Tourney Tournament Advice (1 Viewer)

[Sparty]

Feel free to offer advice. How to improve? I haven't run a tourney in a while.

Guys poker night.
I'm the Ringleader.
12 players

Typically I used to do a T1000 Player starting stack 15/5/15/5 (5s/10s/25s/100s) = 40 chips (AFTER READING POSTS, THIS WILL BE T2000, 10/10/7/2) using (5/25/100/500)
We were pretty liberal with Rebuys. As I remember we might get around 5-6 rebuys from the group at times.

I'm NOT tied to a T2000 tournament if there is a better option.

I have:
T5 x 275
T10 x 100 (after reading Posts Below, I will not be using these)
T25 x 275
T100 x 200
T500 x 100
T1000 x 50

From www.homepokertourney.com (I took their advice 15 years ago and just ran with it)
Blinds were recommended to be 20-30 min levels for 3-6 hour games;
but my guys & I wanted 2-3 hour games, so i just shaved down to 15 minute (or less I think?).

10-20
15-30
20-40
25-50
50-100
75-150
100-200
150-300
200-400
300-600
400-800
500-1000
600-1200
800-1600
1000-2000

1. Anything that concerns you?
2. Anything that should/could be improved?
3. When should I take breaks and "color up"?
4. If only 8 to 10 end up showing...does that change anything?
5. ALSO, I have 16 player event that might be coming up, would that change anything? (Two tables of 8 to start? When do i combine tables?)
6. Did I miss anything?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 

[Beakertwang]

Yeah, the 10's are unnecessary, but there are worse sins.

For instance...

Starting stacks of only 50BB means stacks will be short related to blinds really quickly, meaning less skilled poker play and more all-ins. I prefer minimum of 100BB for a tourney, and 200 is even better, but it depends on what time frame you're going for.

Keep the T1000 stacks, and add a 5/10 at the beginning. You could do T1500 if you like.

 

[andy699669]

1. 100% Transition between S4 & S5, transition rate inconsistency, unnecessary T10 chips, 50BB to start.
2. Starting Stacks can be upped to at least 2,000 chips, use 10-10-7-2 distribution (less chips used)
3. 5s colour-up @ 50/100, 25s colour up at 200/400
4. How many players can fit in a table adequately?
5. See Q4.
6. Dunno

 

[Beakertwang]

Maybe try something like:

T1000 starting stacks: 10x5, 10x25, 7x100 (and one or two 500's if starting with T1500 or T2000)
5-10
10-20
15-30
20-40
30-60
50-100 (color up 5's)
75-150
100-200
150-300
200-400
250-500
300-600 (color up 25's
etc.

 

[Sparty]

Thanks!!

So I like the idea of NO $10's.
I like the idea of T2000 10-10-7-2 distribution then with (5-25-100-500)
I forgot that with 12 players we start with two tables of 6, then combine after the first 2 or 3 are knocked out.
a 2-1/2 to 3 hour tournament would be ideal.

so i guess that just leaves me with the question on the Blind Schedule?

 

[Sparty]

Maybe try something like:

T1000 starting stacks: 10x5, 10x25, 7x100 (and one or two 500's if starting with T1500 or T2000)
5-10
10-20
15-30
20-40
30-60
50-100 (color up 5's)
75-150
100-200
150-300
200-400
250-500
300-600 (color up 25's
etc.

THANKS!! what do you think the time between blinds should be for this to be a 2-1/2 to 3 hour tournament?
(the reason for the shorter tournament is that we typically play AFTER we play 36 holes of golf and all of us are getting older and exhausted by end of the night).

 

[Beakertwang]

So the conventional wisdom seems to be that the guaranteed tourney end will be when there are 20BB in play total.

12 buy-ins + 5 rebuys x 2000 + 34,000 chips. So the tourney will end (for sure) at about 800/1600, but it's reasonable to expect it a little sooner than that.

If you use my suggested blind structure with 20-min blinds, 300-600 will be 3hrs plus breaks.

You probably need to do one of the following:

1. Reduce starting stacks
2. Shorten blind levels to 15 min
3. Remove some of the blind levels

 

[Sparty]

So the conventional wisdom seems to be that the guaranteed tourney end will be when there are 20BB in play total.

12 buy-ins + 5 rebuys x 2000 + 34,000 chips. So the tourney will end (for sure) at about 800/1600, but it's reasonable to expect it a little sooner than that.

