Cash Game When does micro stakes become regular cash stakes? (1 Viewer)

[Poker Zombie]

BG makes a good point. Stakes do not equal blinds. Your stake is what you can lose. If your group buys into a $1/$2 game with just $20, and there's typically 1 or 2 rebuys over the entire night, then you're playing micro-stakes.

You also don't know how to say "raise", but that would be a different topic.

Conversely, if you are playing .05/.10 and everyone buys in for $200, with 1/2 the players reloading 2-3 times over the night, you are not playing microstakes - or taking any actions other than "pot".

But as a general rule nickle-dime games will see the biggest loses in the microstakes range, while $1/$2 games have the ability to cost a day or 2 of pay.

.25/.50 can go either way depending on the group, and the variance of the game.

 

[Mac128k]

Great discussion. I could get on board with some of these suggestions like @BGinGA posted if we use nano stakes as a thing.
I’d never thought about nano stakes until this thread.

 

[upNdown]

I guess these designations are subjective. As such, I think the designation "nano-stakes" is silly. If the stakes are low enough that they're insignificant, I'll call that microstakes. And that designation will also cover stakes that are super-insignificant and stakes that are superduper-insignificant.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

I think the idea of using buy in vs blinds is much more relevant in NL. one could argue if you are playing limit then you could base stakes off of blinds, because then you are actually basing everything off the blind levels. For example, @Chicken Rob 's .05/.10 NL game always comes to mind

 

[Mental Nomad]

I guess these designations are subjective. As such, I think the designation "nano-stakes" is silly.

I haven't heard anyone really call them that... Other than techies making a joke, or people trying to find a name in discussions like these.

In real life, IMHO, they're usually just called nickel games or nickel-and-dime.

Most of my players called our game a "quarter game" until I told them I learned online we're a "micro" game, because we're smaller than a "low stakes" game. Most agreed, saying they don't come with a "stake" at all, just a bunch of twenties!

 

[Chicken Rob]

I think the idea of using buy in vs blinds is much more relevant in NL. one could argue if you are playing limit then you could base stakes off of blinds, because then you are actually basing everything off the blind levels. For example, @Chicken Rob 's .05/.10 NL game always comes to mind

My game is mostly pot limit, but I agree with your sentiment.

We played a .05/.10 game one night where the big winner went +900.

Is this micro stakes?

 

[MatB]

So the question is.....

Do the blinds determine the "stakes" ? or does the amount your willing to lose?

I personally would say its the blinds that determine the "stakes"

If you lose or win $900 in a .05/.10 game, then i'd say we need a new category... nano/baller ?

 

[Mojo1312]

The fact of the matter is poker, like professional sports, is a game of skill. There are a lot of people who play sports on a recreational level, but few make it to the college level, and fewer still develop the skills to play at the professional level. One of the key skills to the game of poker is the ability to manage a big (125BB's) or deep (200+ BB's) stack profitably.

There also has to be a meaningful element of risk associated with the stakes. A $20 buy-in with .05/.10 blinds qualifies as a deep stack game, but rarely are you going to find a group of players who place significant value in $20 to meet that criteria for risk.

Most players want to attend a game where there is a comfortable balance between risk and cost, which is usually 40 to 100BB's. ($20 to $50 in a .25/.50 game) Such a game plays differently when the buy-in is $60 to $100, which I argue is the bottom end of low stake poker.

The only thing left to the individual is the confidence and willingness to sit in games where the structure exposes him or her to a greater amount of risk that comes with deep stack play.

 

[Chicken Rob]

If we want to have a bunch of different answers, and have to ask somebody how much they make or how much disposable income they have before deciding on an answer...sure.

There should be an overall conclusion regardless of personal income...


High Stakes: 5/10 and above
Medium Stakes: 2/5
Small Stakes: 1/2
Micro Stakes: 25/25, 25/50, 50/1
Nano Stakes: 10c/25c, 5c/10c

That's my opinion anyway

I mainly believe this because for the most part Nano Stakes are something we think we want to play, usually due to online pennies, but when it comes time to buy in, $25 is getting close the lowest possible buyin amount while still "playing poker" as they say..

