Tourney Other than Holdem (1 Viewer)

[Poker Zombie]

I've been running Holdem tournaments for 15+ years now. Solid records for 11 of them. I know the formula for ending a holdem tourney (Chips in Play/20=BB at last level).
I used this same formula successfully in a number of Crazy Pineapple Tournaments.

My group now is very interested in Omaha. Does the formula remain the same?

Since I started the thread, I'd also like to hear formulas for other games as well. I already know that certain split-pot games can really foul up a tournament.

Tagging @BGinGA because It's BGinGA

Note to Dave: I still won't use a 25/75 level.

 

[Jamaquack27]

Man, I'm only 2 tournaments in to my first league season. I can't wait to build up 11 years of records. Do you mind me asking what type of records you keep for each night? Thanks

 

[detroitdad]

Man, I'm only 2 tournaments in to my first league season. I can't wait to build up 11 years of records. Do you mind me asking what type of records you keep for each night? Thanks

He might not have enough time in the day to list everything he keeps records of lol. Seriously, when I was at his place he pulled up the spreadsheets. It was fricken crazy.

 

[Legend5555]

So much talk about leagues. I'm lucky if I can get the half the same people to show up every other week.

 

[BGinGA]

I've been running Holdem tournaments for 15+ years now. Solid records for 11 of them. I know the formula for ending a holdem tourney (Chips in Play/20=BB at last level).
I used this same formula successfully in a number of Crazy Pineapple Tournaments.

My group now is very interested in Omaha. Does the formula remain the same?

Since I started the thread, I'd also like to hear formulas for other games as well. I already know that certain split-pot games can really foul up a tournament.

Tagging @BGinGA because It's BGinGA

Note to Dave: I still won't use a 25/75 level.

PLO will typically finish one or two levels sooner than a comparable NLHE event -- 30-40 total BBs is a good barometer to use, depending on the skill level. Novices typically take longer, due to slower speed of play and unwillingness to raise/re-raise in key spots. Start at 30BB, and scale it back to 40BB as experience/skill increases. Of course, a group of NLHE players with a couple of PLO sharks swimming around in the pool will often get crushed by overvaluing and overplaying their hands, and sometimes cut the total tournament length in half.

Split-pot games are another animal altogether. Most tournaments will complete within +/- one level of a comparable NLHE event, but I've had several go an extra hour or more before somebody manages to scoop back-to-back to finish it. These events never run short.

Re: 25/75 -- I advise ditching T25 chips altogether for pot-limit tournaments, especially for newbies

 

[Poker Zombie]

I advise ditching T25 chips altogether for pot-limit tournaments, especially for newbies

This is undeniably wise advice.

 

[Legend5555]

This is undeniably wise advice.

I've ditched them for NLHE too now that I use BB Ante.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Man, I'm only 2 tournaments in to my first league season. I can't wait to build up 11 years of records. Do you mind me asking what type of records you keep for each night? Thanks

The excel spreadsheet I use has 35 tabs. We track everything from player contributions (food, dealing, clean-up, player invites, etc) for Hall of Fame consideration, to finishing position, who knocked out who, starting tables, position, In the money runs, how players perform with a close friend or spouse at their table, events attended, consecutive events attended....

It's a little reminiscent of A Beautiful Mind. But I have derived a tons of information from them including different blind structures, identifying possible "soft play", and so much more.

 

[Jonesey07]

The excel spreadsheet I use has 35 tabs. We track everything from player contributions (food, dealing, clean-up, player invites, etc) for Hall of Fame consideration, to finishing position, who knocked out who, starting tables, position, In the money runs, how players perform with a close friend or spouse at their table, events attended, consecutive events attended....

It's a little reminiscent of A Beautiful Mind. But I have derived a tons of information from them including different blind structures, identifying possible "soft play", and so much more.

Feel free to post any of my info to share with the class if you feel the need.

 

[Poker Zombie]

If I remember I'll post it tomorrow - today I'm stuck at work.

