Why are folks still referring to Empress Casino (Joliet, IL) Chips as "Leaded THC" ? (1 Viewer)

Flat12

Flat12

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As a happy owner of a set of Empress, I have been searching the forum for pictures of sets owned by the members here (since all the nice Empress p0rn at Chiptalk are now gone for good).

Came across a bunch of Classifieds where some of the members selling their Empress kept referring to them as "Leaded THCs"

Correct me if I am wrong (as I'm not a dedicated chipper like the rest of you), but don't all THCs have a tiny proportion of lead in them measured in ppm (parts per million) ? So why call Empress Chips "leaded" when it's already a given ?

I am not bothered with the hogwash about the 'great big casino chips lead scare'...........just in case one of you decides to jump in with a health admonishment :) I am merely curious why anyone would specifically refer to these 'older' THCs as 'leaded' in their classifieds.
 
Flat12 said:
I am merely curious why anyone would specifically refer to these 'older' THCs as 'leaded' in their classifieds.
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Older leaded chips, as I understand were made with lead powder or flakes added to the clay. They are heavier, and to some people (including me) feel more substantial, and thus can be more desirable.

I've weighed different Paulson chips and some newer Paulson chips are very light and may weight somewhere between 7 to 10 grams a chip, but some older, leaded, Paulsons weigh up to 11 and 12 grams a chip.

I have a set of worn Empress myself I don't recall them being really heavy, but I might go back and check.
 
Interesting. So which 3 periods corresponding to the different Paulson 'lead' formulation would those Empress fall under ?

(a) 1998 or earlier
(b) 1999 to 2006
(c) Post-2006

I am guessing they fall under (b) ??
 
From the Chipguide -- Empress Casino, Joliet IL -- it says Open: 06/16/1992, Close: 03/2009.

It's possible the casino ordered more chips or replacement chips sometime after they were open, but any original chips would obviously be pre-1998.

Just curious, where did the info of the "3 periods" of Paulson formulations come from?
 
They might have ordered their last order in 2000 or 2005. Them being open from 1992 till 2009 means they had 1 set in or before 92 and then how often do casinos order new chips? 5 years 10 years?

I would be surprised to hear that the mint chips are not leaded..


this was my set BTW:

Mix, then full used, then mint with NYNY ones relabeled:

20130927_220602.jpg


20140225_210431.jpg



1227162217.jpg
 
Flat12 said:
Correct me if I am wrong (as I'm not a dedicated chipper like the rest of you), but don't all THCs have a tiny proportion of lead in them measured in ppm (parts per million) ? So why call Empress Chips "leaded" when it's already a given ?
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Consider yourself corrected. :)

Modern era THC chips do not contain lead. Older style THC chips made by Paulson used material formulas that were laden with lead, often as high as 47% lead by weight.

Lead was inexpensive and was used for a number of reasons, providing several desireable chip characteristics -- color vibrancy, material softness, ability to wear evenly and not chip, substantive weight/heft, and unique sound.

Many small casinos and card rooms never reorder chips. Some of the TCR chip sales were of chips that had been in play for 13-15 years before the facility closed (or was sold and rebranded). Some places with secondary backup sets even put secondary chips into play alongside the primary chips, avoiding the need to order additional chips (Aztar, Empress, etc.).
 
All I know for sure is, as much as I was at that casino in the early to mid 90s, it’s probable each and every person with a set probably has a $5 chip I have touched. ;):whistle: :whistling:;)
 
Flat12 said:
(a) 1998 or earlier
(b) 1999 to 2006
(c) Post-2006
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AWenger said:
where did the info of the "3 periods" of Paulson formulations come from?
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It actually breaks down to (dates approximate):
x) 1970-1976-ish: THC chips produced for Paulson by Burt Co. with lead-free materials,
a) 1977-1998: original Paulson-manufactured THC contained leaded formulas used for all colors,
b) 1999-2006: period when Paulson (and later GPI) started systematically replacing lead in various colors **
c) 2006-current: conversion completed to the non-leaded formulas used today

** Many colors were converted fairly quickly, with a few colors lingering on for several years until suitable replacement materials were found. Existing materials stock was also used during this period until depleted. RHC mold was introduced around 1998, and shaped/textured inlays also disappeared around that time.
 
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Im still convinced that GPI are still producing textured Inlays. Some of the Bally's $5s were almost new.

In fact when I asked the cage guy about new chips, he mentioned about deliveries of them. He could mean delivered from their stockroom though, but it's worth exploring.
 
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BGinGA said:
Old new stock held in reserve at the casino, my guess.
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Definitely possible, but if they ordered enough extras at about the time textured inlays disappeared, for there to still be some in 2019, that order must have been huge.

Cant remember if I asked you this in pm or not, but we're textured inlays inquired about during the boat buy process?
 
Perthmike said:
were textured inlays inquired about during the boat buy process?
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If an item wasn't on the provided sales info, it was assumed to be unavailable. The in-house artist initially rendered up RHC chips for customer approval (even though the submitted artwork showed THC molds), which was countered with an innocent-sounding "Can you make them look like this?" query. Didn't want to rock the boat further regarding textured or shaped inlays, figuring most (likely all) customers were dumb as anchors regarding such chip nuances. Sales rep was primarily a BJ guy, and had no clue what they offered re: clay chips. Almost every question prompted an "I'll have to ask the factory" response, and it seemed risky to have too many questions being brought up to people in NA.
 
BGinGA said:
If an item wasn't on the provided sales info, it was assumed to be unavailable. The in-house artist initially rendered up RHC chips for customer approval (even though the submitted artwork showed THC molds), which was countered with an innocent-sounding "Can you make them look like this?" query. Didn't want to rock the boat further regarding textured or shaped inlays, figuring most (likely all) customers were dumb as anchors regarding such chip nuances. Sales rep was primarily a BJ guy, and had no clue what they offered re: clay chips. Almost every question prompted an "I'll have to ask the factory" response, and it seemed risky to have too many questions being brought up to people in NA.
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Yeah that all makes total sense and is what I expected. I just wonder if they genuinely don't do textured inlays anymore, or whether they just started doing gloss as standard because it was easier and none of the casinos have questioned it or noticed because they don't care.
 
Perthmike said:
Yeah that all makes total sense and is what I expected. I just wonder if they genuinely don't do textured inlays anymore, or whether they just started doing gloss as standard because it was easier and none of the casinos have questioned it or noticed because they don't care.
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Smooth/glossy inlays are required for many of the security features developed in recent years.
 
We may be getting leaded chips back though? I heard the current administration has legislation in the works to lift the ban on "clean" lead. Might be coming back to paints and gasoline too...
 
Thanks for all your replies, fellas. You guys are a wealth of information. Leaded or not, I'm hanging on to all my Empress. Love those chips. Also, they were my first experience with a Jim Shaffer Chiproom sale. Not something you forget in a hurry. I'm glad I'm no stranger to sniper bidding on eBay auctions. Jim's probably several levels more hectic LOL
 
chipjoker said:
They might have ordered their last order in 2000 or 2005. Them being open from 1992 till 2009 means they had 1 set in or before 92 and then how often do casinos order new chips? 5 years 10 years?

I would be surprised to hear that the mint chips are not leaded..


this was my set BTW:

Mix, then full used, then mint with NYNY ones relabeled:

View attachment 331309

View attachment 331310


View attachment 331312
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Lovely. Where did you acquire those Empress buttons and cards ? Are they casino originals ? I remember Jim offered two different button designs as a follow-up to his Chiproom sale, but that clear acrylic button in your photo.....very nice.
 

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