Question: Cup holder rings in rail

Raf

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Aaron,

Sorry I missed your post... been swamped. I didn't make a build thread.... Probably should have. I just used the countless other build threads on similar tables as reference. Didn't really think my table build added anything new.

What in particular are you wondering?
 

Aaron

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I'm looking to make exactly that rail for an existing table. I'll look through the posts again if there's already a thread that can help me get there.
 

codeman00

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This thread has been very helpful. I decided to update my grabby felt my folding poker table to speed cloth. When I took the rails off, I ripped the cheap vinyl and now I'm adding deeper cup holder and redoing the rails. My $50 project has turned into a $180 project. Thanks to everyone here that contributed to the thread...I'm going to try to add these rings under my new cup holders.
 
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codeman00

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I just finished re-felting my folding table and let's just say it was a bit of an adventure since it was my first time. Mine isn't as fancy as most of yours and I cut some corners..but since it's a folding table that I store vs. a full table in a dedicated poker room, I'm not sure it matters...especially to my poker group. It's much nicer now than the all of the tables we play on ;) A few comments and questions...
  1. The Foam. I used my stock half compressed 1/2" foam that was in the table and stacked it on top of some Joann super squishy half inch foam. So I probably have 3/4" to possibly 1" of very soft foam which is fine with me.
  2. The Rails part 1 - My poker table had precut/sown vinyl (that I ripped it taking it off), I had to cut 1/4" plywood rails to have something to staple the vinyl to.
  3. The Rails part 2 - I have no idea how you guys are able to have rails without excess vinyl left at the ends, even with super stretchy vinyl. Much respect for all of you. Maybe part of it was the soft foam that I used? Anyway, I folded the excess material over in 4 spots on each end to take up the excess. My friends will never know the difference. You can see the fold over in the picture. I spider cut the vinyl on the inside like I was supposed to but I guess I'm still missing something. Oh well. It will work fine for what I need.
The Cup Holders - This is where I need your help for those that have been there done that. I bought deep aluminum cupholders to replace the shallow plastic ones. As you can see, I haven't installed them yet. From top to bottom of the rail there is a layer of vinyl, then the stock foam with holes already precut, then the Joan soft foam, then the stock particle board with a gaping oversized hole in it...and then a thin layer of cheap vinyl that covers the particle board.

I did not fabricate cup holder rings like what was shown in this thread. (3) reasons...I didn't have the right size hole saw for the outer, I didn't have access to a drill press to do it right, and I was using squishy foam and not the thick foam that you guys use for the premium tables. That being said, I'm relying on the vinyl, foam and 1/4" rail with a hole cut to size to keep the cup holders from dropping too much. I know there will be some dropping because I didn't use rings...and I"m going to regret it I think. Oh...and my cup holders will have to be removed every time I fold my table up because the I installed deep cup holders. I don't want people to knock them out but the bottoms will be exposed. Not ideal...I know.
  1. How do I go about cutting my vinyl? I read above that I cut an X. If my cupholder is 3 3/8" diameter, how large should the X be? I will have the remove and insert these cupholders and I'm afraid the X will tear slowly until it can be seen. Or is there another method?
  2. I assume that I would then fold the X back and then cut a hole in the Joann foam? Or probably easier, I could cut the bottom cover vinyl and cut foam from the bottom.
  3. I assume too that the foam, vinyl etc will make the cupholder tight enough that it will stay put. If anyone has been there done that, can you give me some advice on the best non-ring cupholder installation method?
IMG_3044.JPG
 

72o

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I just finished re-felting my folding table and let's just say it was a bit of an adventure since it was my first time. Mine isn't as fancy as most of yours and I cut some corners..but since it's a folding table that I store vs. a full table in a dedicated poker room, I'm not sure it matters...especially to my poker group. It's much nicer now than the all of the tables we play on ;) A few comments and questions...
  1. The Foam. I used my stock half compressed 1/2" foam that was in the table and stacked it on top of some Joann super squishy half inch foam. So I probably have 3/4" to possibly 1" of very soft foam which is fine with me.
  2. The Rails part 1 - My poker table had precut/sown vinyl (that I ripped it taking it off), I had to cut 1/4" plywood rails to have something to staple the vinyl to.
  3. The Rails part 2 - I have no idea how you guys are able to have rails without excess vinyl left at the ends, even with super stretchy vinyl. Much respect for all of you. Maybe part of it was the soft foam that I used? Anyway, I folded the excess material over in 4 spots on each end to take up the excess. My friends will never know the difference. You can see the fold over in the picture. I spider cut the vinyl on the inside like I was supposed to but I guess I'm still missing something. Oh well. It will work fine for what I need.
The Cup Holders - This is where I need your help for those that have been there done that. I bought deep aluminum cupholders to replace the shallow plastic ones. As you can see, I haven't installed them yet. From top to bottom of the rail there is a layer of vinyl, then the stock foam with holes already precut, then the Joan soft foam, then the stock particle board with a gaping oversized hole in it...and then a thin layer of cheap vinyl that covers the particle board.