 

[APatHand]

The excel spreadsheet I use has 35 tabs. We track everything from player contributions (food, dealing, clean-up, player invites, etc) for Hall of Fame consideration, to finishing position, who knocked out who, starting tables, position, In the money runs, how players perform with a close friend or spouse at their table, events attended, consecutive events attended....

It's a little reminiscent of A Beautiful Mind. But I have derived a tons of information from them including different blind structures, identifying possible "soft play", and so much more.

That isn't record keeping, that's a deeply documented psychological issue.

 

[bsdunbar1]

for Hall of Fame consideration

What is your criteria for HOF?

 

[Gobbs]

The excel spreadsheet I use has 35 tabs. We track everything from player contributions (food, dealing, clean-up, player invites, etc) for Hall of Fame consideration, to finishing position, who knocked out who, starting tables, position, In the money runs, how players perform with a close friend or spouse at their table, events attended, consecutive events attended....

It's a little reminiscent of A Beautiful Mind. But I have derived a tons of information from them including different blind structures, identifying possible "soft play", and so much more.

I think I have a new hero.

 

[Mr Winberg]

The excel spreadsheet I use has 35 tabs. We track everything from player contributions (food, dealing, clean-up, player invites, etc) for Hall of Fame consideration, to finishing position, who knocked out who, starting tables, position, In the money runs, how players perform with a close friend or spouse at their table, events attended, consecutive events attended....

It's a little reminiscent of A Beautiful Mind. But I have derived a tons of information from them including different blind structures, identifying possible "soft play", and so much more.

Yeah, well I sometimes remember to post the ITM finishers in our facebook group!

 

[Poker Zombie]

What is your criteria for HOF?

Short answer: Make the game better or play extremely well.

Spoiler: Long Answer

Considerations are broken down into 3 sections; Achievements, Player of the Year Points, and Assists.

Achievements include:

• Consecutive events (AKA the Iron Zombie)
• % of events attended since your first event
• Back to back wins
• % of events cashed
• Lifetime wins
• % of events won
• Number of Knockouts
• Knockouts per buy-in
• Finish in the top 8 in the player of the year standings
• Winning a Grand Slam (4+ consecutive cashes on 4 different chipsets (each set uses a different blind structure).
• Inviting quality players
• Other outstanding achievements (i.e. one player flew in from Buffalo to attend a game)
• Most Improved Player credit
• Rookie of the Year credit

Each achievement is given a score and added to the spreadsheet.

Player of the Year Points

This one is easy. It's the lifetime total of the PotY points a player has earned.

Assists Include:

• Attending a difficult game (like during the great "Iceageddon" snowstorm. We never cancel events, so if you're degen enough to come, we will pitch the cards.
• On time arrival
• Assisting color-ups (we added this one because of @Jonesey07 )
• Sticking around after elimination
• Assisting with clean-up
• Dealing after elimination
• Bringing food
• Miscellaneous - because sometimes, someone does something and we just go "wow" (not always good).

Each assist is given a score and added to the spreadsheet.

Then there is a formula to equally weight each section. That gives each player their total score. The top 8 make "the Long List". @Mrs Poker Zombie and I then deliberate and discuss. Pour over other records, and narrow the list down to 3 - the "Short List".

The players with the top 8 attendance numbers are given a share of 50 total votes (based on attendance (more games, more votes), if they are already in the HoF (HoF members get more votes), and if they have a personal relationship with the nominee (1/2 as many votes). Mrs Zombie and I also get fewer votes, because we selected the Short List.

Winner gets their likeness (in cartoon Zombie form) on 10 chips in the HoF set, the #2 set in rotation, a wine and cheese reception for the photo-shoot (if done on a non-event day), and are the Guest of Honor during the HoF event. I am also hoping to get custom card cappers, but need someone to run a GB for a Matsui set with a 44mm gold chip.

The Hall of Fame is limited to only 8% of all our players. At this time we have had 112 players, so we will have just 8 members (until player #113 shows up). Five have already been admitted, and voting for #6 happens next month.

