Tourney This Tourney Setup Okay? (2 Viewers)

[Buddha]

Looking at buying some cheap chips for a smallish (1-2 table) cheaper home game tournament, and this is about what I have come up with. Looking for suggestions as to changes, or ways to make it better. Antes are pretty much out of the question with this bunch, but I also didn't want to be too aggressive with the blinds.

As for the chips, looking at a cheaper eBay seller that has a listing that allows 5 color selections, which are notated in my anticipated purchase. For 1-2 tables, I am sure I could get by with fewer chips, but I'd rather have too many than run out

 

[andy699669]

1. 2x 100% Jumps is plain awful
2. Too much T500 chips. What are the colours and denoms so I can comprehend this?
3. Poorly armed set would spell disaster to your game.

 

[justsomedude]

I agree with @andy699669 about the 100% jumps. Maybe consider adding a 25/75 level, a 150/200, and a 1500/3000 level? You can always reduce level times to accommodate them.

Regarding chips - can you go with bigger starting stacks?

For t10ks, I've always kind of loved:

12x t25
12x t100
5x t500
6x t1000

If you need to stretch your set out, this also works well:

8x t25
8x t100
4x t500
7x t1000

 

[Buddha]

2. Too much T500 chips. What are the colours and denoms so I can comprehend this?
3. Poorly armed set would spell disaster to your game.

I didn't want to put too many t25s in play to start as they seem to just get either wastefully used (someone bets 600 in t25 because they have it), or just accumulated. I am basically looking for 5 chip breakdowns, t25, t100, t500, t1000, t5000 that can be utilized well, for mostly 8-12 people tournaments (obviously 1000 chips is overkill for that, but why not allow for expansion, unknown number of rebuys/addons). The colors listed were just what were able to be chosen from, so i was just putting what i plan to make them beside it..

Would the following changes make more sense in terms of chips? I put the need based on 20 buyins, but I could see that putting too much emphasis on the t25, which is why a proposed set only has 200 vs the 240 need. I realized my errors on the t500, especially at starting, and basing on the other comment, have made the proposed change to the starting stack.

Not sure if it is the right way to think about it, but I looked at the t500 start need, which was 100, think the color up of the t25 and t100 value of 35000, and assume I would need ~180, but get more to cover the fact that rebuys will likely be larger chips instead of the whole starting stack again.

Sorry for sounding like a newb...Been a LONG time since I have thought about trying to create a tournament structure. I am going to work on the blinds a bit, and understand the too many 100x increase, but also don't want the tournament to take toooo long. Wasn't sure how to figure out rough time, though I got thoughts in my head now. Expect update in a few minutes.

 

[BGinGA]

Your structure will run about 3.5 hours plus breaks as designed, generally ending no later than L14 (5000/10000). You'll need a stiffer 59% average increase blind structure to keep two tables of 10k stacks anywhere close to 3 hours total if using 15 minute levels.

L1 50 100
L2 75 150
L3 125 250
L4 200 400
end re-buys, remove T25 chips
L5 300 600
L6 500 1000
L7 800 1600
L8 1200 2400
remove T100/T500 chips
L9 2000 4000
L10 3000 6000
L11 5000 10000 ***
L12 8000 16000
L13 12000 24000
L14 20000 40000

Event will typically end no later than L11, so about 2:45 plus breaks. All increases are 50%-67% (averaging 59%) with no 100% jumps.

A two-table set will require the following chips, using 8/8/4/7 10k starting stacks:

160 x T25 (green)
160 x T100 (black)
80 x T500 (purple)
145 x T1000 (yellow or orange)
25 x T5000 (grey or pink, sometimes yellow or orange)
----------------------
570 total chips

Use the extra T1000s to color-up the T25 chips, and use the T5000s to color-up the T100 and T500 chips. You will have enough extra T5000 chips for seven re-buy stacks (2 x T5000 each), which should be plenty (typical re-buy rate is 20%-33% for a well-structured event).

If wanting a bigger set to handle future expansion with bigger stack (12/12/5/6/x) or field sizes, consider this set breakdown:

240 x T25
240 x T100
120 x T500
200 x T1000
100 x T5000
------------------------
900 chips - anything more is overkill for two tables, and any extra money is best spent on upgrading to better chips, not getting more crappy ones. If restricted to purchasing in quantities of 25, then go with this 1000-chip breakdown:

250 x T25
250 x T100
150 x T500
225 x T1000
125 x T5000

I strongly urge you to buy chips with denominations, not blank chips -- it really does make the tournament experience much better, easier, and faster, and is totally worth any small extra expense. If you decide to ignore that advice, at least consider using 'standard' colors for the relative chip values -- a combination of no denoms and non-standard colors is a recipe for a very unenjoyable event.

 

[Buddha]

I strongly urge you to buy chips with denominations, not blank chips -- it really does make the tournament experience much better, easier, and faster, and is totally worth any small extra expense. If you decide to ignore that advice, at least consider using 'standard' colors for the relative chip values -- a combination of no denoms and non-standard colors is a recipe for a very unenjoyable event.

If I don't get denominated chips, I plan to at the very least use the inkstamp method to denominate them. I agree that it is easier and faster for play. As for 'standard' colors, at least half of the group that will play have no idea what standard is. One game, we play has blue t500, green t2500, black t5000, white t10000, orange t20000, red t50000. Another game starts with 52k, red, white, green, blue, and i can't even remember what their denoms are, so it has to be shown, either by stamp or denominated chip.