If you use my suggested blind structure with 20-min blinds, 300-600 will be 3hrs plus breaks.

You probably need to do one of the following:

1. Reduce starting stacks
2. Shorten blind levels to 15 min
3. Remove some of the blind levels

AGAIN, MUCH THANKS. I'm thinking going to 15 min blinds. But should I start with 20 minute blinds for the first few, THEN reduce to 15 (or less) as the tournament goes on. That way the button can go around when everyone is still in the game, but when half the players are out, perhaps I can speed up blinds? I don't have much experience with this, but it would appear to me as a possible solution.

 

[Beakertwang]

AGAIN, MUCH THANKS. I'm thinking going to 15 min blinds. But should I start with 20 minute blinds for the first few, THEN reduce to 15 (or less) as the tournament goes on. That way the button can go around when everyone is still in the game, but when half the players are out, perhaps I can speed up blinds? I don't have much experience with this, but it would appear to me as a possible solution.

I'm not sure about starting at 20 then switching to 15, but I don't initially hate it. Maybe some with more expertise will jump in here and offer their input.

@BGinGA?

 

[Sparty]

I'm not sure about starting at 20 then switching to 15, but I don't initially hate it. Maybe some with more expertise will jump in here and offer their input.

@BGinGA?

Oh man, bringing in the big gun! Hate to bother Dave, he answers WAY too many of these for everyone! LOL Thanks @Beakertwang , you've been a big help!! (I think!)

 

[Sparty]

1. 100% Transition between S4 & S5, transition rate inconsistency, unnecessary T10 chips, 50BB to start.
2. Starting Stacks can be upped to at least 2,000 chips, use 10-10-7-2 distribution (less chips used)
3. 5s colour-up @ 50/100, 25s colour up at 200/400
4. How many players can fit in a table adequately?
5. See Q4.
6. Dunno

thanks for the advice!

 

[Beakertwang]

You could also look through the myriad posts on tourney structures in this very forum.

 

[Sparty]

You could also look through the myriad posts on tourney structures in this very forum.

I've spent hours searching, reading and researching. It has been very helpful and a refresher. And I found some VERY good stuff to consider. But there are so many variables (# of players, starting chip counts, chip denomination limitations, desired length of tournament, etc, etc, ). All the posts I found had slight variations from what I was exactly trying to do. And every time i changed a variable, i wasn't sure what the expected outcome would potentially be. SO THANKS AGAIN!

 

[BGinGA]

12 players, T2000 starting stacks (10/10/7/2 = 100BB). Use 4 x T500 for re-buys. Use T100 and T500 chips for color-ups.

lvl sb bb
L1 10 20
L2 15 30
L3 25 50
L4 40 80
-- end of re-buy period --
L5 60 120
-- remove T5 chips (requires 6 x T100) --
L6 100 200
L7 150 300
L8 250 500
-- remove T25 chips (requires 6 x T500) --
L9 400 800
L10 600 1200 * EOT *
-- remove T100 chips (requires 9 x T1000) --
L11 1000 2000
L12 1500 3000
L13 2500 5000
L14 4000 8000

With 15-minute blind levels, typical tournament will finish no later than L10, or 2.5 hours play plus two color-up breaks, even with re-buys. It will seldom get to the blind level where T100 chips need to be removed, unless there are massive amounts of early re-buys and the remaining players are all tight nits (usually only one or the other, rarely both). After color-ups, there will generally be 145-155 chips in play at tournament end (more with re-buys), and roughly a 2:1 ratio of T100/T500.

All blind increases range from 50%-67%, averaging 59%. It's an semi-aggressive structure (necessary to finish in under 3 hours unless you want short 10-12 minute levels), but has room for a lot of play throughout, and is well-suited for 100BB starting stack semi-turbos with or without re-buys. If using re-buys, I'd cut them off after L4, since they are still worth a meaningful 25BB at that point.

You'll need this breakdown at a minimum (your set has this covered easily):

120 x T5
120 x T25
90 x T100 (inclludes 6x for T5 color-up)
54 x T500 (includes 6x for T25 color-up, and 24x for up to six re-buys)
9 x T1000 (optional for T100 color-ups)
-------------
393 chips

Side note:
Since you have plenty of extra T5 and T25 chips, and the optimum size range for lower-two denominations in starting stacks is 10-16, you can alternately go with T2000 starting stacks of 15/13/11/1 if desired, and would probably need to deal with less change-making. If doing so, I'd color-up the T5 and T25 chips with 10x T500s (instead of adding any T100s), leaving roughly 154-170 chips in play at tournament end.