 

[Jonesey07]

Short answer: Make the game better or play extremely well.

Spoiler: Long Answer

Considerations are broken down into 3 sections; Achievements, Player of the Year Points, and Assists.

Achievements include:

• Consecutive events (AKA the Iron Zombie)
• % of events attended since your first event
• Back to back wins
• % of events cashed
• Lifetime wins
• % of events won
• Number of Knockouts
• Knockouts per buy-in
• Finish in the top 8 in the player of the year standings
• Winning a Grand Slam (4+ consecutive cashes on 4 different chipsets (each set uses a different blind structure).
• Inviting quality players
• Other outstanding achievements (i.e. one player flew in from Buffalo to attend a game)
• Most Improved Player credit
• Rookie of the Year credit

Each achievement is given a score and added to the spreadsheet.

Player of the Year Points

This one is easy. It's the lifetime total of the PotY points a player has earned.

Assists Include:

• Attending a difficult game (like during the great "Iceageddon" snowstorm. We never cancel events, so if you're degen enough to come, we will pitch the cards.
• On time arrival
• Assisting color-ups (we added this one because of @Jonesey07 )
• Sticking around after elimination
• Assisting with clean-up
• Dealing after elimination
• Bringing food
• Miscellaneous - because sometimes, someone does something and we just go "wow" (not always good).

Each assist is given a score and added to the spreadsheet.

Then there is a formula to equally weight each section. That gives each player their total score. The top 8 make "the Long List". @Mrs Poker Zombie and I then deliberate and discuss. Pour over other records, and narrow the list down to 3 - the "Short List".

The players with the top 8 attendance numbers are given a share of 50 total votes (based on attendance (more games, more votes), if they are already in the HoF (HoF members get more votes), and if they have a personal relationship with the nominee (1/2 as many votes). Mrs Zombie and I also get fewer votes, because we selected the Short List.

Winner gets their likeness (in cartoon Zombie form) on 10 chips in the HoF set, the #2 set in rotation, a wine and cheese reception for the photo-shoot (if done on a non-event day), and are the Guest of Honor during the HoF event. I am also hoping to get custom card cappers, but need someone to run a GB for a Matsui set with a 44mm gold chip.

The Hall of Fame is limited to only 8% of all our players. At this time we have had 112 players, so we will have just 8 members (until player #113 shows up). Five have already been admitted, and voting for #6 happens next month.

AKA I need to be a better poker player to get in!

I do enjoy the zombie games immensely however!! One day they will allow a guest set.. maybe. haha!

 

[Poker Zombie]

Feel free to post any of my info to share with the class if you feel the need.

I was going to post your records, but decided to save you the embarrassment

...actually, Mrs Zombie's was more comprehensive due to more games, so I'll post that one instead.

We publish a random player's stats each month (when I remember). This is what they look like...

It's pretty streamlined, because a full report would look like something out of the MLB. Batting Avg vs left-handed pitchers on the 3rd game in the series? Yeah, we got that...

 

[Jonesey07]

I will win an event.. eventually. Maybe. I hope.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I will win an event.. eventually. Maybe. I hope.

I guess nobody told you...

You had the highest profit at the cash game, so were awarded 1st place points (28).

Only $68, but a win is a win.

 

[bsdunbar1]

I was going to post your records, but decided to save you the embarrassment

...actually, Mrs Zombie's was more comprehensive due to more games, so I'll post that one instead.

We publish a random player's stats each month (when I remember). This is what they look like...
View attachment 327599

View attachment 327601

It's pretty streamlined, because a full report would look like something out of the MLB. Batting Avg vs left-handed pitchers on the 3rd game in the series? Yeah, we got that...

I know you said you load all the data into excel, do you load the data manually or do you have an app that actually keeps track of it all automatically as the game progresses?

I have a data set that I keep track of for every player that has ever played (league games anyways) and have an app that keeps track of a lot of the basics but I don't know any other way than to load it all manually into Excel to get specifically what I want.

