Tourney Please comment on my tourney structure (1 Viewer)

[CaMue]

Hey there, I´m new to this forum and I´m curious what you think about my tourney structure.
I host a semi regular low-buy-in-tournament (NLH). For up to 9 players. Once a year there´s a big 18 player 2 table tournament. The people are used to my chips (no denoms, colors always the same, don´t want to change that).
I use
15xT1000
12xT5000
5xT25000
giving T200000 a starting stack (=100BB)

I want to change the structure to avoid 100% jumps while maintaining the high denom chips for sake of consistency. I want the tournament to to take roughly 5h. This is what I came up with for the 8-9 player rebuy tournament:


SB BB Duration (min)
1 1000 2000 30
2 2000 3000 30
3 2000 4000 30
End of rebuy
4 3000 6000 30
5 5000 10k 30
6 7000 15k 30
7 12k 25k 30
break and color up (1000)
8 20k 40k 25
9 30k 60k 25
10 50k 100k 25
11 75k 150k 25
break and color up (5000)
12 125k 250k 25
13 200k 400k 25

The tournament should end no later than L10 (estimated with some formulas from this forum) which would be roughly 5h.
I had to add some unconventional Levels such as 2000/3000 and 12k/25k to avoid the 2x jumps. Also what is your opinion on decreasing level duration when tournament gets more short handed.
For the 18 player Tournament I would use the same structure, maybe slightly changing the level duration.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Cheers

CaMue

 

[andy699669]

20 Minutes Stage 1-7, 18 Minutes Stage 8+
1,000/2,000
1,000/3,000
2,000/4,000
3,000/6,000
4,000/8,000
6,000/12,000
8,000/16,000
Pit Stop - Colour-up 1,000s to 25,000
10,000/20,000
15,000/30,000
20,000/40,000
30,000/60,000
40,000/80,000 - 9UP x 200,000 End, 3H 50M + Breaks
Pit Stop - Colour-up 5,000s to 100,000
50,000/100,000
75,000/150,000
100,000/200,000 - 18UP x 200,000 End 4H 44M + Breaks
150,000/300,000

You can reduce the times by 2 minutes after the 1st Pit Stop.

Expected Endgame Phase stacks: 100x 25,000 + 11x 100,000.

 

[Anthony Martino]

@BGinGA is the man when it comes to this stuff

 

[CaMue]

Thanks for your comments, your structure looks fine. Thanks

 

[Gobbs]

Please take this as the constructive criticism that it is intended to be and not bashing.

I’m not a big fan of your structure, especially the later rounds. The jumps from Level 7 on are just way too big. I think you have two major problems, neither of which you are going to want to fix.

1) You want 30 minute blind levels and big stacks, plus rebuys, but want it over in 5 hours. This is not possible without really jumping up the blinds like you did. You’d have a much smoother tournament if you tightened up the blind structure (33-50 percent increases) and shortened the time per level to 20 minutes.

2) You are a bit stuck with the big denominations. For example, ideally, from 1000/2000, you’d move to 1500/3000, but you can’t do that. Also, when you get past 8000/16000, the jumps can’t help but get awkward. You need to go something like 11000/22000 and then 15000/30000. That means you have to leave your lowest denomination on the table a long time. I know you don’t want to change, but I’d really suggest getting more versatile denominations.

Sorry if this sounds harsh. I certainly don’t mean it to be. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[JustinInMN]

So if your target is 5 hours, you can really only play 10 levels at 30 mins each. Or do something like 6 levels at 30 mins and 5 levels at 25 minutes and not even counting breaks.

So you are limited in what your structure can be without doubles. I think you did the best you could with the parameters you set.

If you want to be even smoother than I agree with @Gobbs that something has to give. Level times, starting stacks, or increasing the overall tournament length.

I like @andy699669 's suggestion if you are looking for a smoother way with shorter levels.

But I can't say which is really better. If you compare side by side you get basically the same place in 5 hours.

Good luck.

 

[CaMue]

Thanks for the comments, very helpful. I smoothed out the structure according to Andy´s suggestion, only exchanging 4000/8000 ,6000/12000 8000/16000 with 5000/10000 and 7000/15000 giving me the only 1,66x jumps. I also reduced the duration to finish in time. I havily think of throwing in some t500 chips. You´re right, the denoms i chose years ago limit me. Another way would be to start at 2000/4000 at first level and giving everybody 400k in chips. The4n I would throw in 100k chips. Have to check if I have enough chips for that.

