Tourney Structure setup help (1 Viewer)

[Pointaker101]

I’ve read through some threads but figured it might be best for me to get some input using my specific set. I’ve also researched some in regards to timing, but again, want some input. We play a small regular cash game (.25/.50 or .50/1.00, pending crowd), and have often played some sort of tourney (generally somewhere in the 50-100 BI range) prior to our cash game but it usually lasts too long to keep many players around for cash. So, to combat that I would like to get a quicker, more “action” filled game so that we may transition quicker to cash.


What I do know:

I am wanting to have a smaller BI tourney (20-25), with multiple rebuys through a certain level, an add-on, and for it to last approximately 3-3.5 hrs, including two 10-minute breaks. There is typically 8-10 players.


What I do not know:

Anything about running tourneys.


So, that being said, could you all shed some light as to blind structure and when to color up given my setup of:


$25’s - 200
$100’s - 200
$500’s - 80
$1000’s - 158
$5000’s - 50
Total - 688

 

[TexRex]

What about a freeze out tournament? Adding re-buys extends the time.

With your chips, you have a lot of options for 10 players as far as how many chips per player.

You could start at 25/50, 10K in starting chips, and 20 minute blinds, and expect to be done in 3 hours with this:

Small Blind Big Blind
1 25 50
2 50 100
3 100 200
4 150 300
5 250 500
6 400 800
7 600 1,200
8 1,000 2,000
9 2,000 4,000
10 4,000 8,000

It's not too bad of a tournament; it does have a somewhat wide variation in percentage of blind increases.

 

[Pointaker101]

What about a freeze out tournament? Adding re-buys extends the time.

With your chips, you have a lot of options for 10 players as far as how many chips per player.

You could start at 25/50, 10K in starting chips, and 20 minute blinds, and expect to be done in 3 hours with this:

Small Blind Big Blind
1 25 50
2 50 100
3 100 200
4 150 300
5 250 500
6 400 800
7 600 1,200
8 1,000 2,000
9 2,000 4,000
10 4,000 8,000

It's not too bad of a tournament; it does have a somewhat wide variation in percentage of blind increases.

Thanks for your input. Freeze out would be okay, but I was attempting to create some looser play so as to keep the game from becoming stagnant and lasting too long with guys trying sit on stacks.

Thoughts on starting stacks with your suggested blind schedule? Also, what level does your structure call for color ups?

 

[BGinGA]

I am wanting to have a smaller BI tourney (20-25), with multiple rebuys through a certain level, an add-on, and for it to last approximately 3-3.5 hrs, including two 10-minute breaks. There is typically 8-10 players.


What I do not know:

Anything about running tourneys.


So, that being said, could you all shed some light as to blind structure and when to color up given my setup of:


$25’s - 200
$100’s - 200
$500’s - 80
$1000’s - 158
$5000’s - 50

T10000 stacks (100bb)
20-minute blind levels (59% avg increase, all ranging from 50-67%)

lvl sb bb
L1 50 100
L2 75 150
L3 125 250
remove T25 chips, end re-buys
L4 200 400
L5 300 600
L6 500 1000
L7 800 1600
L8 1200 2400
remove T100 and T500 chips
L9 2000 4000
L10 3000 6000
L11 5000 10000

A ten-player tournament will typically end no later than L9/L10, or about 3:20 to 3:40 max including two 10-minute color-up breaks.

I recommend dumping the add-on, and restricting the re-buys to one per player.

Starting stacks:
12 x T25
12 x T100
5 x T500
6 x T1000
--------------
35 chips = T10K

Use 2x T5000 chips for re-buys, and let the player get change from the big stack.

15x T1000 chips are needed to color-up the T25 and T100 chips, and 5x T5000 chips are needed to color-up the T500 chips.

You can slice 30 minutes off the total time by using 15-minute blind levels, or cut 15 minutes off the total time by changing to 15-minute levels after the first break.

 

[Pointaker101]

T10000 stacks (100bb)
20-minute blind levels (59% avg increase, all ranging from 50-67%)

lvl sb bb
L1 50 100
L2 75 150
L3 125 250
remove T25 chips, end re-buys
L4 200 400
L5 300 600
L6 500 1000
L7 800 1600
L8 1200 2400
remove T100 and T500 chips
L9 2000 4000
L10 3000 6000
L11 5000 10000

A ten-player tournament will typically end no later than L9/L10, or about 3:20 to 3:40 max including two 10-minute color-up breaks.

I recommend dumping the add-on, and restricting the re-buys to one per player.

Starting stacks:
12 x T25
12 x T100
5 x T500
6 x T1000
--------------
35 chips = T10K

Use 2x T5000 chips for re-buys, and let the player get change from the big stack.

15x T1000 chips are needed to color-up the T25 and T100 chips, and 5x T5000 chips are needed to color-up the T500 chips.

You can slice 30 minutes off the total time by using 15-minute blind levels, or cut 15 minutes off the total time by changing to 15-minute levels after the first break.

Thank you!

 

[Trihonda]

BG has spoken.

/thread

 

[TexRex]

I like BG's starting stacks, though others would work as well. I didn't address stacks because there are many ways to get there with the number of chips you have.