I did not fabricate cup holder rings like what was shown in this thread. (3) reasons...I didn't have the right size hole saw for the outer, I didn't have access to a drill press to do it right, and I was using squishy foam and not the thick foam that you guys use for the premium tables. That being said, I'm relying on the vinyl, foam and 1/4" rail with a hole cut to size to keep the cup holders from dropping too much. I know there will be some dropping because I didn't use rings...and I"m going to regret it I think. Oh...and my cup holders will have to be removed every time I fold my table up because the I installed deep cup holders. I don't want people to knock them out but the bottoms will be exposed. Not ideal...I know.
  1. How do I go about cutting my vinyl? I read above that I cut an X. If my cupholder is 3 3/8" diameter, how large should the X be? I will have the remove and insert these cupholders and I'm afraid the X will tear slowly until it can be seen. Or is there another method?
  2. I assume that I would then fold the X back and then cut a hole in the Joann foam? Or probably easier, I could cut the bottom cover vinyl and cut foam from the bottom.
  3. I assume too that the foam, vinyl etc will make the cupholder tight enough that it will stay put. If anyone has been there done that, can you give me some advice on the best non-ring cupholder installation method?
View attachment 88354
Doesn't solve everything but maybe?

http://texaspokersupply.com/store/cup-holder-upholstery-ring/
 

codeman00

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Yeah it would...except my table is already together. I had planned to cut my own rings this weekend but that didn't work out. After reading the descriptions of the ring its just a matter of time before the cup holder pulls through the vinyl. Maybe I can order these rings cut them in half and glue them in from the bottom?

I still need help with how big the X's should be for these cupholders. It seems like cutting a circle hole instead would prevent future tearing.
 

Raf

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Codeman,

To cut the vinyl for the cup holder spots, I recommend doing more of an 8-slit star vs just an X. Or depending on description, you could call it a double X cut. You first do an X (or cross +).... Then cut slits at every V shape (quarters).... Doing that 4 times will give you 8ths.

As to how far you should cut... It's more of a feel, eye-gauge sort of thing... No real exact measurement.... But if I had to guess, I'd say don't cut closer than say 3/16s from the inside rim of the cup holder hole.

I'm attaching a pic to help illustrate.... Hope it does that for you.

 
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codeman00

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Codeman,

To cut the vinyl for the cup holder spots, I recommend doing more of an 8-slit star vs just an X. Or depending on description, you could call it a double X cut. You first do an X (or cross +).... Then cut slits at every V shape (quarters).... Doing that 4 times will give you 8ths.

As to how far you should cut... It's more of a feel, eye-gauge sort of thing... No real exact measurement.... But if I had to guess, I'd say don't cut closer than say 3/16s from the inside rim of the cup holder hole.

I'm attaching a pic to help illustrate.... Hope it does that for you.

That's perfect. Thanks!

And that also tells me that if I don't either put in the rings or support the bottom of the cup holder somehow, the material is going to tear eventually until it can be seen outside the cup holder ring. Hmmm.
 

Raf

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FWIW....I made a dummy end of a rail (about 18" piece), with the whole 9 of materials (foam, vinyl, cup holder inserted, etc)...to test out. Did some damage testing, per se... And it seems as though the whisper vinyl is very strong. I tried ripping those slits further by hand and by moving the cup holder inside the vinyl back and forth and all around, attempting to gouge a larger hole... It held up just fine. All while the testing is unrealistic...far more aggressive than real world conditions, mind you.

I think as long as you give it that 3/16s of vinyl from the inside edge of the cup holder hole.... you'll be just fine.

The dip in the foam... Now that's a totally different matter altogether. That's where the rings help the lip of the cup holder rest on, preventing the foam from compressing at that spot through the years. I did use the rings on a normal table (no raised rail) as the cup holders poke out through the bottom of the rail and table.

On the raised rail... instead of using the rings...i simply threw in the hole-saw cut out puck from the hole I made for the cup holder.... same effect. That puck prevents the bottom of the cup holder to dip any further. Perhaps not as professional and rather lazy.... but it gets the job done. Making those rings, for me personally, wasn't as easy as I expected and thus went this route on the raised rail table.