This is the structure I have in mind after andys suggestion without changing the denoms.:

1000 2000
1000 3000
2000 4000
3000 6000
5000 10000
7000 15000
10000 20000
15000 30000
20000 40000
30000 60000
40000 80000
50000 100000
75000 150000
100000 200000
150000 300000
200000 400000
300000 600000

alternative would be (if I find enough chips):

400k starting stack

2000 4000
3000 6000
5000 10000 or even 4000/ 8000 and 6000/12000 and 8000/16000 instead 5k/10k and 7k/15k
7000 15000
10000 20000
15000 30000
20000 40000
30000 60000
40000 80000
50000 100000
75000 150000
100000 200000
150000 300000
200000 400000
300000 600000

If the formula players*chips*0,05="BB when tournament finishes" is correct I can figure out how long the levels should be. I don´t mind having to throw in some extra denoms, but the base (1000, 5000, 25000) should stay for consistency with my regulars.

For the 200k version I would need the t500 chips only for one level, so 2-4 of those in the starting stack should be fine, right? And the 400k version 2 t100k chips should be enough.

Thanks again, appreciate your comments

 

[JustinInMN]

I havily think of throwing in some t500 chips.

For the 200k version I would need the t500 chips only for one level

Right on the second count. Since it's one level I wouldn't worry about 1000-3000 versus 1500-3000 too much. I'd keep it as you have it.

If the formula players*chips*0,05="BB when tournament finishes" is correct I can figure out how long the levels should be.

Yup so assuming no rebuys 18 * T200k /20 is about 180k for the big blind, or between levels 14-15.

If a 50% rebuy rate 27 * t200 / 20 is about 270k bb or between levels 15-16.

16 levels * 18 mins = 4h48 plus breaks.
16 levels * 20 mins = 5h20 plus breaks.

Think your butter zone is in this area.

Good luck.

 

[trivialpiper]

besides the big jumps in the blinds structure, starting with only 100BB's, and then only 67 after the first level seems like it would turn into a shovefest pretty quickly. I usually start off with $15K stacks in a 25/50 20 minute structure, and with 8 guys it goes between 4.5 and 5 hours. Good luck!

 

[BGinGA]

Best approach for a balanced 9-player 100K stack (100bb) T1000-base event with 30-minute levels is to use a relatively aggressive blind structure. The structure below typically runs 4:15-4:45 plus breaks, with all increases ranging from 50% to 67% (averaging 59%).

100bb / 30-minute levels / 59% increases
lvl sb bb
L1 1000 2000
L2 2000 3000
L3 3000 5000
L4 4000 8000
L5 6000 12000
remove T1000 chips
L6 10000 20000
L7 15000 30000
L8 25000 50000
L9 40000 80000 ** EOT
L10 60000 120000
L11 100000 200000

This is similar in basic design thought to the structure you first posted in the OP, although it uses 30-minute levels throughout (instead of dropping to 25-minutes at L8), and it is more consistent with a much narrower range of increase sizes (your structure's increases range from 20% to 68%, which is quite a large spread).

The second structure you listed (post #7) typically finishes in under 5 hours if using 25-minute levels throughout, although the blind increases still cover a pretty wide range of 25%-67%, averaging 44%.

Alternatively, you can use a slightly less aggressive structure (mostly 33%-50% increases, averaging 40%), but it requires shorter 23-minute blind level times to accomplish your same 5-hour total time target:

100bb / 23-minute levels / 40% increases
lvl sb bb
L1 1000 2000
L2 1000 3000
L3 2000 4000
L4 3000 6000
L5 3000 8000
L6 6000 12000
L7 8000 16000
remove T1000 chips
L8 10000 20000
L9 15000 30000
L10 20000 40000
L11 30000 60000
L12 40000 80000 ** EOT
L13 60000 120000
L14 80000 160000
L15 100000 200000

 

[CaMue]

Thanks again, I made an Excel sheet to go through your numbers. Very helpful. I think I now know the parameters I can play with and the pros and cons of the changes I can make. Now I have to decide . By the way, the people I play with don´t care too much about this stuff. A slightly more aggressive structure should give more rebuys, which everybody likes. I think I take the structure I posted in #7. The big range of increases will not be noticed by anyone but it gives me the chances to color up more easily and reduces the weird levels where BB is not twice SB to only 2 levels. In the long run maybe I will introduce "normal" denominations and a standard structure. Thanks to everybody.

 

[Gobbs]

By the way, the people I play with don´t care too much about this stuff.

Just a word of warning, I have found that inexperienced players don't care too much about this stuff until they realize how it is affecting them. Then, all of a sudden, they care a lot. When you hear people saying "The big blind is 15000 already?",they are catching on to the huge increases and how it should be affecting their play and they won't like the 150% jump in just two levels.

 

[nostalgiccat]

Are you doing antes? I change my structures depending on if there's an ante. If there is one, you can usually increase level times and still fit within schedules as M will be ~ 30% lower.

 

[CaMue]

No, I don´t do antes. Very inexperienced playerpool. Pace is already very slow.