Comparing BG's and mine, there isn't that much difference in the way they would play. His structure results in more consistent blinds increases since mine range from 50% to 100%. Mine will more reliably end at the 3 hour mark, and with 2 10 minutes breaks, fit within your 3:30 time frame, but his should end within that same time frame most of the time. I took the 3:30 as a hard stop; he allowed a little over that. Mine is also a deep stacked tournament with players starting with 200 BB instead of 100 BB. Mine would get rid of the T25 after Round 5 and the T100 and T500 after Round 7. His blinds are higher than mine until Round 9. I didn't put in my Round 11, but it would be 7000/14,000.

He is right about the blind times and what they could do. I personally prefer the 20 minute, but 15 minute would also work for either structure.

Here to me is the biggest difference between the 2, and this is very much a personal thing. I wouldn't play in his because of the lack of deep stacks. I would play in mine. 100BB is not that much. A big loss early in the tournament would be more devastating. The larger starting stacks and smaller blinds through most of the tournament I think make for better play. However, again players differ on this greatly.

I've surveyed players on this subject and have consistently found that some prefer deep stacks and bigger blind increases; about half as many like the smaller starting stacks and lower increases. Opinions are surprisingly strong on that, making me believe that in the middle where our tournament is probably keeps those on the ends playing whereas a significant swing either way would cost players.

In our tournament, we have very consistent 50-67% increases except for the first one that doubles. We do that because when I don't double, I get complaints that it starts too slow, even though it's more consistent. I mentioned recently that I just bump the starting blinds up a bit to accommodate that, even though I think it's a silly notion. So I really like consistent blinds increases. But it's not the only thing that affects how a tournament plays. Starting stacks count too. My surveys on that reveal players like large starting stacks a lot more.

All that said though, there is no right or wrong answer. There is a better answer for your group, but you have to know what they like.

 

[BGinGA]

Mine is also a deep stacked tournament with players starting with 200 BB instead of 100 BB.

100BB is not that much. A big loss early in the tournament would be more devastating.

I agree; my preference is for a deeper-stacked tournament -- although 100BB is plenty for a skilled player to work with, especially with re-buys. However, the OP was wanting a specific type of tournament (see below) with re-buys, lots of action, looser play -- and 100BB fits that bill perfectly. There would be very few re-buys with 200BB starting stacks and a tendency for some players to sit on their big stacks instead of play, which is exactly why I did not recommend it.

have often played some sort of tourney (generally somewhere in the 50-100 BI range) prior to our cash game but it usually lasts too long to keep many players around for cash. So, to combat that I would like to get a quicker, more “action” filled game so that we may transition quicker to cash.

I am wanting to have.... multiple rebuys through a certain level,

I was attempting to create some looser play so as to keep the game from becoming stagnant and lasting too long with guys trying sit on stacks.

 

[BGinGA]

Mine will more reliably end at the 3 hour mark, and with 2 10 minutes breaks, fit within your 3:30 time frame, but his should end within that same time frame most of the time. I took the 3:30 as a hard stop; he allowed a little over that.

I disagree with this premise. Both schedules have the same blinds at L9, and will end no later than L9/L10 in both cases...... making your schedule last exactly the same estimated times as mine. In fact, my schedule is more likely to end earlier at L8 than is yours, because the blinds are higher.

 

[MM11]

T10000 stacks (100bb)
20-minute blind levels (59% avg increase, all ranging from 50-67%)

lvl sb bb
L1 50 100
L2 75 150
L3 125 250
remove T25 chips, end re-buys
L4 200 400
L5 300 600
L6 500 1000
L7 800 1600
L8 1200 2400
remove T100 and T500 chips
L9 2000 4000
L10 3000 6000
L11 5000 10000

A ten-player tournament will typically end no later than L9/L10, or about 3:20 to 3:40 max including two 10-minute color-up breaks.

I recommend dumping the add-on, and restricting the re-buys to one per player.

Starting stacks:
12 x T25
12 x T100
5 x T500
6 x T1000
--------------
35 chips = T10K

Use 2x T5000 chips for re-buys, and let the player get change from the big stack.

15x T1000 chips are needed to color-up the T25 and T100 chips, and 5x T5000 chips are needed to color-up the T500 chips.

You can slice 30 minutes off the total time by using 15-minute blind levels, or cut 15 minutes off the total time by changing to 15-minute levels after the first break.

@BGinGA - this is very helpful. Aside from a larger starting stack, would you make any other changes for a deepstack tournament? thanks

 

[BGinGA]

Aside from a larger starting stack, would you make any other changes for a deepstack tournament?

I like a structure with slightly less aggressive blind increases (typically 41% average, ranging mostly from 33-50%) for deep stack events, but a lot depends on how long the tournament is desired to last. I prefer that a two-table event lasts at least 4:30-5:00 hours, and that's only possible with a 41% structure if using 15-minute blind levels.

 

[Pointaker101]

Thanks for all the input. Definitely some good structures here.

 

[MM11]

I like a structure with slightly less aggressive blind increases (typically 41% average, ranging mostly from 33-50%) for deep stack events, but a lot depends on how long the tournament is desired to last. I prefer that a two-table event lasts at least 4:30-5:00 hours, and that's only possible with a 41% structure if using 15-minute blind levels.

thanks man. appreciate the insight.

 

[TexRex]

BG, the reason I said mine will more reliably end at 3 hours is because of the lack of a re-buy option. In theory, if half the players re-buy, you've increased the total chip count by 50%, and thus extended the likely ending time. Indeed, your higher blinds without a re-buy would make it more likely to end before Round 8. I forgot to explain the why on that.