Tourney Two Decks or One (2 Viewers)

[rjbf65]

Simple poll question for the masses. If you were playing a self dealt NLHE tournament, would you prefer each table to be using 2 decks or 1.

To clarify I mean that with 2 decks there is one in play and the other one getting actively shuffled for the next hand to save time between hands.

 

[manamongkids]

2 no question. get so many more hands in, espeically in a tourney where there is a clock working against you

 

[kk405]

Two decks. But self-dealing sux

 

[slisk250]

2 with a dedicated dealer or 2 dealers sitting mid table across from each other.

 

[Turntwo]

2 decks, much more efficient.

 

[Payback]

I'm leaving if only playing with one deck.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Question: why on earth would you consider not having two decks?

 

[manamongkids]

Tourney or cash we have a paid dealer and I shuffle the second deck for him so all he does is deal and help the game move along

 

[riotouslevity]

Tourney or cash we have a paid dealer and I shuffle the second deck for him so all he does is deal and help the game move along

What's the rate for a dealer?

 

[T_Chan]

As of my vote, it's a little one sided...

Spoiler

"19 to 0 in favor of 2 decks"

Always 2. In a self dealt game, shuffle behind or ahead.

If dedicated dealer, then the button shuffles for the dealer.

When I deal, I just shuffle the 2nd deck once the cards are dealt. There's usually enough time to shuffle the 2nd deck by the time the flop is ready to be dealt. 3 riffles, 1 overhand, 1 riffle, cut card on top. But not everyone is as dexterous as I am. I have nimble fingers.

 

[links_slayer]

2

Now for some fun ask folks if they shuffle ahead or behind...

 

[BGinGA]

Now for some fun ask folks if they shuffle ahead or behind...

We alternate per orbit, keeps everybody happy or pissed, depending upon their disposition. :


Per the OP's scenario (self-dealt tournament), I voted two decks (prefer BB shuffle ahead, but CO shuffle behind works too). We use dedicated dealers with only one deck per table for our tournament events. Cash tables with dedicated dealer, usually two decks in play.

I've found that card decks last a lot longer when only the dealer (correctly) shuffles the deck. Pass-the-deal decks and decks used by dedicated dealers that pass the shuffle around the table suffer more wear and damage, mostly due to incorrect and excessive shuffling.

 

[AK Chip]

We are opposite of Dave, Tournaments two decks bb shuffles . Cash game one deck dealer shuffles. Always dedicated dealer.

 

[200 Motels]

Question: why on earth would you consider not having two decks?

One reason would be you play with players who are unfamiliar with this concept and dislike change.

"Man, wouldn't it be nice to get more hands in per hour?"

"Yea sure would"

"I've seen other home games run with two decks"

"Two decks? That's silly"

 

[upNdown]

Question: why on earth would you consider not having two decks?

As noted above - home cash game, guys set in their ways, etc
For tournament play, I can't disagree; two decks is always preferred.
But for my regular cash game, the guys are more interested in having a fun, casual, social time than they are in jamming in the maximum number of hands per hour. And I'm fine with that. (Although every so often somebody will grab a second deck, when he's sick of the cards he's getting out of the first one. But that's not the same thing.)

 

[rjbf65]

Thanks for the responses. Reason I posted the poll was our local Knights of Columbus Tourneys still use one deck and it drives me crazy. Three of the four guys in charge of it don't play cards regularly and are resistant to change it to the two deck system. I'm going to show them the overwhelmingly one sided results of this poll and hopefully show them the light.

 

[Wils]

One reason would be you play with players who are unfamiliar with this concept and dislike change.

"Man, wouldn't it be nice to get more hands in per hour?"

"Yea sure would"

"I've seen other home games run with two decks"

"Two decks? That's silly"

I have that issue. My regulars are intelligent people, but suggest TWO decks and you'll might as well suggest the big blind gets four hole cards and the dealer acts first unless the cutoff has an ace.

Guess they're scared the decks will get mixed up, but I'd use decks with 1. Different backs and 2. One poker, one bridge size. I'd like to see them get those fuckers confused.

 

[TheBigTater]

Tournament: 2 decks always.

Cash Game: I'm kinda in the anti-speed poker camp so 1 deck is fine. I don't feel the need to try and play X-amount of hands per hour but I'm good when playing with 2 if that is what the table wants to do. But I consider poker to be a casual game most of the time. Besides not everyone is adept at shuffling ahead/behind & passing, etc... In a casual home game, with alcohol involved, it can sometime slow things down rather than speed thing up.

 

[rowlin]

It's too bad we are not all in agreement here.

 

[pltrgyst]

Big DUH to this one!

 

[Blaster]

..

Thanks for the responses. Reason I posted the poll was our local Knights of Columbus Tourneys still use one deck and it drives me crazy. Three of the four guys in charge of it don't play cards regularly and are resistant to change it to the two deck system. I'm going to show them the overwhelmingly one sided results of this poll and hopefully show them the light.

If they do go to 2 decks self deal, make sure it is shuffle behind for the following reasons:
A - For Game security & professionalism appearance, Player should not shuffle his own deal, regardless of who does a simple cut, you may find a player grumbling/wondering to himself if "Vinny" somehow dealt himself nut flushs, & then a full house during his last few deals...
B - I've found that, if a bunch of players , joking/drinking/eating during tournament, & doing shuffle ahead, you find the current dealer, after river, tends to "toss the stub" or otherwise" wash-his hands" of the responsibility of the cards when hand is over, & the "new" next shuffler very often has to be reminded it's his turn to pull in those cards & shuffle, sometimes causing a slight delay or "table mess" until taken care of. With shuffle behind, the current dealer is responsible for every aspect from dealing out, to pulling in his board and muck cards & then re-shuffling them, & it seems to go smoother and more professional.
Novice players however tend to gravitate to shuffle ahead if "asked" their opinion...

