Request For ID Help Please (1 Viewer)

[Bikshu]

I came across this little blue guy and I am very curious as to who made it and where it might have originally been used back in the day. Unfortunately I am an absolute newbie when it comes to vintage poker chips, but I have tried pouring through a bunch of the threads within PCF in general - and this Collector's Corner sub-forum in particular - to see what I can figure out. I know the four pictures below almost look like they might be of completely different chips, but they actually are all the exact same chip and were just taken by different people using different cameras and at different angles.

Thus far I have been able to determine that this mold featuring 26 diamonds is called the "Radial Diamond" mold, of which Robert Eisenstadt's Antique Gambling Chips website says:
"Most famous period was with the Jack Todd Co., Kansas City MO, 1933-1950, when Todd was killed. Very popular mold in its heyday."

But there are threads here on PCF suggesting that this same Diamond mold was also used by numerous other manufacturers over the years, such as this quote by @gmunny from a post back in October 2017:
"I call it the Jack Todd mold, even though Christy & Jones bought the mold and used it in the 50s and early 60s. My records show that Jack Todd was killed on May 25, 1952. You are probably right though, those look older, so probably 30s-40s. Not sure if they were made by USPC or Burt. USPC made the first diamond mold chips for Jack Todd around 1933, then sold to Burt in 1947."

And there are even mentions by numerous people of Paulson themselves using this same Radial Diamond mold for a time. So unfortunately it seems like my chip theoretically could have been made by anyone ranging from USPC, Jack Todd, Burt, Christy & Jones, or Paulson, just depending on exactly when it was made. But I guess that still narrows it down a bit. Right? Right?!?! LOL!

I tried checking the Preserving Gaming History site but I didn't notice anything resembling my chip there. Then I moved over to Ed Hertel’s Illegal Chip Quick Guide but I couldn't seem to find it in there either. However, I will readily admit that I'm not very familiar with any of these antique poker chips websites, or their reference guides, or the best methods for searching through them... so it is extremely possible that they could have contained helpful info which I simply missed like an idiot.

The closest match that I have been able to find so far was this entry in the Museum of Gaming History site for a "6 Point Star" chip. From what I can gather these chips appear to be associated with an old illegal Jewish gambling hall or casino in Cleveland during the 1930s and 1940s. Very importantly, however, while the hot stamp of a 6 pointed star / Star of David matches to my guy perfectly, obviously their chip features what they refer to as a "Hub" mold while mine is the Radial Diamond mold. I guess it is theoretically possible that the same person, organization, gambling hall, casino, or whatever may have bought similar chips with differing molds over the years, in which case my chip might have been from this same "Star Club" in Cleveland... but I have no way to know that for sure.

Are you experts aware of any other historical poker chip resources that I can look into to try to determine who made this chip, when, and for what buyer? Or do you have any tips or suggestions on other things about the chip that I could potentially research in order to figure out its history? Any help would be very much appreciated!

These first two photos are of what I'll refer to as "Side 1":

Then these next two photos are of what I'll call "Side 2":

 

[allforcharity]

My guess only. The use of the Star of David would probably point to a private club akin to Shriners, Elks, or other fraternal society. Lots of members of those clubs played cards and used chips on their own private property, and go back a long time. Sometimes these chips end up on the secondary market when the chapters close down.

 

[BGinGA]

Hard to say who purchased the chips, but if the time period they were purchased is identified, then the manufacturer could be identified as being one of three companies: US Playing Cards (1933-1947), Burt Company (1947-1965), or Paulson (1965-1975-ish).

Jack Todd and C&J only stamped/sold chips made by USPC and Burt.

My only suggestion is you might follow-up with a search of the Burt Co. order cards archive for a match to an order sold to C&J.

My best semi-educated guess is that they were stamped by Jack Todd on chips made by USPC. Unlikely that C&J (or Paulson) would have made an identical hot-stamp die as the one used on the Cleveland club chips.

The hub mold and diamond mold chips were both produced by USPC and later by Burt Co. after they bought the molds.

