in this spot given that we block the nuts and our range is actually perceived to be quite strong imo. Andy should be cbetting AA, AK, KK, JJ on this flop but he noticeable checks this flop because when his squeeze doesn't get through, he knows that Krish's range is *extremely strong* calling that 4bet pre. Krish has the range advantage here (he holds JJ, 88 + 77), and while we rarely cold call T9s pre-flop, TT should be performing decently on this turn as played.
@Anthony Martino I do agree that generally we should not be limping in with hands like J9 pre. There is a dynamic where many of our hands get 3bet but still end up going multi-way, so limp-calling is one strategy to offset having to raise-fold too many marginal hands. Having said that, I think one of the reasons our VPIP has been so low is that we have been limping too many hands vs opening them for standard sizing. J9o is generally just easy fold pre of course but we can mix in a few limp calls and proceed with caution.
Loving the conversations though, let's keep them going!
Senzrock
Full House
Hand in question is at the 1hr and 7 minute mark:
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
Nailed it.
Senzrock
Full House
This is actually a major misconception as @Highli99 pointed out. The thing we have *most* direct control over is our pre-flop play. This is where we can save (and make) lots of money, by playing a tighter (stronger) range across a variety of boards. Small pre-flop mistakes can actually magnify tremendously over each street to the point where don't realize that the problem in our play actually lies in our pre-flop strategy by the time we are debating whether or not to call a $20k river bet.
Stufflymcstuff
Flush
thanks for clarification, didn’t know where to find the hh. With the gutshot it’s slightly better but preflop action does not improve the situation - it eliminates a lot of the weaker Kx hands that Andy could be betting with which are the value hands that will be the ones you’re banking on getting folds from.
Andy’s story is as unreasonable as Krish’s going to the turn. They can both be slow playing a set, both be pot controlling top pair, yet both will be predominantly playing these as bets.
As far as hand choice goes, even either the gutshot any flush draw is better, QT is better, 98 is better, 97 is better… there are tons that are better shoves and not many value hands so you don’t really want to be reaching too far down the well to find bluff shoves.
Do you not agree that this is demonstrative of a problem with fundamentals?
Andy’s story is as unreasonable as Krish’s going to the turn. They can both be slow playing a set, both be pot controlling top pair, yet both will be predominantly playing these as bets.
As far as hand choice goes, even either the gutshot any flush draw is better, QT is better, 98 is better, 97 is better… there are tons that are better shoves and not many value hands so you don’t really want to be reaching too far down the well to find bluff shoves.
Do you not agree that this is demonstrative of a problem with fundamentals?
Stufflymcstuff
Flush
There’s no question that preflop mistakes can be big, but I’m talking about the limp with J9 and other similar limps/flats that most of the feedback is centerer around. Clearly it can’t be more than a 1bb error in and of itself and I’d argue the limp is actually profitable if you play well postflop given the lineup. It may not be for him right now and you could argue that he should focus on tightening up first and then loosening when he figures the rest out, but i don’t think he doesn’t realize that these limps are “bad” - it’s more that he wants to have fun. Whereas the postflop mistakes are more a matter of not understanding how to structure ranges.
Senzrock
Full House
I am not quite sure I understand your question but I will do my best to answer!
Pre-flop: I don't love the cold call because a great player like Andy can put us on a tight range and blow us off the hand post. Having said that, I think we often still have the best hand pre. This can sounds like a contradiction but I don't think it is. I like a 5bet pre (our best option), given the dynamic between the aggressive player (Jarrett) who opens in late position and the fact that we sense that Andy is taking advantage of that with a sb squeeze. It's a tough spot for us as an amateur player.
Flop: Standard on our end. Andy checks (surprising to me after repping the big hand pre, most of which will want to continue). Once it checks through, we often have the best hand, potentially behind vs hands like QQ or AJ. Once Andy checks here, he is largely giving up vs opponents strong ranges.
Turn: Andy makes a delayed Cbet and our default should be to just call here (as I stated in my initial post). When we shove, even with our blockers, we are kind of crossing our fingers that no one was slow playing a monster. Generally, in poker, we don't want to hope and pray. Having said that, I think putting TT into our raise/shove range is not the worst of hands. Sure we block QT, but in my opinion, QT often bets on that flop (Andy should be Cbetting that and Jarrett last to act probably bets something to pick up the dead money) so I am less concerned about that. I think our hand is perceived as very strong, and we could actually get a hand like AJ (maybe even QQ?) to fold this turn. Again, not my play of choice, but I would challenge ourselves to put us in villains shoes and figure out what hand we think Krish has here that we are making a $30k call against? Krish can have all sets and villain can easily fold 2nd/3rd/under pair to this action.
