Where Have all the Chips Gone? (5 Viewers)

[MrCatPants]

I don't know how trading works, but sounds good on paper. We're talking 4-5 figure sets that don't really have a market price and even in doing that you may be saying good bye to chips forever. It might just be I don't dabble in grail sets and that's where trading full sets might make the most sense, e.g. unobtanium for unobtanium.

I don't have much, but well over half of my current chips I bought from chippers that planned on selling them and I said no please don't you'll never see them again I'll just give you market price so the chips can "stay in the family".

As I look at going down to a single small cash set, maybe two, I don't even actually know how/what/when/where to sell. No one's going to want their chips back at the prices I paid (for most not all), helping the hobby with good classified listings will just get flipped/wrecked, frors aren't real (I wouldn't even want fror anyways), auctions are wack after the last update. Even with stuff to list, it'll prob sit in the basement for a minute just because.

I've thought about how to make trading (or renting) work but the total value/risk and reliability of shipping/USPS plus how even upstanding members can fall off the face of the earth just doesn't make it work. Unless everyone put like 5k in escrow and there was a governance process in place for tracking/lost sets etc. More pain and risk than it would be worth in benefits I think.

 

[upNdown]

I've thought about how to make trading (or renting) work but the total value/risk and reliability of shipping/USPS plus how even upstanding members can fall off the face of the earth just doesn't make it work. Unless everyone put like 5k in escrow and there was a governance process in place for tracking/lost sets etc. More pain and risk than it would be worth in benefits I think.

It’s kind of like poker - you know your own risk tolerance. As I’ve said, when I sold my most expensive set, I did it locally so I could do a hand to hand transaction. I bet I could have gotten an additional 25% or more at auction, but screw that. For me personally, once I get into 4 digits, my risk tolerance in minuscule. Same reason why I don’t play $2/5.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I've thought about how to make trading (or renting) work but the total value/risk and reliability of shipping/USPS plus how even upstanding members can fall off the face of the earth just doesn't make it work. Unless everyone put like 5k in escrow and there was a governance process in place for tracking/lost sets etc. More pain and risk than it would be worth in benefits I think.

All you need is a couple of folks to kick it off. Tracking in a singular place with specific read/write vs read only access.

But agreed not worth it just across the board or prob these days. If already had momentum from a few years back I think it'd be okay.

I tested it out. I gave out some free sets privately, nothing big $. CCs, some Bud Jones, non denominated starburst set, a BJ roulette set. Always said people could return one or exchange it. The first person to send their set back to me was going to get a 600 chip adolfo set. Go figure, it never happened.

edit - before this I tried frors for supes dupes cheap, but that failed. after this I tried doing the send off chipsets but publicly and just track in thread, but that didn't take off. At the end of the day, I don't think anyone really cares, or they do but noone wants to actually take steps towards solutions, e.g. feedback system and such (beating dead horse).

 

[BELGRADE]

Unfortunately, the spirit of PCF from 10-15 years ago is gone... people are just there to make money... selling Paulson products at 10 times the factory price while trying to make us believe they're doing it for the community, lol.
The people in the PCF disgust me more and more.

 

[frugal]

Sure, appreciate the clarification. What would you call the strong aversion to losing money on poker chips that you bought and sold? I used fear in that context.

What would you say is driving you preferring to die with the chips rather than lose money? I see that trepidation as the fear of 'I bought at the wrong time or at the wrong price'.

Outside of professional traders, this is how most people behave in most markets. IMO it's pretty standard loss aversion.

I'm seeing this right now in my local real estate market. People don't want to lose money on their house that's gone down in value so they list it well above the market clearing price. As the market slides downwards they adjust the price downwards, but not enough to actually sell the place. The price they have the place listed for now would've easily sold three years ago, but their desire to be on the right side of a good deal means that they're still listing at a price that won't sell today. If you look at how well the stock market has done in that timeframe they'll likely never make back the money they've lost by having their money tied up in a house, but they're blind to opportunity cost and are only looking at making a nominal gain or reducing their nominal loss.

Same thing is happening here, just with smaller numbers, higher vol, and different expected return over time.

 

[suchj0sh]

“What, are you planning to die with X instead of selling it to me at the price I want??!!”

A staple of every hobby market.

 

[doublebooyah85]

Outside of professional traders, this is how most people behave in most markets. IMO it's pretty standard loss aversion.

I'm seeing this right now in my local real estate market. People don't want to lose money on their house that's gone down in value so they list it well above the market clearing price. As the market slides downwards they adjust the price downwards, but not enough to actually sell the place. The price they have the place listed for now would've easily sold three years ago, but their desire to be on the right side of a good deal means that they're still listing at a price that won't sell today. If you look at how well the stock market has done in that timeframe they'll likely never make back the money they've lost by having their money tied up in a house, but they're blind to opportunity cost and are only looking at making a nominal gain or reducing their nominal loss.

Same thing is happening here, just with smaller numbers, higher vol, and different expected return over time.

I don’t think poker chips are comparable to homes valued at $600k with interest rates/loans. This is a hobby w a limited supply of quality clay.

If someone’s poker chip set was worth $2k and now it’s worth $1200 they are not holding bc it’s an investment. They are holding it because there’s nothing else out there they want. Or they don’t need the money. Or because they like it. It’s super simple imho lol

 

[GamingWithChips]

“What, are you planning to die with X instead of selling it to me at the price I want??!!”

A staple of every hobby market.

Obviously it's hard to weed out the baddies (ie re-sellers looking purely for profit), but outside of that I personally love the feeling of having an item I used and loved, kept it in good condition, and then eventually passing it on to someone else at a price that I know is a good deal. Makes both parties happy.

