When is a group buy ... (2 Viewers)

[sat guru]

I agree we're post committed, but some of the points you raise are exactly why we should be having this discussion.

If that's where you got the base price per plaque, you should know that the link shows $13, whereas your spreadsheets show $12.65. At 881 chips total, you've missed $308.35 in costs. Is there another source?

You're absolutely right. My apologies, it should be $13.00 and I've changed back. There is no different source of information which applies to these particular sales, but I changed it this morning based on something I received (LINK) and forgot to change it back to $13.00.

If that's where you got the p5woody figure, then your spreadsheet is mistaken, showing $150 instead of $300 for him. This implies your $20 Plaque tab is short $150 in costs, and the $100 Plaque tab is short by $150.

The total for both plaques is $300: $150 per design. I have allocated $150 to each design. Happy to allocate it as you want.

You projected a $1,819.00, or 13.33%, profit on $15,473.00 in sales. Although you labelled it a "Minimum Profit," it was apparently overstated by at least $608.35, so it's only 7.8% profit - and that's before accounting for materials (minor) and labor (in my mind, major) or settling discrepancies, damage, loss (hopefully, those will be minor for him, unlike my f*ck ups.) And there may still be other fees we're not aware of. He wasn't posting any invoices, that I saw.

Given my $13 per plaque error and the $300 allocation, the model comes in at approx. $1,500, so I edited my prior post to reflect that number. Happy to make other modifications to the spreadsheet as requested.

More importantly, you raise the really excellent point that GB organizers need to be wary of many pitfalls that can affect them adversely such as "materials ... and labor ... or settling discrepancies, damage, loss." If an organizer has detrimental financial consequences in a GB, that's NOT a good thing. Let's make a list of the things that they may not be aware off, so that organizers can factor them into the economics and have the benefit of others have made.

What about this: should we build a blank spreadsheet with line items for all of the ideas we're discussing and make it available for people to copy and download? The idea would be to create a model which incorporates line items for all of the things we think that should be there? Easy for subsequent organizers, makes transparency easier, etc. Is it worth it? Thoughts?

It's one thing to donate your time to a first Group Buy which enables you to get something you otherwise couldn't. It's another to run another two group buys for things you may not personally need... why should that time be donated, necessarily?

You say GBs for all three transactions, but the mods have already decided that none of them are. But you raise another super question which isn't on my list: should a GB organizer be compensated for his effort (if they want to be) if at all, and if so, how? (Really interested in the opinions of people who have run GBs in the past.) Personally, I LIKE the idea that a person is compensated for their efforts. I want the GB organizer to have a great experience and want to encourage them to repeat the madness. I also believe that expenses should be padded to ensure that the GB organizer isn't out of pocket. If I was running a GB, I would absolutely include each of these as line items.

To be clear - I'm not actually defending him.

I don't think you are, and I do appreciate and greatly respect you for holding me accountable. Moreover, I'm not alleging anything improper. Once he declared "for profit" I stopped posting questions and comments in those threads: good luck to him. And in fact I have subsequently ordered even more plaques. I hope he makes a lot of money: seriously. I'm in sales and I really like profit. His actions have also spurred this discussion, so we should thank him for that too.

But I know that it's all too easy to make a few wrong assumptions in a spreadsheet, and come out making some erroneously inflated claims... I can also make some only-slightly-silly assumptions and make it look like he has a loss. The margin here is fairly thin.

Absolutely agree with this so keep me honest. (If anyone has an appetite for it, I'm happy to run a spreadsheet with multiple options if someone wants to see it.)

Meanwhile, he has done a ton of work and will do a ton more. And people are happily lining up to pay $18 per for the plaques. I was offered plaques at $18 per, I was one of the first to sign on to make for a group big enough to hit the minimum, I paid $18 per, and I got them. Without him running this buy for the group, I would not have a set of very, very lovely plaques.

Again: completely agree with all of this. However, based on the GB moniker this was not my expectation. I anticipated costs to be treated pro rata, and with fixed costs divided amoungst a larger number of units the per unit price should drop. If you look at the subsequent two offerings, there were others (including you) operating under a similar assumption (LINK, LINK, LINK, and LINK). My expectation was (I believe) clearly evident in my group PM to all of the first GB participants on Aug 15. In that PM I explicitly questioned the economics, and enquired about expanding the GB, but my questions weren't answered. Lesson learned by me: it was at that time I should have pushed harder, but there was no point in doing so because the plaques had been ordered. I didn't anticipate a second GB with significantly greater orders which would spread the fixed costs over a much larger number of units. Hence my continued questions in the subsequent two threads: I was only interested in was understanding the economics.

