Trying to teach myself Razz (2 Viewers)

[Empty Light]

This is probably a simple rules question, but I'm new to "low" games:

Razz is a seven card game, where you play your worst five to make the low. A-2-3-4-5 is the best possible hand. But if all seven of my cards are A, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5... Am I obligated to play the set of 5s (A-2-5-5-5)? Or am I allowed to disregard the other two 5s, and just play the lowest cards (A-2-3-4-5)?

See? Simple question, but after 25+ years of playing nothing but Hold'em and Omaha, I am suddenly realizing that I don't know anything about playing low games!!

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

5 best cards play. In the case of Razz the "worst" so A2345 is your hand. Straights & Flushes don't count so you have the Nuts

 

[upNdown]

Negreanu has a great series of How To Play videos - 15 minute videos that explain the rules and basic strategies.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

This is probably a simple rules question, but I'm new to "low" games:

Razz is a seven card game, where you play your worst five to make the low. A-2-3-4-5 is the best possible hand. But if all seven of my cards are A, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5... Am I obligated to play the set of 5s (A-2-5-5-5)? Or am I allowed to disregard the other two 5s, and just play the lowest cards (A-2-3-4-5)?

See? Simple question, but after 25+ years of playing nothing but Hold'em and Omaha, I am suddenly realizing that I don't know anything about playing low games!!

Good questions, but in most games cards speak. That means, with the cards you have, you automatically play the best hand which is the lowest 5 cards. The ranking counts down from the highest card in your 5 card hand. If I have A-2-3-4-Q, it doesn't matter that I have such low bottom cards because my hand is Q high; I lose to 6-7-8-T-J. Their hand looks higher and has more pips but its that darn top card.

Not your specific question but helps me understand the lowest-5-cards ranking. Since we're in the Poker Strategy section, it really is a game of Aces and 2s. If you start without either in a ring game you're climbing uphill. If you start with the lowest cards you can catch more of the middling lows (5-8) that can help make your low. Plus, if you pair your A or 2 and one is face down it 1. means your opponent doesn't have that one, and 2. can make your hand look stronger even when weaker.

 

[Bacon Dad]

Good questions, but in most games cards speak. That means, with the cards you have, you automatically play the best hand which is the lowest 5 cards. The ranking counts down from the highest card in your 5 card hand. If I have A-2-3-4-Q, it doesn't matter that I have such low bottom cards because my hand is Q high; I lose to 6-7-8-T-J. Their hand looks higher and has more pips but its that darn top card.

Not your specific question but helps me understand the lowest-5-cards ranking. Since we're in the Poker Strategy section, it really is a game of Aces and 2s. If you start without either in a ring game you're climbing uphill. If you start with the lowest cards you can catch more of the middling lows (5-8) that can help make your low. Plus, if you pair your A or 2 and one is face down it 1. means your opponent doesn't have that one, and 2. can make your hand look stronger even when weaker.

In your above example, what if the opponent’s hand was 6-7-8-J-J? Would that be lower (better) than the Q-high hand? My understanding is that you don’t want pairs.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

In your above example, what if the opponent’s hand was 6-7-8-J-J? Would that be lower (better) than the Q-high hand? My understanding is that you don’t want pairs.

Sure, if it was J-J you would win with Qhigh since its not a pair. Otherwise, A-A-A-A-2 would be the nuts instead of near the worst possible hand (but you've got some sweet blockers). 9-T-J-Q-K beats A-2-3-4-4

Edit because I didn't like how I said that:

Yes, pairs count against you.

So if your full board is A - 2 - 9 - J - 4 - 6 - K, you have a 96 low: A-2-4-6-9. Decently strong 3 or 4 handed but depending on other boards showing you may be dead.

If you instead had A - 2 - 9 - J - 9 - 6 - K, you have a J9 low: A-2-6-9-J. Possibly playable when heads up but getting ugly.

Even worse: A - 2 - 2 - 8 - 8 - J - A, you have crap (pair of 2s): A-2-2-8-J. You would beat any higher pair, but would lose to most holdings.


Its old and a lot of the NLHE section is outdated, but Doyle's Super System has great sections on Razz/Stud/Draw that hold up very well. I'm sure I'm crushed against the mixed game specialists but against normal apes, its good to read.

 

[Bacon Dad]

Thanks! This made sense to me.
I'll check that out.

 

[Empty Light]

Excellent replies - thank you to all!

I should have thought to check out videos from Kid Poker: I was using him as an example of a well rounded player as this very question was coming up in the games last night!

Thanks again, folks!

 

[suchj0sh]

A wonderful game.

I learned watching Jason Somerville play 8-game on his stream many years ago; I wonder if those are available on twitch. Those streams were a pretty valuable resource for learning a lot of the standard mixed games.

 

[BKisback]

If you play razz, expect pain. There's a reason razz regs look cranky.

 

[acezag]

If you play razz, expect pain. There's a reason razz regs look cranky.

Pretty boring, too - pretty much nut peddling with seven cards, unless you have players who don't know what they're doing.
I think that's why a lot of folks prefer split pot games like Badacey.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

If you play razz, expect pain. There's a reason razz regs look cranky.

Because they're 75+!

 

[DrStrange]

A lot more action playing razz fixed limit. In a big bet game, it is all about making the nut or near nut hand. Not meaning nuts = A,2,3,4,5. Nuts means given the up cards known a player can't be beaten.

In limit you have to fight over the medium strength hands. Still is a significant edge to showing the potential of nutting. But you can't play limit razz as a nut peddler.

Razz is simple. A fine game to teach beginner poker. Except they would prefer to play no limit and hold'em. -=- DrStrange

 

[Poker Zombie]

If you like Hold'em, you won't have any issue with the action, or lack thereof. It's just stud with a different way of ranking the cards, and stud was the standard for eons in card rooms.