 

[Buddha]

Your structure will run about 3.5 hours plus breaks as designed, generally ending no later than L14 (5000/10000). You'll need a stiffer 59% average increase blind structure to keep two tables of 10k stacks anywhere close to 3 hours total if using 15 minute levels.

Is there a magic formula you are using, or basing on say total chips in play, assume that it will end when the bb gets to about a certain number?

 

[Buddha]

Maybe consider adding a 25/75 level, a 150/200, and a 1500/3000 level?

TBH, I thought there was a 1500/3000 level, as the 5 figure blinds were originally just copied off the lower levels.

 

[andy699669]

Is there a magic formula you are using, or basing on say total chips in play, assume that it will end when the bb gets to about a certain number?

Divide by 20.

 

[BGinGA]

It is very rare for a tournament to last longer than the level when there is a total of 20 big blinds on the table.

 

[andy699669]

It is very rare for a tournament to last longer than the level when there is a total of 20 big blinds on the table.

Hence the division by 20.

 

[BGinGA]

Lol, are you trolling me?

 

[andy699669]

No intention to do such thing, sir.

 

[Buddha]

Now that I understand the end point a bit better, I think I have what I like. I also probably understated the 2-3 hours. More like 3-4, and basing a couple numbers, like if there were 8 players, nothing additional, it would be just under 3 hours to the 2k blind level. If there is say 8 with a few rebuys/addons, say 150k in chips in play, then I'd be looking at like 3.5 hours, 300k in chips puts it just about 4 hours. If it gets to the point that we get 2 tables regularly, or the game takes to long, I can always adjust. I appreciate the quick help this morning.

 

[andy699669]

Tips: Consider adding 25/75 between 25/50 and 50/100 or start with 25/75 (I know, looks odd but if it works, then it's not odd), that way the transition is much smoother. I suggest "Purple Purge" to start after 2000/4000 stage. Otherwise, you're good to go!

 

[BGinGA]

And 800-1200-1600-2000 (or 2400) is more standard than a 800-1000-1400-2000 bb progression.

 

[Mojo1312]

Based upon your post, you only need T100's, T500's, T1000's and T5000's.

Structure for T15000

15 min levels

100/100
100/200
100/300
200/400
300/600
Break-Remove T100's (10 min)
500/1000
500/1500
1000/2000
1500/3000
2000/4000
3000/6000
5000/10000
7500/15000

The doubling of blinds between levels one and two, while aggressive, shouldn't be a drawback if players know the structure in advance.

You can end the re-buy period at the conclusion of level 4 or 5.
Approximate tournament length with 12 to 16 players and four to six re-buys - 3:10 to 3:25

Alternate structure:

100/100 20 min
100/200 20 min
100/300 20 min
Break - End of Re-buys (10 min)
VV 15 minute blinds VV
200/400
300/600
500/1000
700/1400
1000/2000
Break- Remove T100's (10 min)
1500/3000
2000/4000
3000/6000
5000/10000
7000/14000

The above structure allows for longer play in the beginning and gives players a better value on their re-buys.

Approximate run time: 3:35 to 3:50

 

[justsomedude]

Now that I understand the end point a bit better, I think I have what I like. I also probably understated the 2-3 hours. More like 3-4, and basing a couple numbers, like if there were 8 players, nothing additional, it would be just under 3 hours to the 2k blind level. If there is say 8 with a few rebuys/addons, say 150k in chips in play, then I'd be looking at like 3.5 hours, 300k in chips puts it just about 4 hours. If it gets to the point that we get 2 tables regularly, or the game takes to long, I can always adjust. I appreciate the quick help this morning.

View attachment 179184

Keep in mind, your end time can fluctuate by a few levels depending on your group's playing style.

The 20BB end-time is a general rule of thumb and good "worst case" scenario for a tournament that runs on the longer side. But that has A LOT to do with your players, playing style, and overall commitment to win, or "nitty-ness." What I'm getting at is, you have to have two very devoted/committed players to still be playing with 20BBs on the table - where the two heads up players both want to win just as much.

As I'm sure some folks have seen in some of my other tournament postings, my tournaments almost never get below 50BBs in play. This is because players are getting tired, want to go home, or want to quit so they can get over to the cash tables, and that means the top two or three players chop the pot, or start shoving just to end the tournament - which can easily cut a couple of levels off the end time. I was able to find photos of the timer screens from the last few tournaments I ran, and they seem to end consistently with 50-60BBs in play. The longest tournament of mine that I was able to find ran down to 42BBs in play.

Averaging this with the "worst case" 20BB demarcation point, I'd suggest using 35 or 40BBs as another possible end-time estimator. And you can certainly adjust that if you have a better grasp of your group's playing style.

I'm just trying to let you know that end time estimations can run a range of +/- 1 level from where you think they might end. It can be frustrating ending 45 minutes early with nothing else planned, or running 45 minutes late when you promised players they'd be home by now. There's no perfect way to calculate the end time, but you'll start getting a better feel for it the more your host your games. If you have players that consistently chop when you get down to three handed action, plan on ending a little earlier than expected.

 

[BGinGA]

Agreed, 20bb is a good estimate of calculating longest duration (plus breaks), but most events tend to finish between 40-60 bb. Re-buys and add-ons affect this also, since they add more chips to the table.