I'd rather this thread had stayed on the subject you opened it with, but I guess it was inevitable that people would end up asking why the question... Now I'm feeling guilty about taking it further down the road.

Sorry: I don't share your guilt. This discussion is not about the sales that are going on. The discussion you and I (and everyone else on this thread) are having is exactly the road to be traveled, so that we can generate a repository of suggestions and ideas for organizers and participants in GBs. To my mind this has always been the value of PCF: I want to be part of a community that shares passion, knowledge, experience and ideas.

So although we're both post committed the reality is that we're aligned, not adverse. Apparently post commitment differs significantly from pot commitment: No one loses.

 

[sat guru]

Am I wrong to think that every group buy can have its own set of rules, and that maybe the only requirement for a group buy is for the organizer to be clear about a few of the standard questions around cost and future orders? If we collectively define a "group buy" then does that mean we won't be able to organize chip buying as a group on this site unless we adhere to all of the standards in the definition, or we just can't call it an official "group buy"

I absolutely agree with this: it's about transparency and managing expectations on both sides of the arrangement. If everyone understands the parameters around the GB then that should be enough.

Personally (as others have said above) I don't think that we need "rules" because, in my experience, they can stifle innovation. However, the spirited discussion here will hopefully help identify topics to be clarified, elaborated upon, or dispensed with, and encourage an organizer or participant to ask a clarifying question which prevents subsequent confusion.

 

[atomiktoaster]

I think for a lot of reasons it's a bad idea for a gb organizer to try to cover their time commitment monetarily. Making sure they aren't out of pocket from things like shipping mistakes is great. Even at $5/hr, payment for labor changes so many aspects of group buy expectations. Organizers don't pay taxes, use paypal f&f, and have a lot of slack on responsiveness. If you move to covering labor, I think all that changes.

Meet-ups are a good comparison. They take way more hours and effort, but I don't think we want to move to raked games to try to compensate the hosts. They only work because of non-monetary motivations.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Meet-ups are a good comparison. They take way more hours and effort, but I don't think we want to move to raked games to try to compensate the hosts. They only work because of non-monetary motivations.

AT makes a good point. We all do a lot of things that involve out time, and do it for the community. Tommy runs this site, BGinGA is a structure guru. Many others chime in with advice on hand strategy, rules questions, chip design, and more - all for free.

Yes managing a GB is more work. Art for a GB is work. But at a certain point you have to accept that a per/hour fee is not why we are here. The last thing we want to do is turn PCF into a capitalist venture - that was one of the key downfalls to CT. The recent Matsui plaque incident spurred a tiny bit of trouble, and it was eventually remedied because... Matsui's .

Now if a we simply state that a GB organizer can make X per participant, and X is marginal, then I am good. It's like tipping a valet or a waiter. Whether the "tip" is mandatory (insert Mr Pink video if you must ), or everyone gives out of the goodness of their heart should be discussed. I for one was crushed when the Matsui GB became a sales effort. I stuck in it, but I am getting far, far fewer plaques than I would like, because there simply is no price break. If someone else turned around and fired up a similar (actual) GB, I'd drop my for-profit order in a New York minute.

 

[BGinGA]

Yep. Only thing better than getting some yummy Matsui plaques for $18 would have been getting them for less because of a group buy effort, which in turn generates even ~more~ orders and even more cost savings. Sending all of those cost savings to a single person just doesn't sit well with me, in the context of a group buy and what that is supposed to represent.

It didn't stop me from ordering plaques, but it certainly stopped me from ordering a whole lot more of 'em. I'm not here to make a profit off of fellow chip enthusiasts, but understand that not everybody follows that same chip karma path.

 

[sat guru]

^^^Absolutely this^^^

 

[BGinGA]

A few other random thoughts on group buys....

My view is that a true group buy is an organized collective effort to purchase a desired item in bulk, with the intent to allow many to share in the ownership of said product (which otherwise might not happen for various reasons), and usually at a reduced cost as well (but not always, sometimes it's done merely to make minimum order size requirements). Pitfalls and bonuses along the way are typically shared equally among group buy participants, including but not restricted to price breaks on product and shipping costs, unexpected hidden taxes and fees, losses from lost or damaged shipments, and the like. The participants share both the benefits and the risks involved. The organizer donates time and energy, but it not held personally accountable for disasters beyond his control.