Any way you care to share your 35 tab spreadsheet for research/idea purposes?? (Names removed of course so @Jonesey07 doesn't get embarrassed)
My guys think I am a nerd for what I keep track of and you are many levels above what I have.
100% ok if you say no.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I know you said you load all the data into excel, do you load the data manually or do you have an app that actually keeps track of it all automatically as the game progresses?

I have a data set that I keep track of for every player that has ever played (league games anyways) and have an app that keeps track of a lot of the basics but I don't know any other way than to load it all manually into Excel to get specifically what I want.

Any way you care to share your 35 tab spreadsheet for research/idea purposes?? (Names removed of course so @Jonesey07 doesn't get embarrassed)
My guys think I am a nerd for what I keep track of and you are many levels above what I have.
100% ok if you say no.

Everything is entered manually. Seat assignments are made prior to the game, Knockouts are recorded on paper and reviewed before being entered, and everything else is recorded from memory the night of the event. We once used a Go-Pro type camera to try to record even more information (hands per hour, stack sizes per level, hands won by position), but it was insufficient.

I'll see if I can drop a redacted copy into Dropbox for public sharing, but unless you are an Excel master or as deranged as I am, it will be pretty meaningless.

 

[bsdunbar1]

^THAT is a lot to track manually while hosting!!
Hats off to you running around like a crazy man while trying to play.

It definitely affects my game sometimes trying to keep up with Rebuys/AddOns/KnockOuts/TableBalancing/Etc during play, let alone trying to track all the other details.
Bucket list item added - Play in A Zombie tournament event.

 

[Jonesey07]

^THAT is a lot to track manually while hosting!!
Hats off to you running around like a crazy man while trying to play.

It definitely affects my game sometimes trying to keep up with Rebuys/AddOns/KnockOuts/TableBalancing/Etc during play, let alone trying to track all the other details.
Bucket list item added - Play in A Zombie tournament event.

You won't regret it, that's for sure!

 

[Jonesey07]

I guess nobody told you...

You had the highest profit at the cash game, so were awarded 1st place points (28).

Only $68, but a win is a win.

Put it on the board!

I slept like a baby that night after crushing 3 extra strength tylenol when I got home!

 

[Poker Zombie]

^THAT is a lot to track manually while hosting!!
Hats off to you running around like a crazy man while trying to play.

It definitely affects my game sometimes trying to keep up with Rebuys/AddOns/KnockOuts/TableBalancing/Etc during play, let alone trying to track all the other details.
Bucket list item added - Play in A Zombie tournament event.

It's not that difficult with 2 people, and an entire room that yells "Knockout". A lot of the work is derivative, so that helps.

I'm unable to redact the file. Trying to change "Anthony" to "Player 7" on dozens of tabs is more work than is reasonable. Just deleting names breaks formulas between pages.

So I will post the whole thing for a limited time only. Fortunately, I have avoided last names for the most part, so... plausible deniability to those who wish to remain innocent.

I think Dropbox messes up the formatting a bit, deal with it.

All color formatting means something - at least to me, but it is important.

File comes down later this afternoon, lest I forget.

Zombie Poker Club Records Link had been removed

Music to listen to when looking at the spreadsheet:

 

[Jonesey07]

It's not that difficult with 2 people, and an entire room that yells "Knockout". A lot of the work is derivative, so that helps.

I'm unable to redact the file. Trying to change "Anthony" to "Player 7" on dozens of tabs is more work than is reasonable. Just deleting names breaks formulas between pages.

So I will post the whole thing for a limited time only. Fortunately, I have avoided last names for the most part, so... plausible deniability to those who wish to remain innocent.

I think Dropbox messes up the formatting a bit, deal with it.

All color formatting means something - at least to me, but it is important.

File comes down later this afternoon, lest I forget.

Zombie Poker Club Records

Music to listen to when looking at the spreadsheet:

Lucky I can't load dropbox at work!!

 

[Poker Zombie]

I can always bring up the spreadsheet pre-event. Most the info is not private, it just takes some explaining.