Side by side.... Ring next to cup holder sitting in hole with the cut out puck under it.... same elevation, wouldn't you say? The raised rail allows enough height where the puck sits on the playing surface




A shot of throwing the cut-out puck into the hole for support. Lessens the chances of major foam dip at rim of cup holder.





Puck dropped in. Could be fastened in with small screws. I didn't screw it down as I plan on refelting with a custom cloth when the time comes. Even with the custom cloth in place, I don't see myself screwing those pucks down. They don't rattle. The cup holders are really snug with the vinyl slits sitting in the hole and my players have no need to be talking cup holders out so those pucks are in essence out of sight, out of mind.




Hope that helps
 
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codeman00

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Thanks for the detailed explanation. After reading that, I'm still on the fence about putting those rings in my table or not. I have the "normal table" as you would say. I have no personal issue with the cup holders sinking but I do have an issue if it exposes the vinyl cut underneath. I bought the super stretchy expensive vinyl...so my guess is that it will be strong too and not tear further. But will what will happen when the large Jack & Coke's are stack in it time after time. I hate to spend more money on a folding table but it seems like I might as well finish it right. If I cut the vinyl from the bottom before cutting the top, I could cut the wood rings in half and glue them in from the bottom. After they are glued in, I can make the spider web cuts in the top and insert the cup holders.

I just checked the posted ring website and it will be about $55 more (10 rings) to finish this out. Ugh. I could have bought a new table for the cost of replacing the felt on a freakin folding table. I'm still on the fence of just leaving it as is and hope it lasts a few years...right now we rotate our home game so it's probably only going to be played on 3-4 times a year anyway. Maybe I should just roll the dice here and leave it as is.
 

codeman00

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Raf,

Thanks a ton for your help. I ended up biting the bullet and ordering the cup holder rings. Since my rails were already upholstered, I had to put them in the long way... I ended up cutting them into 3 pieces, inserting them from the bottom and c-clamping them in place with Titebond Quick & Thick Multi-Surface Glue. Like I said, I did it the long way but it worked fine. I'm now ready to play with deep cupholders!
 

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honkydevil

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cut the holes to the exact size of the cup holders so that it's a very snug fit
Do you allow any extra size for the rail vinyl or do you just cut it back so it doesn't get in between the cup holder and wood? I'm assuming you cut the excess out of the way but thought I'd ask. I have a circle jig, not CNC, but would hope I could do the same idea.
 

T_Chan

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I cut the vinyl back so that there isn't any vinyl between the cup holder and the plywood.
 

codeman00

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I left the slivers of vinyl and left them in the hole to take up the slight gap between the hole saw hole and the cup holder. It actually worked well in my case and allows the cupholder to fit tightly while still allowing the cup holder to be removed if needed.
 

Stylin

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I cut the vinyl back so that there isn't any vinyl between the cup holder and the plywood.
If we all had your problems Tony. Someday I'd like to get on your level lol. Without the use of a CNC router table, you'll be using hole saws. This typically leaves plenty of room for the extra vinyl.
 

T_Chan

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With a hole saw, yes there's space left for vinyl. With a circle jig, though I don't know what type of circle jig honkydevil is using, you can get to the exact size.

I used to do that pre-CNC. I stopped using hole saws early on because I didn't like how the holes were always too big.
 

T_Chan

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We make them as well. Shoot me a PM with how many you need and your shipping address, I'll get you a quote.
 

Jonny Tre

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Found what I think is an easier way to make these with hole saws. Place ply #! (ring) on top of scrap ply #2. Trace out your your inner and outer circle. Insert 3 wood screws inside the inner circle and into both pieces of ply. Place 2 ore wood screws outside the outer circle to secure the entire setup. Use larger hole saw to cut out full dimension. Now switch to smaller hole saw to cut out middle section. Remove wood screws. Done.
IMG_1775.jpg
 

72o

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Yup that's exactly what I did and worked perfectly...and really quick too.
 

Aaron

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Thanks T_Chan for your input. Yours and everyone else that's shared you all's experiences through the years have been invaluable in helping myself and tons others in building.

Still not completely finished, missing a custom art vinyl for the inner riser & adding the mini rail at the dealer spot... But she still looks good as is. Didn't go with custom cloth for now. Wanted to build first, get the exact dimensions and win some money to order a custom cloth. Plus, I haven't completely settled on a final design so the terra cotta velvet speed cloth will have to do for the time being.

Do you remember where you got the defuser?
 
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