 

[billnict]

There is a black chip and white chip, both diamond mold that looks just like your blue chip that are listed as UFC. See them at the link below.

http://chipguide.themogh.org/cg_chip2.php?id=UFDISO

 

[Bikshu]

Hard to say who purchased the chips, but if the time period they were purchased is identified, then the manufacturer could be identified as being one of three companies: US Playing Cards (1933-1947), Burt Company (1947-1965), or Paulson (1965-1975-ish).

Jack Todd and C&J only stamped/sold chips made by USPC and Burt.

My only suggestion is you might follow-up with a search of the Burt Co. order cards archive for a match to an order sold to C&J.

My best semi-educated guess is that they were stamped by Jack Todd on chips made by USPC. Unlikely that C&J (or Paulson) would have made an identical hot-stamp die as the one used on the Cleveland club chips.

The hub mold and diamond mold chips were both produced by USPC and later by Burt Co. after they bought the molds.

Thank you for mentioning that Jack Todd and C&J only stamped and sold chips made by the other two companies! I really hadn't understood the relationships between all five of those different companies before, but now it all makes perfect sense. I also never realized until now that CPC is basically the modern equivalent of Burt Company. From what I am seeing it appears that Jim Blanchard took over Burt Company in 1988 and renamed it Atlantic Standard Molding, and then David Spragg & David Sarles came along in December of 2013 to purchase these same assets and form CPC.

You had mentioned that I might try searching the Burt Co. order cards archive. Is this archive a resource that's available online? Or are those records just kept by the two aforementioned Davids, in which case I'd need to reach out to one of them?

 

[Bikshu]

There is a black chip and white chip, both diamond mold that looks just like your blue chip that are listed as UFC. See them at the link below.

http://chipguide.themogh.org/cg_chip2.php?id=UFDISO

Ahhh I love you for finding that! I tried looking through that site but the best match I could muster was the similar looking one with the Hub mold. But you are absolutely correct that mine is a perfect match to the two you found, so I'd have to imagine that they are all part of the same set. I'll also note that one of those chips was contributed to the Museum of Gaming History Chip Guide by Ed Hertel, who is apparently known as the "Chip Detective" and specializes in tracking down chips from illegal casinos and gambling halls.

All of you guys have been immensely helpful in allowing me to piece together the history of my chip... or at least to take a stab at doing so. If we combine the information that the three of you have provided then our current best guess is that these chips were originally made by USPC and then later hot stamped by Jack Todd and sold to some type of (probably Jewish) fraternal organization, social club, illegal casino, or gambling hall. And time-wise we are most likely looking at this having happened sometime between 1933-1947, which still perfectly coincides with the period that this "Star Club" illegal casino existed in Cleveland. So for the time being I am going to assume that this is indeed where my chip came from, in which case it's still right here in its hometown of the CLE all these many years later.

Thanks again for all of your help guys!

 

[billnict]

Ahhh I love you for finding that! I tried looking through that site but the best match I could muster was the similar looking one with the Hub mold. But you are absolutely correct that mine is a perfect match to the two you found, so I'd have to imagine that they are all part of the same set. I'll also note that one of those chips was contributed to the Museum of Gaming History Chip Guide by Ed Hertel, who is apparently known as the "Chip Detective" and specializes in tracking down chips from illegal casinos and gambling halls.

All of you guys have been immensely helpful in allowing me to piece together the history of my chip... or at least to take a stab at doing so. If we combine the information that the three of you have provided then our current best guess is that these chips were originally made by USPC and then later hot stamped by Jack Todd and sold to some type of (probably Jewish) fraternal organization, social club, illegal casino, or gambling hall. And time-wise we are most likely looking at this having happened sometime between 1933-1947, which still perfectly coincides with the period that this "Star Club" illegal casino existed in Cleveland. So for the time being I am going to assume that this is indeed where my chip came from, in which case it's still right here in its hometown of the CLE all these many years later.

Thanks again for all of your help guys!

Glad I could assist! Ed Hertel is the man when it comes to illegal chips...

 

[BGinGA]

I don't know the particulars, but many of the old Burt Co. order cards are accessible on or via the chipguide.com realm. Not a member there, so I can't help....