 

[suchj0sh]

Obviously it's hard to weed out the baddies (ie re-sellers looking purely for profit), but outside of that I personally love the feeling of having an item I used and loved, kept it in good condition, and then eventually passing it on to someone else at a price that I know is a good deal. Makes both parties happy.

Same, I’ve said the same many times here over the years. I don’t feel entitled to the same treatment as a buyer, though.

 

[GamingWithChips]

Same, I’ve said the same many times here over the years. I don’t feel entitled to the same treatment as a buyer, though.

Ya there are always going to be entitled buyers and sellers. Hopefully that's where the community part comes in, hopefully some trust can be built with eachother over a shared interest and then both can leave happy.

 

[Booshme]

Prices are higher than what I remember just a year ago. Granted I’m a new member, and working on limited data. That said, to afford the set I absolutely love and want (IOC KC baby, fracs up to $5s) I think it’ll be a mixture of some good luck and lots and lots of patience, $400-500 a rack just isn’t worth it. I’d rather wait a long while and invest less per chip for a set that is uniquely mine once CPC is back up and running

 

[doublebooyah85]

I’ve got a bunch of good chips for sale if you need chips

 

[BarrieJ3]

I’ve got a bunch of good chips for sale if you need chips

pcfauctions.com

 

[doublebooyah85]

pcfauctions.com

Pcfauctionsdontdowellanymore.com I think they went great during Covid bc people could spend more time on their phone and PC

 

[frugal]

I don’t think poker chips are comparable to homes valued at $600k with interest rates/loans. This is a hobby w a limited supply of quality clay.

If someone’s poker chip set was worth $2k and now it’s worth $1200 they are not holding bc it’s an investment. They are holding it because there’s nothing else out there they want. Or they don’t need the money. Or because they like it. It’s super simple imho lol

That all sounds reasonable except that people are explaining why they're not selling and, for many people, it doesn't match what you're saying at all and falls squarely into loss aversion territory.

 

[doublebooyah85]

That all sounds reasonable except that people are explaining why they're not selling and, for many people, it doesn't match what you're saying at all and falls squarely into loss aversion territory.

A few people on 3 pages of a forum isn’t the majority.

 

[frugal]

A few people on 3 pages of a forum isn’t the majority.

I'm not solely referring the comments here and never indicated that I was. I'm not sure why you'd assume that.

 

[GamingWithChips]

I’ve got all of the chips

It's been a long week and 3 pages worth of looking, but we finally found our answer

 

[doublebooyah85]

I'm not solely referring the comments here and never indicated that I was. I'm not sure why you'd assume that.

That all sounds reasonable except that people are explaining why they're not selling and, for many people, it doesn't match what you're saying at all and falls squarely into loss aversion territory.

Huh?

 

[BarrieJ3]

Pcfauctionsdontdowellanymore.com I think they went great during Covid bc people could spend more time on their phone and PC

I think you may be right.

But I was doing some real dumb battles pre covid and post covid. Seems like there was a gigantic cliff they all fell off when they updated it.

Not saying it wasn't a good update, just that it removed the entire soul from auctions. The right thing might still go off, but I'm blown away at just how much it died where stuff sells for a fraction compared to if people just listed in classifieds

(too bad folks couldn't add 5 minutes to a time stamp, maff hard)

 

[doublebooyah85]

I think you may be right.

But I was doing some real dumb battles pre covid and post covid. Seems like there was a gigantic cliff they all fell off when they updated it.

Not saying it wasn't a good update, just that it removed the entire soul from auctions. The right thing might still go off, but I'm blown away at just how much it died where stuff sells for a fraction compared to if people just listed in classifieds

(too bad folks couldn't add 5 minutes to a time stamp, maff hard)

Yeah bad timing to rollout a change

 

[Sparkynutz]

That’s an amazing collection. Why did he leave? If I had a hobby that I was as passionate about, I’d stick around the hobby’s forum/community.

Curious as well. If he bought that many chips from members someone has to know him, what happened to him or if he plays poker with any of his chips.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Yeah bad timing to rollout a change

Weird, also just remembered how many of my samples came in charity auctions.

Used to be common, I haven’t seen a real one in a long time iirc. Wierd how things shift.

 

[ovo]

I'm a Hor , it's that simple

 

[BarrieJ3]

I only have the two walls for displays, keeping it to just 1 room. So going from 85ish displays with to 38.

Maybe PCF just needs a kickstart of of 100 $1 sample charity auctions

 

[Jeevansluck]

Sure, appreciate the clarification. What would you call the strong aversion to losing money on poker chips that you bought and sold? I used fear in that context.

What would you say is driving you preferring to die with the chips rather than lose money? I see that trepidation as the fear of 'I bought at the wrong time or at the wrong price'.

Thanks for clearing this up for me doc.

 

[Tonysquander]

Ahhh…the new market saturation thread. Just what we needed to rinse and repeat.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

View attachment 1667644

Thanks for clearing this up for me doc.

#NoFear!

 

[smashed_potato]

 

[grandmeme]

I don’t think poker chips are comparable to homes valued at $600k with interest rates/loans. This is a hobby w a limited supply of quality clay.

If someone’s poker chip set was worth $2k and now it’s worth $1200 they are not holding bc it’s an investment. They are holding it because there’s nothing else out there they want. Or they don’t need the money. Or because they like it. It’s super simple imho lol

Very well said.... If you are dropping 3k on some random clay discs, it tells me you can afford it... It's a hobby at the end of the day LOL. Although sometimes I do wonder about people's finances and reckless spending when I see some sale posts up.