A for-profit venture is much different. With the possibility of profit must come assumed risk. A for-profit seller should be purchasing product with their own funds, not borrowing interest-free money from customers which is then used to create profits for the borrower at the expense of those same customers. If something goes wrong, the vendor is accountable -- whether it be bad or damaged product, or issues with shipping or the manufacturer. The difference in accountability is due to the seller-buyer relationship vs the members-with-common-goal relationship.

 

[sat guru]

Succinctly saying in one short post the points I have tried to capture in many. Sigh.

Not sure we need formal group buy rules. But a group buy 'definition' in the glossary is probably a good idea. I'll weigh in with my opinion later, so as to not sway any others or lead the discussion.

Perhaps you should have weighed in sooner?

 

[atomiktoaster]

Pitfalls and bonuses along the way are typically shared equally among group buy participants, including but not restricted to price breaks on product and shipping costs, unexpected hidden taxes and fees, losses from lost or damaged shipments, and the like. The participants share both the benefits and the risks involved. The organizer donates time and energy, but it not held personally accountable for disasters beyond his control.

Depending on the group buy scale, it gets really hard to share small unexpected costs. If we make it to drafting formal rules (or even just helpful guidelines), I'd advocate towards building an insurance fund into the group buy structure (and chip sample sets). If everything goes smoothly, the organizer can keep it as a thank you. Otherwise, a replacement package can be sent if something is lost in the mail without having to collect 50c via paypal from 30 different people. Maybe that formula can vary, depending on the group buy in question, but it shouldn't be up for discussion in each GB instance.

I've generally rounded up the per item cost to the nearest dollar, rounded up the postage cost to the nearest dollar, and in some cases ordered extra items for myself that I could part with in a pinch. That's probably not a universal formula, but it works for me. I think 95% of the people are fine with that, and I'm all for transparency of accounting, but I don't want to add extra effort justifying it to the 5% every time a new GB comes around.

 

[Tommy]

I just wanted to chime in here. I've seen 'capitalism' mentioned a couple times. I don't know if that was directed at me or not. In any case, most know that I don't profit from PCF. Whatever the site makes from the vendors, sponsors, and ads, goes toward maintaining and upgrading the software and hardware that runs PCF. When there are funds left over, it goes back to the members in the form of site giveaways and sponsoring member meetups (when possible). Sometimes I'll front the money for doing these things and will wait to get it back over a few months.

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So when is a group buy a group buy?
I been in a few group buys and ran some here and on some automotive forums.
In my experience:

• sharing the all costs equally among the participants to get the product to your door.
• re-shipping costs are done on an individual order basis.

It might not be that simple if you are doing a 2nd group buy and certain one time costs were paid for by the 1st group buy. Or can it be?
What a headache trying to collect extra $$$ from GB 2 participants and refunding to GB 1 participants. What happens if there is a 3rd group buy?

My suggestion would be to put a disclaimer in the 1st group buy. Something like this maybe?

"Certain cost are being paid for by the participants in this group buy that may not be applicable in any future group buys. There is no guarantee that another group buy will happen"

Re-shipping is the most time consuming part of a group buy. Using flat rate boxes is a big help but not always the cheapest way. I try to do small orders using first class mail when I can. To cover the re-ship costs like packing material, tape, labels, bubble mailers, etc, I found it easier to charge the USPS advertised shipping rates.

Example: A small flat rate box is $5.95 at the post office, but the online price is $5.25. +70 cents towards the costs.
I don't think anyone will be up in arms over that method. I think its pretty fair and keeps it simple for everyone.

What about my time? Everyone values their time differently so I am only speaking for myself. Being part of and running a group buy to help the participants get the best price for something we all want is payment enough.

 

[atomiktoaster]

I just wanted to chime in here. I've seen 'capitalism' mentioned a couple times. I don't know if that was directed at me or not. In any case, most know that I don't profit from PCF. Whatever the site makes from the vendors, sponsors, and ads, goes toward maintaining and upgrading the software and hardware that runs PCF. When there are funds left over, it goes back to the members in the form of site giveaways and sponsoring member meetups (when possible). Sometimes I'll front the money for doing these things and will wait to get it back over a few months.

Support PCF Plug
If you run an ad blocker, please consider disabling it while viewing the site or add PCF to your white list. (we don't have any annoying popups ads) It only benefits the community.