5/10 is still mid stakes to me.

Putting 5/10 in the same category of 100/200 seems crazy.

 

[Chicken Rob]

As I type this I'm playing in a 2/4 NL game that plays smaller than a typical New England .25/.50 home game.

Which is the micro stakes game.

 

[GoStumpy]

5/10 is still mid stakes to me.

Putting 5/10 in the same category of 100/200 seems crazy.

I see what you're saying, and you're probably right... 5/10 would be the top of midstakes and anything higher would be high stakes.. then you're talking thousands and thousands of dollars per buyin, that's pretty dang high stakes if you ask me.

"High Stakes" would be any time you can buy a pretty nice car from your winning session. LOL

 

[Chicken Rob]

I see what you're saying, and you're probably right... 5/10 would be the top of midstakes and anything higher would be high stakes.. then you're talking thousands and thousands of dollars per buyin, that's pretty dang high stakes if you ask me.

"High Stakes" would be any time you can buy a pretty nice car from your winning session. LOL

To me there is no clear line, but if I was going to make a general rule about this:

Micro stakes invlove fracs.
Mid stakes start with dollars
High stakes start when the greens are no longer needed
Nosebleeds start when the blinds only need $1000 chips or higher

even 10/25 or 25/50 are probably mid stakes considering how high stakes get.

If we are calling .50/1 small and not micro, and we are calling 10/25 high and not mid, then small and mid only go from .5/1 to 5/10, despite the fact that people play games as huge as 25,000/50,000 NL. Seems to me middle stakes NL must range higher than 10/25.

To me stakes aren't high just because the average person can't afford to lose a buy-in. Stakes are high in relationship to other stakes available. A $2500 buy-in 10/25 game, or even a $5000 buy-in 10/25 game is still middle stakes to me when you consider the range of stakes being spread in card rooms.

100/200 is my opinion of the start of high stakes.

 

[churlbut18]

So in a $0.25/$0.50 game, if I buy in for 100BB ($50) I'm playing micro stakes? And if I buy in for 200BB ($100), I'm now playing small stakes, even though the game didn't change stakes, just the buy-in amount? Yes, I'm confused.

 

[softchewy]

The way I always look at stakes is your "stake" in the game (your buy-in / how much you can lose), not simply determined by the blinds.

So in a $0.25/$0.50 game, if I buy in for 100BB ($50) I'm playing micro stakes? And if I buy in for 200BB ($100), I'm now playing small stakes, even though the game didn't change stakes, just the buy-in amount? Yes, I'm confused.

your stakes have changed.
If we are talking about no limit - all in on the first hand you can lose/win $50 vs $100... those are different stakes.
The low/high terms are vague and like all things, relative.

 

[GoStumpy]

Stake \= buyin IMO...

 

[GoStumpy]

But, I completely think that micro stakes become low stakes when fractional are no longer used

 

[GoStumpy]

If you can theoretically play for 5 orbits (~40+ haandds) for just the change in your pocket that would be microstakes...

 

[BGinGA]

But what if you have really big pockets?

 

[GoStumpy]

Sounds like time to take a shot!

 

[bergs]

We tried playing 5/10c as a fun game but someone still walked out with $550. Degens gonna degen.

Micro for me is a $20-40 capped buyin. Anything $100-200 is a small but not micro game.

 

[Sal Bandini]

At what pace does it change from jogging to running?

 

[Mojo1312]

At what pace does it change from jogging to running?

Easy. If you are wheezing, then that qualifies as running in my book. And you are probably playing high stakes poker if you wince when you pull the money out for your first buy-in, E

Keith Richards taught me everything is relative.

In an old interview he was asked about his $3,000 a week drug habit, and whether or not he had a "problem." Keith didn't miss a beat. He said "If I was a heart surgeon earning $200,000 a year, that would be a problem. For me, no problem!"