If your larger point is that we need to work on fundamentals. Then... yes! That's part of this process. Poker fundamentals often take several years to really learn and internalize. We can understand a play theoretically, but putting it practice at the table requires some additional experience. This is the same for any of us here, and it's the same for hero.
Pre-flop: I don't love the cold call because a great player like Andy can put us on a tight range and blow us off the hand post. Having said that, I think we often still have the best hand pre. This can sounds like a contradiction but I don't think it is. I like a 5bet pre (our best option), given the dynamic between the aggressive player (Jarrett) who opens in late position and the fact that we sense that Andy is taking advantage of that with a sb squeeze. It's a tough spot for us as an amateur player.
Flop: Standard on our end. Andy checks (surprising to me after repping the big hand pre, most of which will want to continue). Once it checks through, we often have the best hand, potentially behind vs hands like QQ or AJ. Once Andy checks here, he is largely giving up vs opponents strong ranges.
Turn: Andy makes a delayed Cbet and our default should be to just call here (as I stated in my initial post). When we shove, even with our blockers, we are kind of crossing our fingers that no one was slow playing a monster. Generally, in poker, we don't want to hope and pray. Having said that, I think putting TT into our raise/shove range is not the worst of hands. Sure we block QT, but in my opinion, QT often bets on that flop (Andy should be Cbetting that and Jarrett last to act probably bets something to pick up the dead money) so I am less concerned about that. I think our hand is perceived as very strong, and we could actually get a hand like AJ (maybe even QQ?) to fold this turn. Again, not my play of choice, but I would challenge ourselves to put us in villains shoes and figure out what hand we think Krish has here that we are making a $30k call against? Krish can have all sets and villain can easily fold 2nd/3rd/under pair to this action.
If your larger point is that we need to work on fundamentals. Then... yes! That's part of this process. Poker fundamentals often take several years to really learn and internalize. We can understand a play theoretically, but putting it practice at the table requires some additional experience. This is the same for any of us here, and it's the same for hero.
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
I’m comfortable with j/9 off multi way oop. Wouldn’t recommend it though. I’ve also been staked on a big stage final table that is live streamed (WPT) with stakers watching and on the rail. I’ve also played for a living and averaged well over 6 figs a year. Hell Ive had a six fig month, still don’t think it’s a solid play at this time in his game. Not sure his percentages but who cares. Make them lower WW your bet sizing post flop is just too far off the sweet spot. Practice single table turbo sit and go’s to help polish that void. The blinds will go up fast and you will need to adjust bet sizing almost non stop to dominate. Should be getting 3rd or better out of 10 on almost every sit and go if you play your cards and bet right and u can find out in about an hour or two.
CrazyEddie
Full House
Nice hat.
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
Ty. Was last min crazy hat day at the WPT. Everyone but the dealer (Carolyn) and the old guy (yamika) had hats on. Even saw a Kangol. I had a local friend who dances on poles hook me up. It was deff good luck and made for great live poker.
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Beat me to it
Stufflymcstuff
Flush
I should hope you can get AJ and QQ to fold because those are probably the worst value hands he’ll have. when Andy bets 2/3rds pot he should have a lot more value than bluffs.
On the other hand Krish had to put in 34k to win 21k in the center. Let’s say he has about 13% equity when called. after a call the pot is about 75k.
So he has a bit under 10k equity when called vs folding and having 34k for a loss of 24k.
When he gets a fold he wins 21k.
Therefor the bluff has to get through about 55% of the time to been even. And since Andy’s range is more value heavy and the bottom of his value range is likely around AJ (and I think it’s likely he checks with AJ and QQ a second time) occasionally getting those hands to fold isn’t enough. That combined with Jarrett sometimes having the goods means he probably has to get folds from hands like KT just to break even.
If your equity when called is 20% or 25% … it’s a whole different ball game. Now you only have to get folds about 40% of the time.
I am almost embarrassed to say that I have no idea what spacemonkey is talking about. For as much poker as I play, should I be concerned? Maybe this is the reason I get so many poker invites………
Senzrock
Full House
Not to get into the weeds, but this point here is basically what we are debating. If you think Andy's squeeze pre + flop check + turn bet = value "a lot more than bluffs," I think I (and hero in game) felt differently. When Andy doesn't Cbet flop there, but leads turn, I think he has less value than you might assume. I'm not being results oriented here, I just think his value bets flop almost all of the time out of position.
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
Send me a PM ill be glad to help and you can come play in my weekly cash game anytime. It’s just north of you. Small town vibe, big players. Usually Friday nights mixed and Sundays hold em at noon with NFL, Ribs, and Chicken.
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
The mis click flop gave it away. Still need to work on tuning the sizing.
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