So when is a group buy a group buy?
I been in a few group buys and ran some here and on some automotive forums.
In my experience:

• sharing the all costs equally among the participants to get the product to your door.
• re-shipping costs are done on an individual order basis.

It might not be that simple if you are doing a 2nd group buy and certain one time costs were paid for by the 1st group buy. Or can it be?
What a headache trying to collect extra $$$ from GB 2 participants and refunding to GB 1 participants. What happens if there is a 3rd group buy?

My suggestion would be to put a disclaimer in the 1st group buy. Something like this maybe?


Re-shipping is the most time consuming part of a group buy. Using flat rate boxes is a big help but not always the cheapest way. I try to do small orders using first class mail when I can. To cover the re-ship costs like packing material, tape, labels, bubble mailers, etc, I found it easier to charge the USPS advertised shipping rates.

Example: A small flat rate box is $5.95 at the post office, but the online price is $5.25. +70 cents towards the costs.
I don't think anyone will be up in arms over that method. I think its pretty fair and keeps it simple for everyone.

What about my time? Everyone values their time differently so I am only speaking for myself. Being part of and running a group buy to help the participants get the best price for something we all want is payment enough.

How about the 2nd group buy just pays the same as the first, and the excess money goes to someplace made clear before the first group buy collects money? That way, there's no incentive to free load and score a discount on the backs of the original members. I think a charity donation, the original artist, the original GB members (if there's few enough to split), Tommy's PCF members slush fund and the original GB organizer's pocket could all be fine options, as long as the original members are fine with wherever the future proceeds of the asset are going. Buy or don't is probably enough of a "vote" if the GB organizer makes a controversial choice.

EDIT: If the subsequent funds do go to the GB organizer, there should be some conflict of interest rules: 1. The Organizer must bear as large a share of the asset cost (art fee) as the largest participating member. 2. The Organizer must leave the final design posted for 2 weeks before closing orders.

That avoids the Organizer from planning on getting most of his order from a second GB where he doesn't have to pay the art fee, and prevents him from trying to force a 2nd GB to maximize profit (an accusation tossed around recently, but that I'm not clear enough on the details to know whether actually happened).

 

[stocky]

Nothing really to add except any GB should state that PCF takes no responsibility for any GB. And that all participants enter at their own risks.

 

[Tommy]

How about the 2nd group buy just pays the same as the first, and the excess money goes to someplace made clear before the first group buy collects money? That way, there's no incentive to free load and score a discount on the backs of the original members. I think a charity donation, the original artist, the original GB members (if there's few enough to split), Tommy's PCF members slush fund and the original GB organizer's pocket could all be fine options, as long as the original members are fine with wherever the future proceeds of the asset are going. Buy or don't is probably enough of a "vote" if the GB organizer makes a controversial choice.

That's a good suggestion too.

Nothing really to add except any GB should state that PCF takes no responsibility for any GB. And that all participants enter at their own risks.

We sort of have that in the Disclaimer section of our TOS.

 

[Mental Nomad]

So although we're both post committed the reality is that we're aligned, not adverse. Apparently post commitment differs significantly from pot commitment: No one loses.

Split pot!

Seriously, though, I'm very glad my post wasn't taken the wrong way. One last niggle on the spreadsheet, and a couple of comments on others' comments:

The total for both plaques is $300: $150 per design. I have allocated $150 to each design. Happy to allocate it as you want.

The source post you quoted reads:
"$300 art fee from Matsui, and $300 art fee from p5woody, spread across all the plaques."

We know the Matsui fee is per plaque design; that's also how you treated it in the spreadsheet. The quote implies $300 per design for p5woody's fee, the same as the Matsui fee, so I think the spreadsheet should have a $300 fee for each design. If that wasn't the case, then I think the source quote is misleading.

What about this: should we build a blank spreadsheet with line items for all of the ideas we're discussing and make it available for people to copy and download? The idea would be to create a model which incorporates line items for all of the things we think that should be there? Easy for subsequent organizers, makes transparency easier, etc. Is it worth it? Thoughts?

I think this is way worth it. And let's make sure Dennis lays eyes on it, too. I think it will avoid many SNAFUs in the future.

Meet-ups are a good comparison. They take way more hours and effort, but I don't think we want to move to raked games to try to compensate the hosts.

Great point. I don't think the analogy is perfect - hosting an event feels very different to me from a group buy - but then again, lots of people "host" a private raked game. Great point.