Set requirements for the bigger starting stacks (also within your set's means):

180 x T5
156 x T25
132 x T100
46 x T500 (includes 2x for T5 color-up, 8x for T25 color-up, and 24x for up to six re-buys)
14 x T1000 (optional for T100 color-ups)
-------------
528 chips

It is also noteworthy that bumping the starting stacks to T3000 (10/10/7/4 or 15/13/11/3, 150BB) only adds about 15 extra minutes to the play time, would likely result in fewer re-buys, and almost guarantees that the T1000 chips will see play (coloring up the T100s). Up to you to determine your hard event time window, and how you want the event to play out.


* edited to accommodate re-buy requirements in OP

 

[BGinGA]

AGAIN, MUCH THANKS. I'm thinking going to 15 min blinds. But should I start with 20 minute blinds for the first few, THEN reduce to 15 (or less) as the tournament goes on. That way the button can go around when everyone is still in the game, but when half the players are out, perhaps I can speed up blinds? I don't have much experience with this, but it would appear to me as a possible solution.

Since you have 12 players and will be playing two shorthanded 6-player tables, 15 minute levels should be no problem getting an entire orbit in per blind level. And once the final table combines (assuming at 9 players, so two-table play is never shorter than 5-handed), it become less of an issue imo -- players have a lot more variables to be concerned with at that point.

 

[Sparty]

12 players, T2000 starting stacks (10/10/7/2 = 100BB). Use 4 x T500 for re-buys. Use T100 and T500 chips for color-ups.

lvl sb bb
L1 10 20
L2 15 30
L3 25 50
L4 40 80
-- end of re-buy period --
L5 60 120
-- remove T5 chips (requires 6 x T100) --
L6 100 200
L7 150 300
L8 250 500
-- remove T25 chips (requires 6 x T500) --
L9 400 800
L10 600 1200 * EOT *
-- remove T100 chips (requires 9 x T1000) --
L11 1000 2000
L12 1500 3000
L13 2500 5000
L14 4000 8000

With 15-minute blind levels, typical tournament will finish no later than L10, or 2.5 hours play plus two color-up breaks, even with re-buys. It will seldom get to the blind level where T100 chips need to be removed, unless there are massive amounts of early re-buys and the remaining players are all tight nits (usually only one or the other, rarely both). After color-ups, there will generally be 145-155 chips in play at tournament end (more with re-buys), and roughly a 2:1 ratio of T100/T500.

All blind increases range from 50%-67%, averaging 59%. It's an semi-aggressive structure (necessary to finish in under 3 hours unless you want short 10-12 minute levels), but has room for a lot of play throughout, and is well-suited for 100BB starting stack semi-turbos with or without re-buys. If using re-buys, I'd cut them off after L4, since they are still worth a meaningful 25BB at that point.

You'll need this breakdown at a minimum (your set has this covered easily):

120 x T5
120 x T25
90 x T100 (inclludes 6x for T5 color-up)
54 x T500 (includes 6x for T25 color-up, and 24x for up to six re-buys)
9 x T1000 (optional for T100 color-ups)
-------------
393 chips

Side note:
Since you have plenty of extra T5 and T25 chips, and the optimum size range for lower-two denominations in starting stacks is 10-16, you can alternately go with T2000 starting stacks of 15/13/11/1 if desired, and would probably need to deal with less change-making. If doing so, I'd color-up the T5 and T25 chips with 10x T500s (instead of adding any T100s), leaving roughly 154-170 chips in play at tournament end.

Set requirements for the bigger starting stacks (also within your set's means):

180 x T5
156 x T25
132 x T100
46 x T500 (includes 2x for T5 color-up, 8x for T25 color-up, and 24x for up to six re-buys)
14 x T1000 (optional for T100 color-ups)
-------------
528 chips

It is also noteworthy that bumping the starting stacks to T3000 (10/10/7/4 or 15/13/11/3, 150BB) only adds about 15 extra minutes to the play time, would likely result in fewer re-buys, and almost guarantees that the T1000 chips will see play (coloring up the T100s). Up to you to determine your hard event time window, and how you want the event to play out.


* edited to accommodate re-buy requirements in OP

Wow. this is extremely helpful info and recommendation. Thank you Dave!