 

[Mental Nomad]

suggest TWO decks and you'll might as well suggest the big blind gets four hole cards and the dealer acts first unless the cutoff has an ace

I hear you, but that's changing the rules of the game. One deck or two changes nothing about the outcome, but makes the game go more easily and smoothly.

But for my regular cash game, the guys are more interested in having a fun, casual, social time than they are in jamming in the maximum number of hands per hour.

Again, I hear you, but I don't feel like it's a special need for speed... it just makes things easy and smooth.

Hearing the arguments against using two decks, I can make the same arguments against using chips... you don't need to use chips to play poker, you could all just put cash in the pot. But chips make the game play much easier and quicker... after your group gets used to learning to buy in and cash out.

Same for two decks... you don't need two decks to play poker, but they make the game play much easier and quicker... after your group gets used to learning to shuffle the other deck.

 

[Forest@Farmington]

In the minority but, our cash game is one deck as it is more social then playing. I have not tried two for the tournament might try it next time.

 

[BGinGA]

f they do go to 2 decks self deal, make sure it is shuffle behind for the following reasons:
A - For Game security & professionalism appearance, Player should not shuffle his own deal, regardless of who does a simple cut,

Having the BB shuffle ahead eliminates this issue completely. BB shuffles, sets deck to his right. The current SB becomes Dealer on the next hand, takes the shuffled deck to his left, cuts, and deals. Every bit as secure and professional as shuffle behind.

Both systems work equally well, and both have minor drawbacks.

 

[upNdown]

I hear you, but that's changing the rules of the game. One deck or two changes nothing about the outcome, but makes the game go more easily and smoothly.




Again, I hear you, but I don't feel like it's a special need for speed... it just makes things easy and smooth.

Hearing the arguments against using two decks, I can make the same arguments against using chips... you don't need to use chips to play poker, you could all just put cash in the pot. But chips make the game play much easier and quicker... after your group gets used to learning to buy in and cash out.

Same for two decks... you don't need two decks to play poker, but they make the game play much easier and quicker... after your group gets used to learning to shuffle the other deck.

I agree with you. Two decks is definitely better than one. No doubt. But comparing a second deck's impact on the game to chips is a big reach.

 

[Mental Nomad]

If they do go to 2 decks self deal, make sure it is shuffle behind for the following reasons:
A - For Game security & professionalism appearance, Player should not shuffle his own deal, regardless of who does a simple cut,

Having the BB shuffle ahead eliminates this issue completely. BB shuffles, sets deck to his right. The current SB becomes Dealer on the next hand, takes the shuffled deck to his left, cuts, and deals. Every bit as secure and professional as shuffle behind.

Both systems work equally well, and both have minor drawbacks.

I can agree that either will work, as long as you're consistent about requiring about a single over-hand cut. Card mechanics rely on controlling the top and/or bottom of the deck... a fair cut kills that, and a single over-hand cut forces a fair cut (two-handed cuts allow for a variety of false cuts.)

 

[Blaster]

Having the BB shuffle ahead eliminates this issue completely. BB shuffles, sets deck to his right. The current SB becomes Dealer on the next hand, takes the shuffled deck to his left, cuts, and deals. Every bit as secure and professional as shuffle behind.

Both systems work equally well, and both have minor drawbacks.

I can agree that either will work, as long as you're consistent about requiring about a single over-hand cut. Card mechanics rely on controlling the top and/or bottom of the deck... a fair cut kills that, and a single over-hand cut forces a fair cut (two-handed cuts allow for a variety of false cuts.)

@BGinGA 's ahead mentioned method also prevents the current dealer from shuffling his own deal, ( it's kind of " shuffle 2nd ahead ), however it still has the occasional problem of having a 'different person remember to pull in and shuffle .. so I would be fine with either, but would prefer shuffle behind for overall smoothness.

 

[Poker Zombie]

We ran 1 deck for years. Most of my players couldn't even shuffle when we started playing. When I introduced 2 decks, I put it to a secret ballot. The players decided unanimously in favor of two decks.

 

[justsomedude]

What's the rate for a dealer?

Depends, is it a tourney game? Cash game? Are you tipping?

That said, $15-$20/hr is pretty standard for a dealer for a tournament (at least here in Denver).

For a cash game, you need to be prepared to negotiate things like tips, etc. If you can guarantee fair tipping, you could potentially negotiate $5-$10/hr plus tips, or no hourly pay and tips only.

Learn from my mistakes... I had a dealer for a $1/$2 game I hosted last year. We paid him $10/hr with tips on top. At the end of the night he had almost $100 in his tip cup, on TOP of his hourly rate. For 5-6 hours, that worked out to about $25-$30/hour, which was excessive. Needless to say, this rubbed some of my guys the wrong way.

So, if I were to do a $1/$2 game again with a paid dealer, I'd argue for tips only, given that my crew tips well. If you're hiring a qualified dealer for a .25/.50 game, you may need to offer a small hourly wage plus tips.

 

[Mental Nomad]

Good info, @justsomedude.

Instead of wage plus tips, I'd consider offering a minimum guarantee... In your example, maybe something like "just tips, with a minimum of $15/hr."

If they do well on tips, you don't pay on top, but if it's a bad night for innocent reasons, they're covered. And if you have to keep going deep in the pocket because they don't earn.... They're probably not a great dealer and need replacing, anyway.