On analogies, it occurred to me that I feel that Kickstarters are pretty much group buys, as well, but they are clearly not Group Buys as many chippers seem to feel. That is, many Kickstarters are more like what might be called on these forums, and "advance sale" by a vendor. But, in actuality, many Kickstarters are run by people who are not and will never be true vendors. Yet, others are. Sal's OWPS seating plaques come to mind - while they were posted here in the forums as a "Group Buy" in name and title, they were posted in a vendor forum. But nobody shrugged at them being called a Group Buy. And when he didn't have the volume necessary to hit the number, he went to Kickstarter to generate more sales - successfully - and the order went in. Thoughts?

The participants share both the benefits and the risks involved.... A for-profit venture is much different. With the possibility of profit must come assumed risk.

The question of who bears the risk is an excellent point, one which I don't think I'd adequately considered previously.

A couple of different people mentioned being OK with certain small price inflations - rounding up the cost of a chip, or of postage, or a small amount for the organizer. It occurs to me that, as a percentage, the round-up to an even dollar for a cheap item, like a sample chip, may be well over ten percent... while I ten percent increase in a pricier item like, say, a Matsui plaque, may be a more substantial difference... and for orders of 20 and more plaques, that same dollar amount becomes substantial. Because of the scales I'm dealing with, ten percent is ten percent... but in the forums Group Buy world, the percentage may matter less than the gross amount per person. Just some thoughts in case we try to develop suggested guidelines.

 

[atomiktoaster]

Split pot!

Seriously, though, I'm very glad my post wasn't taken the wrong way. One last niggle on the spreadsheet, and a couple of comments on others' comments:




The source post you quoted reads:
"$300 art fee from Matsui, and $300 art fee from p5woody, spread across all the plaques."

We know the Matsui fee is per plaque design; that's also how you treated it in the spreadsheet. The quote implies $300 per design for p5woody's fee, the same as the Matsui fee, so I think the spreadsheet should have a $300 fee for each design. If that wasn't the case, then I think the source quote is misleading.



I think this is way worth it. And let's make sure Dennis lays eyes on it, too. I think it will avoid many SNAFUs in the future.



Great point. I don't think the analogy is perfect - hosting an event feels very different to me from a group buy - but then again, lots of people "host" a private raked game. Great point.

On analogies, it occurred to me that I feel that Kickstarters are pretty much group buys, as well, but they are clearly not Group Buys as many chippers seem to feel. That is, many Kickstarters are more like what might be called on these forums, and "advance sale" by a vendor. But, in actuality, many Kickstarters are run by people who are not and will never be true vendors. Yet, others are. Sal's OWPS seating plaques come to mind - while they were posted here in the forums as a "Group Buy" in name and title, they were posted in a vendor forum. But nobody shrugged at them being called a Group Buy. And when he didn't have the volume necessary to hit the number, he went to Kickstarter to generate more sales - successfully - and the order went in. Thoughts?



The question of who bears the risk is an excellent point, one which I don't think I'd adequately considered previously.

A couple of different people mentioned being OK with certain small price inflations - rounding up the cost of a chip, or of postage, or a small amount for the organizer. It occurs to me that, as a percentage, the round-up to an even dollar for a cheap item, like a sample chip, may be well over ten percent... while I ten percent increase in a pricier item like, say, a Matsui plaque, may be a more substantial difference... and for orders of 20 and more plaques, that same dollar amount becomes substantial. Because of the scales I'm dealing with, ten percent is ten percent... but in the forums Group Buy world, the percentage may matter less than the gross amount per person. Just some thoughts in case we try to develop suggested guidelines.

As far as rounding up vs a percentage, in the total risk, some is proportional to the number of shipments (e.g. lost/damaged packages, packing material cost) and some is based on the dollar amount (e.g. import fees).

 

[Mental Nomad]

As far as rounding up vs a percentage, in the total risk, some is proportional to the number of shipments (e.g. lost/damaged packages, packing material cost) and some is based on the dollar amount (e.g. import fees).

The risk of a shipment being lost is proportional to the number of shipments, but the risk in terms of the cost of that loss is proportional to the cost of the product shipped.

 

[MD Mike]

I don't know as much as you guys do about previous group buys, the risks and tribulations, or even the legal aspect but in the spirit of supreme oversimplification, let me ask this question/propose this:

To me, it sounds like the easiest and safest way for a group buy organizer to manage an endeavor that is so complicated is to treat it almost as a business would. In fact, in my terrible lack of understanding how business works, I would even suggest that whoever is making the group by actually BE a legal business entity so that in the event of a loss, you could actually write it off on your taxes for several years.

It would all come down to integrity of the point man though. That person would take orders like any other business (or call it crowd funding) with the intention of eventually shipping the final product to someone.

Actually, to further confuse my point (which I loooove to do!) why not just do an actual "Kickstarter" for a group buy with fixed rewards for investment levels. The fixed rewards can be pre-determined sets.

Ok that is all. Like I said, I know the least here!

 

[Poker Zombie]

Sometimes, the group buy is just getting enough folks together to meet order minimums. It's like a kickstarter, but we're not building something new.

At it's heart, a GB is the chip community getting together to do what a single wallet cannot do alone. It is very much not a business. It is a social project motivated by the desire to help the community, not by the desire for greed.

 

[MD Mike]

It would be nice if there was a company that just organized group buys

 

[links_slayer]

As someone that has organized a decent sized GB (10,000+ chips) I'll chime in and say that I never did it because I wanted to be compensated for my time. I did it because I wanted everyone to get in on a good set of chips at a good price (and because the guy that did most of the up-front negotiation of price no longer had time to do it himself). There are certainly folks out there that are in this hobby to make money. There are also folks out there that value their time more than I value mine and would have no problem saying "hey, it's going to take me X hours to do this, my time is worth $Y/hour, I'm going to add $Z to everyone's total." IMO that's against the spirit of a group buy. Many may (and probably do) disagree with me on this and that's fine - it certainly won't be the first time!

Full disclosure: Many folks in that GB added on $ to their payments to me as a "thank you" which I gladly accepted as unnecessary as it was. I have also rounded up my totals for group buys that I have participated in - even for sample sets, calendars, and other "small ticket" items.

 

[Anthony Martino]

or a donation to the Red Cross

**initiating threadjack sequence, threadjack initiated**

I implore you to learn more about the Red Cross and what a waste of your donations they are. They are one of the worst "charities" out there, they just have ridiculously good marketing. Don't believe the hype. You donate blood, they turn around and sell it for profit.

Here is just one of the many stories about this awful organization:

http://gawker.com/dont-donate-to-the-red-cross-1652192522


**threadjack sequence complete, returning you to your regularly scheduled discussion**

 

[MD Mike]

Alright, let's cut to the chase.

Who's organizing the next tasty chip group buy?

Anyone? Anyone? 250,000 Hello Kitty poker chips maybe? How about a National Geographic sexiest volcanos of the World set?

Cute kittens? Anything?

 

[Anthony Martino]

250,000 Hello Kitty poker chips maybe?

My wife would be all over this

 

[Mr Tree]

Alright, let's cut to the chase.

Who's organizing the next tasty chip group buy?

Anyone? Anyone? 250,000 Hello Kitty poker chips maybe? How about a National Geographic sexiest volcanos of the World set?

Cute kittens? Anything?

Sounds to me like you are volunteering...

 

[MD Mike]

Well, need a set design first, and then a manufacturer I imagine unless you want me to make them all with my easy bake oven.

 

[Mr Tree]

Well, need a set design first, and then a manufacturer I imagine unless you want me to make them all with my easy bake oven.

If you have an easy bake oven that spits out chips you will be very popular soon

 

[MD Mike]

Well what do we have here...

 

[MD Mike]

Also if you are wondering why there is an easy bake oven in my office at work, it was given to me as a joke gift one Christmas. I haven't the heart to get rid of it.

Plus it made a really good sugar cookie once.

 

[Poker Zombie]

If I had an EZ bake that spit out chips, I would take it everywhere. Work, home, the beach, roller-coasters, the Borgata (they don't know what chips are theirs anyway)...

 

[Ronoh]

Adding some type of freebies to GB organizers would be a plus in my book... a) it's a nice gesture and b) incentive to get more GBs off the ground.

I don't know about smaller GBs but if another massive one like CPS happens I would have no issue with, and would actively support, the organizer(s) getting a 1000 chip set for free for their trouble. What would we be talking? A buck per person? I can't see how anyone would have an issue with that.

Smaller quantities and/or more expensive chips give them a % discount spread across the rest of us.

Someone designs a new DB, they get one free. Add a quarter to my invoice... wait, add 50 cents cause I'll take two.

When its pocket change per person for something tangible and appreciated I can't see a downside.